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Yamaha vs Suzuki vs Mercury 300ís

Old 06-20-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpfitness View Post
Presumably because the Merc rep he has been talking with has been helpful and offering incentives

this as much as anything. The local Merc rep has offered some attractive incentives and been very responsive. Yamaha was much less responsive and almost dismissive. 300’s are short as everyone knows so the Merc offer is on 350’s. Still undecided at this point because even with his help there is obviously a price difference.

and yes there were originally 250’s on the boat. Less than 1000 hours, all serviced, kept on a trailer and out of the elements 6 months per year, and less than 75 hours since the last major work was done.
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:52 AM
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Pursuit 2470 w/ 2007 Suzuki DF300 - The combination works well. I'm in the market for a 315 OS. Would not hesitate to go with DF300's !! However, I would sleep well at night with either a Yamaha or the latest generation mercury-although not a fan of Verado for that application.
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by alloyboy View Post
Do you know how that works?

How much does Yamaha pay Pursuit for the purchase of the transom? Is it a fixed fee or is it a % based on the HP of the motor paid by Yamaha to Pursuit?

Does Yamaha give the motor(s) and ancillary components to Pursuit as well as paying them for the purchase of the transom?

I don't see it making good business sense to give away motors and some cash just to have their brand hung on some particular boat.
I donít know the details of their deal but itís not hard to imagine.

Yamaha- we want to be the exclusive mfg for you guys
Boat mfg- Ok what can you do for us.
Yamaha- weíll give your our engines at cost + x%

Yamaha isnít giving away their engines and they arenít losing money. They make less profit on those engines but they also have more predictable sales and get their outboards on new boats. I would guess their model indicates people will stay brand loyal at repower time so thatís another reason to offer these deals.

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Old 06-21-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Polapea View Post
I donít know the details of their deal but itís not hard to imagine.

Boat mfg- Hey Yamaha. We want to simplify our life and offer only one brand of motor. In our view, the most popular brand. To further the sales of our boats. Will you work with us?

Yamaha- Of course, we want to be the exclusive mfg for you guys. If you agree to purchase X motors of types A, B,C every Y months, and only buy from us, let's strike a great deal. For you and us.

Yamaha- weíll give your our engines at cost + x%. A win win for both of us. Thank you for selecting Yamaha.

Yamaha isnít giving away their engines and they arenít losing money. They make less profit on those engines but they also have more predictable sales and get their outboards on new boats. I would guess their model indicates people will stay brand loyal at repower time so thatís another reason to offer these deals.
Fixed it for you. You are welcome.

Folks act like one company choosing to exclusively use only another company's products are a nefarious deal. Happens all of the time.
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jcfishhouse View Post



this as much as anything. The local Merc rep has offered some attractive incentives and been very responsive. Yamaha was much less responsive and almost dismissive. 300ís are short as everyone knows so the Merc offer is on 350ís. Still undecided at this point because even with his help there is obviously a price difference.

and yes there were originally 250ís on the boat. Less than 1000 hours, all serviced, kept on a trailer and out of the elements 6 months per year, and less than 75 hours since the last major work was done.
Just another example of one manufacture looking for exposure and the other is not.
Looking from my couch, you want the cheapest (money out of your pocket) engine available and aren't brand loyal at all.
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by alloyboy View Post
Now here is a case of an engine maker "buying" transoms.
https://www.evinrude.com/en-US/press...ine-group.html
alloyboy; the most unbiased opinion in THT...
the one that is so concerned about evinrude, that even though it has no sales, no market share, and "buys" transoms (even though said transoms are owned by the engine builder), he inserts evinrude in a thread that was not about them...

now; there are a few yammy owners with problems in this site, can you instead help them, or rather use your focus on evinrude?
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Blazer7420 View Post
Just another example of one manufacture looking for exposure and the other is not.
Looking from my couch, you want the cheapest (money out of your pocket) engine available and aren't brand loyal at all.
Yamaha is actually the cheaper option at this point due mainly to quoting 300's vs 350's so, no. Yes it is going to be expensive either way but there are cheaper options out there that we have dismissed. I do agree with you about one trying harder for exposure of their brand.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:09 AM
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A good argument can be made for any of the new 300HP motors, compared to the days of past they all are awesome!
However there are issues and each one can have a good argument made against it. So it is a pick your poison.

As far as one brand working better then another brand on a particular hull, that is almost funny. All motors generate thrust, All boats displace some water and create drag. So does yamaha have some magic method of reducing drag on a pursuit hull. LOL. IMHO the only real different is power/speed props. Right or wrong I think that Yamaha may perform slighty better on lighter/faster hulls and that Zuk will do slightly better on heavier/not as fast hulls. Simply because of gear ratio and prop diameter.

