Notices
Like Tree117Likes

What's up with Evinrude (BRP)?

Old 06-14-2019, 05:54 AM
  #101  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Cocoa, FL Brevard
Posts: 5,430
Default

Makes me wonder why you haven't bought any of these due to savings alone.

Originally Posted by Whaler27 View Post
Absolutely nothing stopping the current 4-stroke makers from doing this or making a longer service interval lower unit. Why don't they just jump in and do it? Because it would reduce the dealer after the initial sale annuity stream that comes from more part$ and $ervice opportunitie$.
HighSpeedPursuit is online now  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:10 AM
  #102  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sarasota, Fl
Posts: 1,447
Default thanks

Originally Posted by seahorse View Post
No outboard company gives those figures out.

Unless something changed in the past year, the last I heard was Merc is #1 in all US outboard sales, Yamaha is a close #2 (#1 in the saltwater market), Suzuki in the last few years moved up to #3 mostly due to low prices, Evinrude is #4, and Honda is #5 and Tohatsu #6 (but that may change very soon if not already)

I wonder if those rankings transcend equally internationally...

cfauvel is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:15 AM
  #103  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,011
Default

Probably not. Yamaha, Merc, and others still build and sell thousands of the old smoky 2-strokes in underdeveloped countries where there are no emission laws. That would also skew the results against companies that do not do that. China also sells Yamaha knock-offs to 3rd world countries.as they do not have to abide by pollution regulations.
cfauvel likes this.
seahorse is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:20 AM
  #104  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gretna, LA, USA
Posts: 6,235
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
If BRP wants to really take innovation to the next step, come out with a 4 stroke that is specifically designed to be serviced in the water or on the lift. They already have the long service interval lower unit figured out. Just use it, throw a modern 4 stroke power head on top of that and their integrated power steering setup, build in a clean method of pumping out the motor oil and changing the filter (as in so clean it will be viewed in a positive light by dockmasters), and boom, advantage BRP.

As I am many others have pointed out. The problem with BPR isn't their 2 stroke technology. By all accounts its a great product. The problem is the market perception of what 2 strokes are. In every other market, with possibly the exception of small handheld equipment, 2 strokes pretty well suck, and the marketing drives that point home........successfully. BRP has tried, and failed, to change that. Perhaps they should keep around the 2 stroke line for all of you folks that are obsessed with it (all 3-4% of yall), and release something for the rest of the market, because it's pretty apparent it's only the diehards that are writing checks.
Perhaps one, just one, 4 stroke manufacturer will finally come out with an outboard that is as easy to maintain for a lift-kept boat like my G1 has for over a dozen years for me.

Perhaps one, just one, 4 stroke manufacturer will come out with a model that can outperform the G2 or come close to its maintenance schedule. It has been 5 years, still nope.

I agree that market perception is a problem. I'm fine with being in the small percentage that gets it.

I don't detest 4 strokes, I just don't see a compelling reason to buy. Oh, and to think an E-TEC forces you to yell at others while a 4 stroke let's you whisper is ignorance. One day of exposure to them would clear that misconception right up.
trout25red is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:08 AM
  #105  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,465
Default

Originally Posted by trout25red View Post
Perhaps one, just one, 4 stroke manufacturer will finally come out with an outboard that is as easy to maintain for a lift-kept boat like my G1 has for over a dozen years for me.

Perhaps one, just one, 4 stroke manufacturer will come out with a model that can outperform the G2 or come close to its maintenance schedule. It has been 5 years, still nope.

I agree that market perception is a problem. I'm fine with being in the small percentage that gets it.

