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Carolina Classic 25 Express in a following sea.

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Carolina Classic 25 Express in a following sea.

Old 12-29-2020, 07:20 PM
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Default Carolina Classic 25 Express in a following sea.

Thinking about purchasing a Carolina 25 Express. Boats on the East Coast. Iím on the west. Donít think a sea trial will give me a idea of how it will handle the big following seas we get from Point Conception in the north to the south towards Santa Barbara. Several of the local boats built here do it well like a Raddon, Davis, Anderson or a Wilson. None for sale here at a reasonable price. Parker 2520 was marginal on its ability to handle them and would bow steer if youíre not on top of it. Parker was none the less on my possible list but started looking around and came across a Carolina Classic 25. After researching I really like them. Problem is, I know of no one that has one to ask about. I know the Albe 24 handles well in a following sea. Have rode on one, but a bit small. It will work fine with proper organization of the layout. Anyone has experience on a Carolina Classic 25 express in a huge following sea?

Last edited by PescadoGrande; 12-29-2020 at 07:26 PM.
Old 12-30-2020, 04:32 AM
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I had a 35 not a 25 but the hulls are all really built on the same deep v principal. Mine rode like a dream in the following and Iím sure the 25 with a 24 degree dead rise will do the same. Iím not sure if you do a lot of drifting but there will be more roll. Always a trade off with these types of boats
Old 12-30-2020, 06:12 AM
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Is there really anyone that knows the exact conditions out there? So many factors involved..
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:30 AM
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I agree with Turtlebull.
I had a 28' and a 35' CC, also a 26 Regulator which is very similar to the 25 CC. All great sea boats both in a headsea and following sea. The 28 CC probably the most tipsy on the drift.
Old 12-30-2020, 06:30 AM
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We have a CC25 IO out of NJ. The CC25 IO is a single drive and sluggish in the steering at slow speeds. Got to stay ahead of heading corrections. They are heavy but with the right power plant and outdrive gear ratio, no issues with staying on a following sea. On occasion weíve been caught by cargo ship wakes or the like off shore, stern hit off angle, thought there could be more concern but she took them well thus far. Thereís a Carolina Classic site which has been helpful. Easily found with search. Arenít the Albe and CC essentially the same. Good luck.
Old 12-30-2020, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PescadoGrande View Post
Thinking about purchasing a Carolina 25 Express. Boats on the East Coast. Iím on the west. Donít think a sea trial will give me a idea of how it will handle the big following seas we get from Point Conception in the north to the south towards Santa Barbara. Several of the local boats built here do it well like a Raddon, Davis, Anderson or a Wilson. None for sale here at a reasonable price. Parker 2520 was marginal on its ability to handle them and would bow steer if youíre not on top of it. Parker was none the less on my possible list but started looking around and came across a Carolina Classic 25. After researching I really like them. Problem is, I know of no one that has one to ask about. I know the Albe 24 handles well in a following sea. Have rode on one, but a bit small. It will work fine with proper organization of the layout. Anyone has experience on a Carolina Classic 25 express in a huge following sea?
Try posting your question on the Carolina Classic owners' website. There are a few members on the west coast and even a couple in Hawaii who may have direct relevant experience. I had a CC25 long ago and never had any issues with how it behaved with a big following sea. In New England we rarely get the big swells you have out on the Pacific unless a hurricane has passed by. But all Carolina Classic hulls tend to ride a little bow high on plane and thus should not be prone to bow steering even on your big swells. Certainly you will be way better off on a CC25 than on one of those awful riding Parker 2520s.
Old 12-30-2020, 08:22 AM
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I'm not the saltiest guy around, but the nature of my job has me running a very wide variety of boats.
With that in mind I'll say this; there's no way on God's green earth that I'd buy a Carolina Classic 25 Express with IO without sea trialing it first.
Old 12-30-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kennyboy View Post
Is there really anyone that knows the exact conditions out there? So many factors involved..
Currently 15-25 it winds from the west, 5-9 ft swells 9 seconds small craft advisory
Old 12-30-2020, 10:53 AM
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Don’t think I can convince a boat owner to sea trial a boat in 10-12 ft seas just so I can see how she handles big following seas. Something about how Point Conception is situated. It funnels saver weather through the channel. You can have 2-3 foot seas with light winds in the morning that will change to 10-12 at 10 seconds with 25 it winds by evening. Cuddy is essential because if you stay too long your staying in Chinese Harbor at Santa Cruze or brave the crossing back to Santa Barbara. I have been on the old 88ft Condor out of the Sea Landing in SB, coming back from San Miguel where the waves were breaking over the wheelhouse. This is why I’m asking if anyone has experienced a 25 Express in a big sea.

