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MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

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MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Old 07-17-2008, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

DAnny, the cracks are developing because that area between the sponsons has little or no flex at all. I saw a few Carolina skiff catamarans do this exact same thing you are talking of. if the boat starts to pound, then the sponsons will flex inward or outward. The result is a crack forming in the area where the sponsons connects to the underhull. Does not take long to spread once it begins. Have seen 3 Prokats, a GB, and 2 or 3 carolina skiff cats do this.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Beside the OP. Doghouse2, yakquack, ras315 has confirmed that such problem do exist among cats.
Even the undestructible WC isn't immuned.
Give the OP a chance to show us some proof.



3 month at the factory and still no fix. WTF. It only take ~30 days to built one. Why does it take 90+ days to fix? This is WC factory - is it not?
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Had a 27TE that was all cracked up in the tunnel. Also a 24 that sat in the water for one summer properly prepped and pulled it in the fall only to find a milloin blisters on the bottoms.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Looks like more skeletons is coming out of the closet.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Harry is right there is no join as it is a 2 piece construction boat if it were a 3 piece like Rennisance you would have alot more structural integrity This is because it would have been joined in the most stressful area like a truss you would see in a building There is a reason why older 33's had stress cracks Care to tell us where they were famous for cracking Harry
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

The 3 piece design is not necessarily any stronger than the 2 piece hull of a World Cat...don't believe all the hype you read on teh internet or in sales brochures. FWIW, the Worldcat IS joined between the deck and hull by a massive stringer grid that is bonded to the hull and liner...in just the same way as a Renaissance cat.

The place where the Ren is considered by some to be a better system is where the deck, gunwale cap, and liner join under the gunwale cap...it is bonded and through bolted instead of bonded and screwed together with the screws being secured into a backing piece. Having said that, modern bonding agents used in boat construction are VERY strong and I have yet to see a single broke screw on my hull (something very common on screwed and glued ghulls in the past). BTW, the screws are used primarily to hold the deck and hull together during the bonding process. Those used by WorldCat are epoxy tipped so as to also bond with the hull, deck, and backing plate once installed...effectively through bolted but with a glue nut instead of a steel nut.

My WC33 is hull #5 and is thus one of the oldest out there. It has no fiberglass cracks, and only minor gelcoat spider cracks at the extreme inside corner of the tuna door, outside the transom, where the door meets the floor. I've been on literally dozens of 33s and have yet to see any with any worse spider cracks than mine, and many with no spider cracking at all. It has been run hard enough to tear the metal mounting tabs where the tower legs bolt to the front of the console, which is to say very hard. That was done on a trip where forecast 5' seas morphed into 7-8' seas.

Finally, to my knowledge, the only difference between 33 hulls from #1 to present is that 1. the cabin liner has been lightened, 2. they added a port light on each side of the cabin, and 3. the aftmost part of the deck between the livewells was flattened out and drains installed to aid in keeping the rearmost part of the deck dry...my older design deck traps about 1 quart of water between the livewells when on plane.

Harry
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Harry Brosofsky - 7/18/2008 4:23 PM

The 3 piece design is not necessarily any stronger than the 2 piece hull of a World Cat...don't believe all the hype you read on teh internet or in sales brochures. FWIW, the Worldcat IS joined between the deck and hull by a massive stringer grid that is bonded to the hull and liner...in just the same way as a Renaissance cat.

The place where the Ren is considered by some to be a better system is where the deck, gunwale cap, and liner join under the gunwale cap...it is bonded and through bolted instead of bonded and screwed together with the screws being secured into a backing piece. Having said that, modern bonding agents used in boat construction are VERY strong and I have yet to see a single broke screw on my hull (something very common on screwed and glued ghulls in the past). BTW, the screws are used primarily to hold the deck and hull together during the bonding process. Those used by WorldCat are epoxy tipped so as to also bond with the hull, deck, and backing plate once installed...effectively through bolted but with a glue nut instead of a steel nut.

