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What's up with Evinrude (BRP)?

Old 06-15-2019, 05:51 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Whaler27 View Post
Blackberry is still around. Better analogy is Apple IOS versus Android market share. Globally Android market share is about 85 percent. Apple IOS global market share is about 15 percent. According to our friend, Apple should just throw in the towel and start making iPhones with the Android OS.
I know, Blackberry is my analogy for BRP/OMC.
Was once king and now has to be content with their place in the market.

FWIW, I have nothing against two strokes.
In my mind, if BRP can provide better customer support through dealers, it starts gaining ground.
If they can't do that reliably, they have spent a ton of money for nothing.



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Old 06-15-2019, 06:00 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by seahorse View Post




The above quote by Tracy Crocker, president of BRP Evinrude and Marine Propulsion, is from a presentation to the boating media about recreational boats, not outboard motors as so many here mistakenly attributed.

The 3.7% market share remark is not about Evinrude's outboard motor market share, but of BRP Marine Group's share of the US recreational boat marketplace after their purchases of Alumacraft and Manitou in the US. Yamaha's boat share is only 4% and Mercury's share with all their boat companies is 13.5%..

The $20 billion figure is for retail boat sales, not outboard motor sales as the whole US outboard industry combined comprises only a fraction of that amount of money. The author should have explained in better detail that the 3.7% market share number is for boats, not outboard motors.
Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


I guess..........if 3.7% market share is your goal. Considering the very small number of players in the outboard market thatís abysmal. I donít necessarily think itís foolish for Evinrude to make a nice 2 stroke. Itís definitely a good motor. I just think itís foolish for them to put all their efforts into that, and ignore that the market as a whole is wanting 4-strokes. Seems a bit self centered for them to take the ďwe are smarter than our potential customersĒ approach. Rarely has that worked out historically.
?
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:04 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Classic25 View Post
?
perhaps Iím wrong. What is their us marketshare of outboards? Just based on casual observations around here......itís pretty close to zero. See them on a few sea pros, and occasionally on a bass boat.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
perhaps Iím wrong. What is their us marketshare of outboards? Just based on casual observations around here......itís pretty close to zero. See them on a few sea pros, and occasionally on a bass boat.
"Perhaps" is saying it mildly. You may have some "casual observations around here," but you have no clue what is going on in other parts of the country. And you sure like to argue - geesh, what have you said that is of value to anyone?
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by First Light View Post
"Perhaps" is saying it mildly. You may have some "casual observations around here," but you have no clue what is going on in other parts of the country. And you sure like to argue - geesh, what have you said that is of value to anyone?
I thought it was just me thinking this.

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Old 06-15-2019, 06:43 AM
  #166  
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I would just love for someone to explain (other than padding workorder time) what on earth takes 3.5 hours to do for a routine service. A major service, sure. Routine. What on earth is getting done?
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
I would just love for someone to explain (other than padding workorder time) what on earth takes 3.5 hours to do for a routine service. A major service, sure. Routine. What on earth is getting done?
Whether it takes 3.5 hrs or not we can leave for debate.
(The rest of the stuff, I will explain our position, you the THT posse can debate till the cows come home).
This is what we do for a Annual or 100hr service.
Annual service 4 Stroke, 4.2 Offshore: Check compression, change oil, filters, plugs, fuel filters, change F/W separator, , change L/U Lube, grease engine, remove prop, check and grease prop shaft, change zincs(Block and ext), change thermostats, spray engine with silicone. Run computer diagnostics and code download, log service. Reset service log.
Why do we do this you say?
First off I'll go through the mechanical reasons, then the litigious ones.
- Whether it's a returning customer or not, compression gives a baseline for current and future issues.
- Change check anodes. 100 hrs or a year. Don't check, we are screwed.
- Gotta pull plugs to check compression, for the most part, it's not a huge add on to price, Iridium plugs change that and it needs to be considered.
And, as has been duly noted on this Forum MULTIPLE times, once we touch it, we own it, and most likely the boat and trailer also.
We have to be thorough, we have to do what is recommended by the OEM, if we don't, you, your lawyer, and the OEM and their lawyers all come for a visit.
Just the way it is. And it's my job to be sure the techs do it, the way it's supposed to be done, complete, and with no fingerprints left behind. No easy task.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:01 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


I think it’s perfectly fine for them to cater to that market. It’s downright dumb if they think they are going to expand their market share to any great degree via marketing two strokes though. Maybe they are making all the money they want. Who knows.
The perfect storm created the 4 stroke market. The EPA requirements meant that very few manufacturers had the 2 stroke tech needed to stay in compliance. OMC was going bankrupt, but owned the FICHT rights that led to E-TEC. Merc had the most efficient outboard on the market with the optis, but their tech was leased from Orbital. When those terms were up, Merc no longer had the ability to produce them. Yam had the HPDI, but it followed behind the others in comparison.