Last edited by PescadoGrande; 12-30-2020 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 12-30-2020, 11:02 AM
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I want to thank you all for your input. Seems like I’m getting a middle of the road answer. I get the sharp entry and bow up attitude will lend itself to bow steer. But I was thinking the low center of gravity created by engine placement would help out. As with all hulls it comes down to how it’s piloted on how safe the ride will ultimately be. I just don’t want to purchase a boat the will seem like it’s trying to kill you buy a saver breach, which I have experienced. It makes for a tedious and stressful ride home in bad weather to boot.

Last edited by PescadoGrande; 12-30-2020 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 12-30-2020, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PescadoGrande View Post
I want to thank you all for your input. Seems like Iím getting a middle of the road answer. I get the sharp entry and bow up attitude will lend itself to bow steer. But I was thinking the low center of gravity created by engine placement would help out. As with all hulls it comes down to how itís piloted on how safe the ride will ultimately be. I just donít want to purchase a boat the will seem like itís trying to kill you buy a saver breach, which I have experienced. It makes for a tedious and stressful ride home in bad weather to boot.
Just to be clear, the bow high running angle on the CC25 reduces the tendency to bow steering when running downsea. That's why on most boats, it is very important to retract the trim tabs to bring up the bow going downsea or trim up the motor on an outboard. It's also why many downeast boats with a deep forefoot are a handful downsea.
Old 12-30-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomans View Post
Just to be clear, the bow high running angle on the CC25 reduces the tendency to bow steering when running downsea. That's why on most boats, it is very important to retract the trim tabs to bring up the bow going downsea or trim up the motor on an outboard. It's also why many downeast boats with a deep forefoot are a handful downsea.
Ah yes reduces! sorry I missed that. I thought you were implying it made it worse. Thanks for the clarification. I believe someone said it was better than a 2520 Parker. Forgive me if it was you can see all the posts on my cell phone. If itís better than Parker Iím still interested in finding a good CC 25. The Parker is a well made boat just a little tough out there. Last time we got caught out there we stayed on the hook till early morning when things calmed down. Which is what anyone with any sense would do. Sometimes you have no choice if youíre already across the channel and are 40 miles up north. No ports to ditch into. Just have to slow down and deal with it. Thatís where the boat youíre in makes all the difference.
Old 12-30-2020, 03:36 PM
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I had a 28 Henriques Express in Dana Point for 5 years. We fished Marlin at and around SBI to west end of Cat. We made the down hill run many times in the 20 knot westerlies. We fished the 499 a few times and the gap between SCI and Cat got pretty big at times. I think Point Conception weather is much worse for a following sea. The boat rode very well at 7 knot trolling speed and even better at 20 knots running home. It has a full bow and good lifting straks to get on top of the waves. Even quartering at 20 knots. The bow did not steer, just climbed on top and went. I few times, we would get stuck behind a large swell and the boat would slow down to 15 knots, but would climb over and get rolling again. It was not the best going into a big head sea, but I could make 15 knots without pounding. We also fished south in Mexican waters and the 90 mile afternoon ride into Dana Point was a beating. Henriques are built strong, but are hard to find. No one is selling them for the past 4 years and they are all on the east coast. The are sell for 75 to 100 K with twin diesel.
You did not mention a budget.
As for me, I'm not a fan if I/O power. Just too many things to fix and repair.
Good luck. The boats you mentioned that are designed to surf down the face of the wave is your best bet.
Old 12-31-2020, 09:16 PM
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Thanks for great input and good points. I appreciate everyoneís input. I think Iíll move forward with a purchase. I found a Albe dealer out here and will be contacting them to see of I can hook up with someone for a ride.
I have found a couple that need repower and will try to negotiate a reasonable price. I work for Cummins and can build a marinized 4b that can produce up to 300 hp at 600 ft lbs of torque. More than enough to plane a 25. I think a 6b would be too heavy. Maybe a 5b with a ecm. Easier to control hp. We will see what we have laying around. Canít wait to find a candidate for a retrofit.
Old 12-31-2020, 09:54 PM
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Do i see a build thread in the making ! Love to see how the cummins would look in one.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kennyboy View Post
Is there really anyone that knows the exact conditions out there? So many factors involved..
I do, big swells but with a very long period. Like 5' at 10-15 seconds is common. There's nothing special in the design of west coast boats aside from increased protection from the elements. Cold water and weather here. Many of the most popular boats here are generic national brands. Bayliner trophys, seaswirl stripers and cabin Gradys are some of the most commonly used offshore boats here. Bow steer is caused by burying a sharp bow into the back of another wave when come over the top. Not much of an issue when the swell period is as long as it often is here. Grady has a bow entry as sharp as the true deep vs like the Carolina classic and they are very popular here. The main reason the deep v style boats purpose-built for serious offshore conditions aren't here yet is because of a lack of access primarily. Same reason a rotten old Grady here sells for 3x what they'd cost out east. That's changing as more and more of us are just shipping them in from the east coast.