I don't detest 4 strokes, I just don't see a compelling reason to buy. Oh, and to think an E-TEC forces you to yell at others while a 4 stroke let's you whisper is ignorance. One day of exposure to them would clear that misconception right up.
Like I say, I have zero against the product itself, from a function standpoint. But were I buying a new boat or repowering, and resale was of any concern at all, I would look at every other option, specifically because they are 4 strokes, and that's what the market wants.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:29 AM
  #106  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gretna, LA, USA
Posts: 6,235
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Like I say, I have zero against the product itself, from a function standpoint. But were I buying a new boat or repowering, and resale was of any concern at all, I would look at every other option, specifically because they are 4 strokes, and that's what the market wants.
I respect that. I would consider resale too if I flipped equipment often, I just tend to hang on to things.
trout25red is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:33 AM
  #107  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Currently, Arizona
Posts: 219
Default

I don't think anyone really gets it.
When you are shorting a particular stock, you want to spread disinformation as quickly and violently as possible.
It's called capitalism, at its finest.
Hammerhead 6 is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 09:02 AM
  #108  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Jax FL
Posts: 2,637
Default

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/indus...les-statistics

I searched before and worldwide it was Honda at like 23% about 20 for all the other big players.

Can these guys be believed about anything?
https://www.nmma.org/press/article/22575


Here is claims Yamaha is 40% of the world.
Yamaha Motor Records 40% Global Sales Of Outboard Engines - News - Asia-Pacific Boating
Jumpsummo is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:28 PM
  #109  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 477
Default

Originally Posted by seahorse View Post
No outboard company gives those figures out.

Unless something changed in the past year, the last I heard was Merc is #1 in all US outboard sales, Yamaha is a close #2 (#1 in the saltwater market), Suzuki in the last few years moved up to #3 mostly due to low prices, Evinrude is #4, and Honda is #5 and Tohatsu #6 (but that may change very soon if not already)
Funny you figure this.

I live on a Major Border Town in Central USA/Canada. American Tourists cross back into the US weekend through out the summer months, towing fishing boats, the Line Up can reach 3-4 miles long. I drove down it today, today's line up was about 1.5-2 miles, maybe 50 Fishing Rigs from Northern USA. MN, WS,IL,OH,MI.

Of course the majority were Mercs, but second by a long shot were Evinrudes, followed by Yamaha, maybe 2 Hondas, no Zukes. I know it's not Scientific by any means but Mercury buys a lot of Transoms in the Lund Crestliner Home States, if it wasn't for that, who knows what outcome would have been.
InCogKneeToe is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:35 PM
  #110  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,515
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Like I say, I have zero against the product itself, from a function standpoint. But were I buying a new boat or repowering, and resale was of any concern at all, I would look at every other option, specifically because they are 4 strokes, and that's what the market wants.
If 4-strokes is what "the market wants" then there would be ZERO 2-stroke sales. Right? But there is more than ZERO 2-stroke sales so apparently "the market" wants something more than JUST 4-strokes. And if the market just wants 4-strokes, then the EPA can repeal all of its emissions regulations cause they don't need them.
Whaler27 is online now  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:46 PM
  #111  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 834
Default

If the EPA repealed its emission regs we'd have some killer 2 strokes again.
NC_Native likes this.
tmd11111 is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:01 PM
  #112  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,465
Default

Originally Posted by Whaler27 View Post
If 4-strokes is what "the market wants" then there would be ZERO 2-stroke sales. Right? But there is more than ZERO 2-stroke sales so apparently "the market" wants something more than JUST 4-strokes. And if the market just wants 4-strokes, then the EPA can repeal all of its emissions regulations cause they don't need them.
I guess..........if 3.7% market share is your goal. Considering the very small number of players in the outboard market thatís abysmal. I donít necessarily think itís foolish for Evinrude to make a nice 2 stroke. Itís definitely a good motor. I just think itís foolish for them to put all their efforts into that, and ignore that the market as a whole is wanting 4-strokes. Seems a bit self centered for them to take the ďwe are smarter than our potential customersĒ approach. Rarely has that worked out historically.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:10 PM
  #113  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gretna, LA, USA
Posts: 6,235
Default

Originally Posted by tmd11111 View Post
If the EPA repealed its emission regs we'd have some killer 2 strokes again.
Killer? As in better than the competition in every measurable, quantifiable aspect? Welcome to 2019. The EPA is why you have substandard 4 strokes. EVERY outboard manufacturer produced 2 strokes prior to the green movement. The EPA forced changes. Now we have car engines and one company with superior tech. Yeah, let's all bash the company that is winning in the engineering department and keeping outboards in the broadest power band available while the others do what they can to keep up. Got it.