These companies realized that they could meet emissions by putting minivan engines on lower units. The market was shocked at the lack of decibels, excited to not to add oil, and most were comparing those new 4 strokes to smokey carbed 2 strokes. Perfect storm created a group think ignorance that is tough to overcome.

I don't think that all 4 stroke owners are ignorant. Pros and cons need to be evaluated by each purchaser. But based on my DI 2 stroke ownership throughout this market change that includes hearing the gamut of the misinformation regarding modern 2 strokes, I can promise you that a healthy portion of the general public (including some close friends and family) regurgitate the same talking points as if gospel without ever doing some research. Shoot, I have lost track of the amount of people that figured my Evinrude was one of those new 4 strokes.

The THT crowd has a better grasp in my opinion. Even still, the misinformation flows like the Mississippi around here.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ric232 View Post
I don't think the issue is mechanical noise. I believe it is induction noise which won't be helped by insulating the cowling.
As a former owner of Yamaha 4-strokes who repowered with G2 300s, I agree that the G2s are louder at idle than 4-strokes, but I like that. To me, that's what outboards are supposed to sound like. I guess it's personal preference. Just like I wouldn't like a motorcycle that was quiet like a Tesla. Psychologically, the sound of the G2s remind me of the 2nd reason why I repowered with them: torque, which is far superior to 4-strokes. The first reason was a 10-Year warranty on the G2s and no recommended maintenance for 5 years at a time as opposed to tons of expensive and time consuming maintenance every year with the 4 strokes.

Having said that, the noise at idle or slow speed of the G2s is not loud enough to prevent you from having normal conversations. They're much quieter than old 2-stroke technology. At cruising speeds, the noise level is comparable with the 4-stroke engines because most of that noise is caused by wind and water.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


perhaps Iím wrong. What is their us marketshare of outboards? Just based on casual observations around here......itís pretty close to zero. See them on a few sea pros, and occasionally on a bass boat.
That may be because there are no dealers in your area?
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Classic25 View Post
That may be because there are no dealers in your area?
there are a few. Almost all also rep Suzuki or Honda.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:14 AM
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I spoke with a local dealer for Key West that used to sell almost exclusively Yamaha. They are doing a lot of Evinrudes now and when asked about the manufacturer support, he said its better than the rest. So maybe the change is coming but as others noted it has to consistent across the markets. Aren't they the only one who gives a corrosion warrantee of any kind?
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:20 AM
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Evinrude has a 5-year corrosion warranty on the E-TEC G2 models, Mercury only has a 3-year corrosion warranty. No other outboard company that I am aware of has any type of warranty for corrosion.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:29 AM
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Another poster mentioned BRP owning Manitou. I take my boat to get service done at Palmetto Boat Center near Greenville, SC as they are a 5 star Yamaha service center with factory trained mechanics. They use to sell Manitou. Then the last time I went in there I noticed their boat lines changed some . They added big Key West boats and Manitou is gone. They carry new boats with Yamaha and Mercury, but not Evinrude.

Anyway, in this case Manitou lost a dealer because of the motor on the stern. I suppose they make it up some place else . Owning a boat company works for Mercury but I don't know if that's always the case for everyone else. Just some speculation on my part.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:31 AM
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I'd consider a g2 on my next boat that has a max HP of 250. Would be between that and a Merc 250 V8.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokyMtnGrady View Post
Anyway, in this case Manitou lost a dealer because of the motor on the stern. I suppose they make it up some place else . Owning a boat company works for Mercury but I don't know if that's always the case for everyone else. Just some speculation on my part.
The straight scoop is that after BRP purchased Manitou, they told all the dealers that they could still order whatever motor they wished. Yamaha was the one to cut the cord and decided not to supply Manitou with Yamaha outboards for their dealers anymore.

A Manitou dealer can furnish the company with a rigging kit for whatever outboard they wish and Manitou will install it for free. All the dealer had to do is bolt up the motor when the boat arrives.. The thing to keep in mind is that Manitou is not an Evinrude only boat, current dealers can order bare boats or have the factory install their rigging kits beforehand. Manitou is an equal opportunity boat supplier.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:46 AM
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This post got so big I stoped reading it and picked back up near the end. Let’s remember that evenrude did sell four stroke engines before and why they stopped I don’t know. The were Suzuki power heads. Maybe the business was on the down path. To argue what is more economical for maintenance boating magazine did a whole rite-up on it. Another thing is that I didn’t spend thousands of $$ on engines to have to do all of the maintenance to save a few hundred bucks. If it costs more to maintain a four stroke then it does, admit it and reach into your pockets it was your choice. If you want the extra weight, pay more per engine, less warrantee period, more maintenance scheduled, less torque, more fuel costs, want black or gray instead of white, all your choice. No matter who you are if you had a number of boats with different make engines you will have a problem with one of them. I happen to be extremely happy with my etec 300’s better than mercs and Yamahas I had and I get a different boat every two years as projects to restore as a hobby. So thats my story and not bashing other makes just my experience and I wish etec would make a 400 hp as I am looking at a boat over 35’ to work on and I don’t want triple engines.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by trout25red View Post
The perfect storm created the 4 stroke market. The EPA requirements meant that very few manufacturers had the 2 stroke tech needed to stay in compliance. OMC was going bankrupt, but owned the FICHT rights that led to E-TEC.