OP I have a buddy who runs an albemarle in Washington with similar pacific sea states. When it comes to ride it far outperforms the popular local boats. I am confident there is no sea state in which the local Bayliners are going to out ride your Carolina classic
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Old 01-01-2021, 07:27 AM
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If your mostly concerned with following seas then the Carolina 25 will suit you fine. Someone mentioned the Henriques, it won't ride as good as the Carolina 28 in a head and or following. Its a modified V not a true deep v like the CC. Maybe see if you can get a 28 on the cheap, theres probably plenty around.
Old 01-01-2021, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by turbo_baer View Post
Do i see a build thread in the making ! Love to see how the cummins would look in one.
Iíll definitely post some pictures here. Cummins use to own Mercury Marine back when the Zues pod came out. We still service them. What a pain. Anyway we have lots of resources form that period and have seen several conversations of the 4b. I think the problem is at 300hp a 4b is kind of a hotrod. Iíd rather detune for reliability and prop accordingly either way propping will be the key to a conversion. I have torque curve data vs rpm and can do the math. Need a boat first right! Very interested in the CC25 because of the jack shaft setup. This will make it easy. Seaborg Marine in Oxnard CA has done these on lots of Raddons so they have already fabricated the the needed components.

Last edited by PescadoGrande; 01-01-2021 at 12:15 PM.
Old 01-01-2021, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ericpn View Post
I do, big swells but with a very long period. Like 5' at 10-15 seconds is common. There's nothing special in the design of west coast boats aside from increased protection from the elements. Cold water and weather here. Many of the most popular boats here are generic national brands. Bayliner trophys, seaswirl stripers and cabin Gradys are some of the most commonly used offshore boats here. Bow steer is caused by burying a sharp bow into the back of another wave when come over the top. Not much of an issue when the swell period is as long as it often is here. Grady has a bow entry as sharp as the true deep vs like the Carolina classic and they are very popular here. The main reason the deep v style boats purpose-built for serious offshore conditions aren't here yet is because of a lack of access primarily. Same reason a rotten old Grady here sells for 3x what they'd cost out east. That's changing as more and more of us are just shipping them in from the east coast.

OP I have a buddy who runs an albemarle in Washington with similar pacific sea states. When it comes to ride it far outperforms the popular local boats. I am confident there is no sea state in which the local Bayliners are going to out ride your Carolina classic
I considered the Grady but inboard configuration put the engine right on the back of the out drive of course and the engine bay is limited. Availability of 25ís with a inboard is also limited. They are better suited for outboards obviously! Thanks for the confidence about the Classics performance. I would rather get everyoneís opinions form experience on the thread than ask a salesman if it will perform like I hoped a boat would.

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