I have yamaha f250 (4.2 block) They have been great, except for making oil. I advised my friend with his current wishes to get a zuk df300. The comments about being on a budget really play to the suzuki, Which is why they are doing great in the repower market. Yamaha get a premium on their repowers cause they are often replacing yamaha's Which where sold to builder at bargain price (buying Transom).

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Old 06-21-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by alloyboy View Post
Fixed it for you. You are welcome.

Folks act like one company choosing to exclusively use only another company's products are a nefarious deal. Happens all of the time.
Didnít need it fixed but thanks for trying.

I never implied making these deals is nefarious. You stated it wasnít a good business model, it actually is.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpfitness View Post
I like the g2s, am a believer in the technology, don't give a shit if it's a 2stroke vs 4stroke, I would probably prefer putting oil in a remote tank then having oil changes done but biggest problem I see with Evinrude is they don't seem to want any market share or they would drop prices a bit. People aren't buying into the 5 year no maintenance thing as a cost savings to justify increased upfront purchase cost. I see Suzuki repowers everywhere as a result.
I am with you on this. I had repowered my skiff a couple years ago, Evinurde was easily 20% more then any other brand. I love the motor, wish it was a little quieter at idle, but awesome on gas, runs strong, no issues at all. No oil changes and self long term storage / winterization make it a no brainer. If I had the money and someone I trusted to do work for me, I would probably have no issue with any brand, except Yamaha. I feel like I was burnt on the F225 corrosion issue. The fact they denied and denied there was a problem, when there clearly was is BS. Then telling people to flush the motor better? The water doesn't even touch the impacted areas...
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Tossedabout View Post
A previous poster stated that the df300 has been out longer than the f300.
i really donít recall ever seeing Suzukiís until recently. I donít believe df300ís have more hrs of actual use as f300ís. Not even close. IF in 3 or 4 more years these recently sold df 300ís are still running then you can bet Suzuki will be going up on price-no doubt. If they prove to be as durable as f300 the price will be very close between them. Suzuki will go up in price Yamaha ainít coming down.
Open your eyes. Look where it matters. Both sea tow and tow boat US in my area are all Suzuki. Now who better to ask then the companies who spend all day and night rescuing boaters with broke down engines.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Polapea View Post


I don’t know the details of their deal but it’s not hard to imagine.

Yamaha- we want to be the exclusive mfg for you guys
Boat mfg- Ok what can you do for us.
Yamaha- we’ll give your our engines at cost + x%

Yamaha isn’t giving away their engines and they aren’t losing money. They make less profit on those engines but they also have more predictable sales and get their outboards on new boats. I would guess their model indicates people will stay brand loyal at repower time so that’s another reason to offer these deals.


Sometimes there is more to it than that too. There is the whole financial (lending) services aspect too. (ie. floor planning and other lending services). Sometimes if you want the whole financial package and are willing to agree to X amount of units a year, the builder agrees to use one brand exclusively with no other options to the customer.

Last edited by iFishMD; 06-21-2019 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by barrell View Post



Open your eyes. Look where it matters. Both sea tow and tow boat US in my area are all Suzuki. Now who better to ask then the companies who spend all day and night rescuing boaters with broke down engines.
100% awesome. But down here near Homestead we have 0 access to Suzuki, Mech, parts and Service.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by barrell View Post



Open your eyes. Look where it matters. Both sea tow and tow boat US in my area are all Suzuki. Now who better to ask then the companies who spend all day and night rescuing boaters with broke down engines.
eyes wide open! Iíve also seen seatow and rowboat us running zukes. For two years only in my area. That doesnít say much for longevity. I also see tons of charter guys using them. Suzuki has a huge campaign going to get market share. Just because a tow company, who probably was approached by Suzuki runs their stuff doesnít make it great or the best.
May be great may even be the best. Lets see how they hold up. Now that thereís a lot more df300 on the water we will be able to see how well they do.

One has to look no farther than many forums to be able to compare these models and to see the issues each has when they arise.

Be be nice to know the numbers of issues and failures per the number of units in service. That would tell the truth.

Im not knocking Suzuki. As Iíve said Iíve been attracted by the price. Donít think for a minute that Suzuki isnít buying every transom they can for exposure. INCLUDING tow companies.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:34 AM
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My buddy has a Pursuit 3370 with brand new Yammie 300's, very good combo, plenty of power, cruise at 32 getting 1.2-1.3,. We chatted about next engines and I said unless you want a faster cruise- I really don't think you need any more hp. This said I'm a Mercury guy in general but I think Yammie 300 is a proven engine and probably not worth switching out controls-gauges to make switch.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by barrell View Post



Open your eyes. Look where it matters. Both sea tow and tow boat US in my area are all Suzuki. Now who better to ask then the companies who spend all day and night rescuing boaters with broke down engines.
You do realize that companies look for the cheapest product they can buy in bulk? It's not about what is the best but what costs them the least. Not knocking Suzuki at all but it seems many people don't know how purchasing decisions are made for corporations and Government entities.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:32 PM
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Heard the same thing time and time again about USCG and what they run. You could be right, but I would also think they would cut ties if they had a bunch of issues. Would it really be worth it in the end if they cannot run the boats and make money towing people in or saving people?