I don't think that all 4 stroke owners are ignorant. Pros and cons need to be evaluated by each purchaser. But based on my DI 2 stroke ownership throughout this market change that includes hearing the gamut of the misinformation regarding modern 2 strokes, I can promise you that a healthy portion of the general public (including some close friends and family) regurgitate the same talking points as if gospel without ever doing some research. Shoot, I have lost track of the amount of people that figured my Evinrude was one of those new 4 strokes.

The THT crowd has a better grasp in my opinion. Even still, the misinformation flows like the Mississippi around here.
I was very much a Misinformed Boater.

Searching in 95 for an Outboard, 50 hp range, coming from a 1991 30 hp 2s Tiller. I tried a 50 hp 4s Honda Carbureted, on a similar boat, the thing was a slug. 50 hp 4s Yamaha, were so new I didn't get a chance to try one, but swore I wasn't going to be a 4s Guinea Pig (at that time). I went with a Pro 50 Yamaha. You can't go wrong with a 3 hole 2s Yamaha, later I heard early 50 Yamaha 4s having Crank Problems, Happy with my decision.

1998, needed a Bigger Boat, 100-115hp range. Thought of 90 Yamaha too small, 100-115 Suzuki 4s (remembered the 50 Honda) 115 Yamaha 2s or 115 Yamaha 4s. Even had a Buddy who sold Boats like the one I was purchasing, try and sell me a 1998 FITCH Johnson. Actually made a deal for a 100 V4 Suzuki 2s that fell through and wound up with a 1 y.o. V4 130 Yamaha 2s. 19 years without any major issues, clean carbs etc.

2017, time once again for a bigger boat. Not many 2 stroke options anymore, No Rude dealers close by, so I made the switch to 4s. And so far very happy with the results. Better economy, servicing isn't a big issue (the boat is trailered) quiet and not a dog out of the hole.

So when I say "MISINFORMED" I was basing a lot of my opinion on 1995 4s technology, it has advanced in 20+ years. But so has 2s Technology, had this New Rude been available, with a servicing Dealer close by, it very likely would be on the back of my boat now (price being similar). I love 2 strokes!

The people that feel 2s or Evinrude now, are Last Choice Options, need only to look back at Hyundai, the 1987 Pony dissolved in your driveway in 2-3 years, now they are a viable choice. If BRP keeps doing stuff like this, while Yamaha sits on it's Hands thinking They have the Best Choice out there. Flywheel Replacements, faulty injectors and Corrosion are just facts of life, Deal with it. Well, General Motors had similar attitudes, that caused "Too Big to Fail" actually Fail.
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:18 AM
  #179  
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I don't understand the justification on not buying a four stroke by claiming they don't have to pay $1900 for 100 hr service. Looking at the example above on the Suzuki invoice....most of the costs would be something I would do on an Evinrude also....IF I used the same justification of changing/inspecting the parts at 100 hrs on a four stroke.
I mean...Evinrude may claim no service for 5 years but are we claiming that a four stroke needs to drop his lower unit, change an impeller, change plugs, change fuel filters, change zincs, remove and grease the prop, change gear oil, every 100 hrs but somehow an Evinrude can let these go for 500 hrs without even looking at them? Maybe by the book but in theory, can someone explain to me why most of these items last five times longer on an Evinrude. Are we really saying that an Evinrude shaft can go five years without concern for freezing to the powerhead but a Four stroke can't? Same as plugs....Evinrude magically can get 5 times longer life? Impeller? Prop won't need to be removed to check for fishing line or greased? No fuel filter changes for five years?Sorry..but I don't buy it and this whole justification for buying a two stroke over a four stroke because of no maintenance is silly to me.
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:26 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by ranmar850 View Post
I don't think I've seen this mentioned in this particular thread so far, so apologies if it has--but the widely touted no services for 3 years and a ten year warranty are a bit of a furphy, aren't they? Not bashing, just asking. Ten year warranty was a limited offer? ... you DO need to take an Etec in at least annually for inspections or you void the warranty? Is this true? ... Is the BRP ten year, for those who got it, hours-limited?
Mine came with the 8 year warranty. I donít remember there being an hour limit.

As for annual checks on the etec, they are just checks... on boat fuel water separator, anodes, lower unit oil check (annual change recommended for saltwater use). The impeller and plugs are the big maintenance items and they are 3 year for G1 and 5 year for G2.
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