My WC33 is hull #5 and is thus one of the oldest out there. It has no fiberglass cracks, and only minor gelcoat spider cracks at the extreme inside corner of the tuna door, outside the transom, where the door meets the floor. I've been on literally dozens of 33s and have yet to see any with any worse spider cracks than mine, and many with no spider cracking at all. It has been run hard enough to tear the metal mounting tabs where the tower legs bolt to the front of the console, which is to say very hard. That was done on a trip where forecast 5' seas morphed into 7-8' seas.

Finally, to my knowledge, the only difference between 33 hulls from #1 to present is that 1. the cabin liner has been lightened, 2. they added a port light on each side of the cabin, and 3. the aftmost part of the deck between the livewells was flattened out and drains installed to aid in keeping the rearmost part of the deck dry...my older design deck traps about 1 quart of water between the livewells when on plane.

Harry





with that being said,so there is no way he has one that is cracked?i had a ford truck that was the biggest lemon i have ever seen,thousand's on the road that where perfect.i had a kenner boat that was a POS ended up having to sue tracker marine and get my money back and there are ton's of owner's who love there's.i guess you see the point.hopefully he will post some pic's and we can see if it trully is possible.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Harry. Glad to see you back in one piece but why do you have to call out my boat. I was supporting World Cat and now you are bashing my Prowler.
Show me some pictures of why the 2 piece construction is the same as the Renaissance three piece construction. Renaissance is very clear on why it would be strong. I'm not saying World Cat is not as strong but show me some pictures or a link to how they do it that proves it is as equal to the way Renaissance does it.
I have seen how World Cat screws in the cap/liner. Last I looked it was screwed into a piece of starboard.
And as far as modern bonding agents, I think Renaissance uses the best stuff available considering they have a chemist who works for them.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Hold on a minute...I didn't call out anyone, nor am I denigrating the Prowler (which by the way is a very well built boat as Science,

I've said many times). What I did say is that the strength issue of 3 vs 2 piece construction is debatable. I'll throw your challenge back at you...show me something that shows that the WC 2 piece construction is any less solid than the Ren 3 piece. The backing is indeed a starboard like product, but I as I said, the chemicals bonding the deck and hull are the strength, not the screws. The same is true of the Ren...the bolts are not what makes the bond strong. I'd also venture that WC uses the same or similar bonding agents and that they also have a chemist either on staff or available for consulting.

BTW, I'm still in Iraq, but thanks for the welcome back.

Tommy,

No, I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying that like all first time posters that claim a major failure on a respected brand, I'm skeptical...let's see the pics.

Harry
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Okay,
We’ve had lots of opinions and generalizations throughout this thread as well as some detailed technical review of construction techniques. Let’s see some real photos of the cracks and BTW are we talking gel coat cracks or structural cracks that penetrate the composite honeycomb/stringer assembly or only the fiberglass outer layer?? I suspect we are talking cosmetic problems rather than a structural issue.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

My bet says you won't see any photos...
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Harry Brosofsky - 7/18/2008 7:32 PM


Tommy,

No, I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying that like all first time posters that claim a major failure on a respected brand, I'm skeptical...let's see the pics.

Harry



I agree





and be safe!!
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

I have the most respect for you Harry being in Iraq and I hope you and alll the military come back safe.
I just want to see how World Cat puts their liner/cap down like Renaissance does.
I am not giving WC grief. I just want to know, by pictures, how they do it.

I also don't want to go into the products used in construction. I think they are both fine boats.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Science,

Ren is a sandwich with 3 pieces of bread. They use a bonding agent like p'nut butter between the slices and then through bolt the assembly to hold it together. The bolts are there to set the bond and would not hold the sandwich together without the p'nut butter. The work mainly in shear, not compression. I don't recall how far they are spaced...I think about every 6"-8". They are thicker, so fewer are needed.