Originally Posted by davepjr71 View Post
You do realize that companies look for the cheapest product they can buy in bulk? It's not about what is the best but what costs them the least. Not knocking Suzuki at all but it seems many people don't know how purchasing decisions are made for corporations and Government entities.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by iFishMD View Post
Sometimes there is more to it than that too. There is the whole financial (lending) services aspect too. (ie. floor planning and other lending services). Sometimes if you want the whole financial package and are willing to agree to X amount of units a year, the builder agrees to use one brand exclusively with no other options to the customer.
If a boat builder decides to power with X brand exclusively then it is the boat builder that is not giving his customers options for other brands of motors. Why then do folks seem to want to take out their angst on the motor maker of brand X. Brand X motor maker has nothing to do with any business arrangement between the boat builder and the boat builders customers.

By the way, boat builder is the customer of the motor maker. Boat builders dealer is the customer of the boat builder. The end user is the customer of the boat builders dealer.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HighSpeedPursuit View Post
Heard the same thing time and time again about USCG and what they run. You could be right, but I would also think they would cut ties if they had a bunch of issues. Would it really be worth it in the end if they cannot run the boats and make money towing people in or saving people?
I agree with what You both say. Anyway You slice it, Suzuki has been brilliant with how they are growing. Whether or no their product is as good or better they have found a way to ďget thereĒ and I donít see them tripping over their feet. I will even go as far as to state my own honest opinion on what I see happening.
No, I donít think at this time Suzuki is up there with Yamaha. I mean across the board. Motors may be as good but the Suzuki network is still a work in progress.
Thing is itís obvious that they are smart. I think they will only improve. The quality and dependability of their product, service,and warranty. The only way I see them failing is if their motors are not ďas goodĒ and they build all parts of their biz. Except the quality. They have more than their foot in the door. If they improve quality and dependability along with the service dept. they will take the top spot. If in time it becomes apparent that these motors are a pain to keep in service, they will be gone as quick as they showed up.

I Mo think they will improve quality and I think as their service network grows they will be up there with yamaha. Yamaha didnít get to where they are overnight. Suzuki is a very smart company. That impressed me and they have an opportunity to really grow. If they are doing great now by selling sub standard motors for cheap they will be here today and gone tomorrow.
I personally wouldnít let some of the issues they have bother you. They are fixing things. They have made improvements and again if they are smart they will put a lot of this quick money back into r&d.
Each manufacture improves and has to fix design issues and other issues. From what Iíve seen and heard they ARE a good investment.

Hard to say how it will go. If the motors have issues but they are affordable many folks will still buy them.

trouble free use and longevity thatís what people want.

Last thing. Dealers: I can honestly say that the Suzuki dealers Iíve talked with have been amazing. Donít know if they are making a killing or what it is but each of them have been very helpful and friendly. Perhaps Suzuki is smart in how they look after their dealers I donít know.
OutBoard specialties is amazing.What few issues Iíve seen people have, these guys have helped them above and beyond what you normally see. That is worth a lot. Iíd buy any brand from them.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tossedabout View Post


I wasnít clear. Yes, Suzuki 300 has been out a loooong time. Thatís my point. You never ever saw one being used until recently. Atleast not in NC. What Iím trying to say is other companies put out their 300ís and they have many hours of use time on each model. Not so with Honda Tohatsu. And Suzuki.

Id bet df 300ís have had more hrs of use in the last year than in the previous 10 years. They are flying off the shelf.

While there are more dealers than in years past they are still growing. When any company is where Suzuki is now can be bad for customers. Being first out of the gate and then getting passed by the other big two is what they have done.

All im looking for is to see that some crazy design flaws have been fixed. When I feel that they have heck Iíll probably want one unless their prices keep going up.
The steel plugs in the AL exhaust housings where switched to all aluminum in 2006-2008. What other specific design flaws do the suzuki's now have? Prices are going up on everything I follow so what's the problem with suzuki, again specifically? I have about 10,000 hrs between 3 sets of twin Suzies and one set has over 6000 each since I sold them, so am I just lucky?
The df300 is a strong quiet motor priced right, with a rep for reliability.

And Merc and Yamy have always been ahead of Suz in sales, so once again, I don't understand where you get your news.
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