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Old 12-11-2019, 07:41 PM
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Default Buying boat

How much weight does the surveyors fair market value appraisal have in bargaining on deal on used boat purchase?
Old 12-11-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
How much weight does the surveyors fair market value appraisal have in bargaining on deal on used boat purchase?
what is the surveyor's fair market value based on?

what is the underlying data?

very few of them will pull actual comps and use meaningful data

most people have a survey done after the deal has been negotiated, P&S agreement executed, and deposit down, so in most cases, it would be too late to bargain
Old 12-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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Do I use that value to bargain with seller?
Old 12-11-2019, 08:01 PM
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OR to get seller to fix items as he said everything was working, but they are not.
Old 12-11-2019, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
Do I use that value to bargain with seller?
you arent giving us any details

for example

what is the surveyor using to come up with the #?

have you already negotiated a deal?
Old 12-11-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
OR to get seller to fix items as he said everything was working, but they are not.
depends on your agreement with the seller. do you have a signed P&S agreement? if so, what does it say?
Old 12-11-2019, 09:24 PM
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https://www.yachtsurvey.com/Afterthesurvey.htm
Old 12-12-2019, 04:27 AM
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Depends on how much the seller wants to sell, and/or how much the buyer wants to buy.
Old 12-12-2019, 07:14 AM
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If you pay for the survey, the results of the survey are yours, you can share details as you need to help with negotiations. Usually you point out deficiencies shown in the report to negotiate a lower price for things that you will fix. I prefer to do it this way, either by myself or by a dealer or technician that I trust to make sure it is done correctly. If the seller is not flexible on the price, then maybe with the survey report, you can get the seller to repair those things before purchase.

Generally you get a survey for several reasons. First is to provide peace of mind that the vessel is safe and there isn't a pending catastrophic failure in the hull or engine. Secondly the survey is used as a negotiating tool by establishing a fair price and a list of what items need to repaired. The survey can save you money in the long run by negotiating considerable savings.
Old 12-12-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
OR to get seller to fix items as he said everything was working, but they are not.
typically survey is done at time of offer and to ensure boat is in condition it was represent as being. If not seller should bring to that condition or adjust price accordingly.
Old 12-12-2019, 11:40 AM
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I had a survey performed on a used boat we wanted. After agreeing to a price, the survey was performed. It indicated we were paying a little too much for the boats value. This is something the bank was going to question. We decided to change the offer by -5,000 from the initial agreed upon price. Seller didn’t care for that move and sold it the next day to the next person in line. So it depends... I’m still glad we didn’t budge in the end but I can understand it hurting feelings as well.
Old 12-12-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
Do I use that value to bargain with seller?
Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
OR to get seller to fix items as he said everything was working, but they are not.
Sounds like the seller is asking more than the surveyor’s value and you’re the buyer.
The answer to both of your questions is yes. Assuming your contract, if you had one before survey, states that the deal is subject to acceptable survey. Since issues were found, you can renegotiate price, repairs or walk away.
Old 12-14-2019, 05:19 AM
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Sounds like a little buyers remorse.. Buyer may have found a similar if not the same boat for less money.
Old 12-14-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by hagytime View Post
How much weight does the surveyors fair market value appraisal have in bargaining on deal on used boat purchase?
12 lbs.

You generally want the 'appraised' value to come in equal or greater than the price you are paying. If not, maybe you like the boat too much, or there are issues with the boat's condition.
Old 12-14-2019, 07:32 AM
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What you negotiate with the seller is between you two. I do know that when I was trying to get a loan for a used boat, "fair market value" meant a lot to the loan company. It also meant a lot to the insurance company, for the purpose of setting an agreed value. The insurance company and the loan company have skin in the game and the surveyor established "fair market value" sets some hard limits on loan and insurance amounts.
Old 12-14-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Fine Catch View Post
What you negotiate with the seller is between you two. I do know that when I was trying to get a loan for a used boat, "fair market value" meant a lot to the loan company. It also meant a lot to the insurance company, for the purpose of setting an agreed value. The insurance company and the loan company have skin in the game and the surveyor established "fair market value" sets some hard limits on loan and insurance amounts.
My experience: I have yet to come across an insurance company that will insure for anything other than what the purchase price is/was and things that can be shown by the new owner (taxes, delivery costs, upgrades, etc). I have gotten some sweet deals over the years and not one insurer would agree to insure higher even with a survey valuation, comps, etc.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:02 AM
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In my case, the agreed value was the selling price and the "fair market value.". After Hurricane Sandy, the used boat market was somewhat depleted in my area and the seller stood fast on price. I had looked at a handful of boats of the same price and vintage before choosing this one. I felt the boat's condition was good enough to pay asking price. That said, I can't disagree with you, Mystery.
Old 12-20-2019, 06:55 AM
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How does the surveyor's value assessment compare to the Kelly Blue Book value? Many of the boats I see on THT are double the KBB.
Old 12-20-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by divinrob View Post
How does the surveyor's value assessment compare to the Kelly Blue Book value? Many of the boats I see on THT are double the KBB.
Depends. Replacement value? Fair market value? Etc. For replacement value its usually a computer program that calculates. Much like the programs for homes where cost to rebuild needs to be determined for insurance purposes. Blue book value is just usually straight line depreciation on MSRP. Both of these are useless when buying a boat. Fair market value could be helpful if its based on real data but one needs to understand the underlying data and how its computed. If comps are used, how were they obtained, etc. Fair market value could be like what a home assessor comes up with. The only real way IMO is to go out and get real data on what comparable boats are being purchased and sold for, verify it a couple ways. Just pulling data off soldboats, BUC, etc, isn't good enough. Can't trust Brokers to enter the right numbers. Some don't especially when they sell a lot of that type of boat. Some boats also sell for inflated prices if trades are being taken out, etc. I personally go and talk to actual owners - sellers and buyers - some are happy to disclose the info, some are not. Always do your homework!
Old 12-20-2019, 07:59 AM
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1. Book value means nothing. It's exactly as it states - GUIDE, not gospel. Some boats sell FAR above book, others aren't worth half of the book value. You have to know the market for that boat.

2. In my case: We agree on a price as shown, issues disclosed - IE what works and what doesn't. The survey is for your information to make an informed decision. I will honor what I said was working, anything else is for your info so you know what you have to deal with IF you buy it. I will not re-negotiate because the survey found corroded battery wires that work, but may need to be replaced. Nor a bilge pump that works, but looks like it should be replaced. That kind of thing.

3. What the survey should be ALL about: Transom solid - stringers, floor in tact - engines have good compression and most if not all of the important features are in good working order. You have to go into a used boat purchase knowing you will be reinvesting if you want it "perfect" If you expect perfect - you should be looking at new boats.

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