WC is a sandwich with 2 pieces of bread. They use the same or a similar p'nut butter between the slices and then screw from the outside (deck cap) to the inside (hull) and into a polymer backer. The screw pulls the two slices together with the backer applying more pressure on the inside. Like the bolts in the Ren, the screws will not hold the sandwich together without the p'nut butter. They also act in shear, just like the bolts in the Ren. They are spaced about every 3" in high stress areas and a little wider in lower stress areas. There are more of them because they have a smaller cross section so they can't resist as much shear.

The Ren uses a 3 piece design to give more room in the cockpit (the liner and hull are touching eachother from gunwale to deck level. They then use the gunwal cap to create a toe kick space. They can through bolts because with a 3 piece design, they have easy access to both sides...they can easily place and hold the nut while installing the bolt. They can install storage by bolting or gluing it on the surface of the liner wall.

Worldcat has space between the hull and liner, and have a molded in toe kick. WC can't through bolt because they don't have access to the entire seam. They can install storage into the walls of the liner.

Which makes a stronger hull/deck combo...probably about the same. The Ren has the inside gunwale (deck liner) bonded to the hull from top to bottom (deck to gunwale cap). WC has the liner in strategic locations. The Ren is like plywood...it gains it's strength by making the walls thicker and making the inside wall work against the outside wall. The WC is like a tube. It gains its strength in the same way a hollow tube is harder to bend than a solid bar.

In the end, the vast majority of the hull strength is from the deck to hull to stringer bonds. Both WC and Prowler have a massive stringer system to join the deck and hull.

BTW, Hateras, Viking, and most other boats are essentially two piece hulls. This is not because 2 piece is better than 3 piece, but rather because you can't build a boat like that with a cap, liner, and hull.

Harry
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

Harry, how did we get on this who is better than who garbage? I love my boat. You love your boat. They both suit our needs. I don't want to start arguing over building aspects. If you read in my earlier posts I defended WC and their customer service. A Pissing contest does nobody any good. Cat people need to stick together no matter what boat you own.

This post has opened a can of worms that I have never heard before about WC. That's all I am saying. I want to see pictures and the talk between WC and danny. That's all anyone can gain from this.

Not to argue further, but the boats you mentioned are not cats, therefore 2 piece or 3 piece is not a good comparison.

Lets end this please Harry. Keep safe.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

if i find them i will show them , gave copy to wc 2006, still no boat yet , was at factory april , they sent it back to the same fiberglass shop in nj to give it its 3rd attempt to fix ,it is july 18 no repairs done yet ,by the way it sat there until firt week of july.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

do you think boat will be safe ,i used to take it 100 miles offshore, now i will not ,they claim is not structural ,but i always wonder ,since they say it was built before they took over the company , probably made changes since, but i do not know, still afraid of it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

I have a 1999 246 and have fished the hell out of it the last 5 years and have not had any issues with anything to do with the hull. Just wiring stuff and basic boat things...

Who have you been speaking with at World Cat?
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR CRACKS IN TUNNEL 246 SF WORLD CAT

science69 - 7/18/2008 4:28 PM

Harry, how did we get on this who is better than who garbage?
I'm going to jump in the middle of this in Harry's defense. I read his posts and comments in this thread and as far as I am concerned, he's simply described differences in construction techniques and I honestly don't think there's a "who is better than who" comment in the posts.

So read it again, please. He candidly says not to believe the internet hype and follows it with a very non-confrontational statement that some (like ubettcha13, the preceding poster) feel the 3 piece is better than two. As I read the posts, Harry OWNS a World Cat. Did I miss something here?

As I read it, he's clearly standing up for the World Cats. Not only that, but he's doing it from Iraq, where he's standing up for US!
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:46 PM
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dannyscat - 7/18/2008 6:46 PM

do you think boat will be safe ,i used to take it 100 miles offshore, now i will not ,they claim is not structural ,but i always wonder ,since they say it was built before they took over the company , probably made changes since, but i do not know, still afraid of it.
If you are afraid of the boat you should not even take it out. If I had your boat and what you say is true and they still have it, I would let them keep it and buy another boat. Move on to another boat. You never want to be out there with friends and family on a bost your afraid of.
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