Congrats though to the other manufacturers for getting close to the same performance after a few decades of trying.
Ric232 and Wicked4659 like this.
trout25red is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:11 PM
  #114  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 949
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


I guess..........if 3.7% market share is your goal. Considering the very small number of players in the outboard market thatís abysmal. I donít necessarily think itís foolish for Evinrude to make a nice 2 stroke. Itís definitely a good motor. I just think itís foolish for them to put all their efforts into that, and ignore that the market as a whole is wanting 4-strokes. Seems a bit self centered for them to take the ďwe are smarter than our potential customersĒ approach. Rarely has that worked out historically.
Under 150hp I'm hardcore etec. 4 strokes just can't compare in performance.

I have twin zuke 350s and I freaking hate the maintenance schedule. $1900 every 100 hours. Rude oil would be $650 per 100 hours. Why did I get zukes, damn steering issue on G2 SCARED me away
joediaz likes this.
Brocnizer1 is online now  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:17 PM
  #115  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
OffshoreApparel.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,399
Default

Originally Posted by Brocnizer1 View Post
Under 150hp I'm hardcore etec. 4 strokes just can't compare in performance.

I have twin zuke 350s and I freaking hate the maintenance schedule. $1900 every 100 hours. Rude oil would be $650 per 100 hours. Why did I get zukes, damn steering issue on G2 SCARED me away
If it really scares you that badly, you can choose not to run the integrated steering. Merc has more issues with their steering than BRP. You can order engines without steering and run whatever you choose...Optimus, hydraulic, etc.


.
OffshoreApparel.com is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:23 PM
  #116  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Wilson, NC
Posts: 416
Default

Originally Posted by Brocnizer1 View Post
Under 150hp I'm hardcore etec. 4 strokes just can't compare in performance.

I have twin zuke 350s and I freaking hate the maintenance schedule. $1900 every 100 hours. Rude oil would be $650 per 100 hours. Why did I get zukes, damn steering issue on G2 SCARED me away
What in the heck costs $1900 to do? I've had my Suzuki DF70 for almost 20 years and I haven't spent a total of $1900 on it over that entire period.
NC_Native is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 06:55 PM
  #117  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 949
Default

Originally Posted by NC_Native View Post
What in the heck costs $1900 to do? I've had my Suzuki DF70 for almost 20 years and I haven't spent a total of $1900 on it over that entire period.
Welcome to the 4 stroke world
My first pair and I'm not liking it

Hey Evinrude, want a marketing plan?



strap the 300s on my boat and I'll tell everyone why 4 strokes aren't as cool as everyone makes them to be.


Brocnizer1 is online now  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:00 PM
  #118  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 949
Default

Originally Posted by OffshoreApparel.com View Post


If it really scares you that badly, you can choose not to run the integrated steering. Merc has more issues with their steering than BRP. You can order engines without steering and run whatever you choose...Optimus, hydraulic, etc.


.
​​​​​​
i was never given that option and didn't know I could

I've only seen 4 300s by me local. All four had steering fail offshore. It was a real concern for me
Brocnizer1 is online now  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:01 PM
  #119  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 10,465
Default

Originally Posted by Brocnizer1 View Post
Under 150hp I'm hardcore etec. 4 strokes just can't compare in performance.

I have twin zuke 350s and I freaking hate the maintenance schedule. $1900 every 100 hours. Rude oil would be $650 per 100 hours. Why did I get zukes, damn steering issue on G2 SCARED me away
you are either paying nasa engineers to maintain your boat, or paying for a lot of labor to pull the boat, service it, and relaunch. Assuming the latter.

As I've mentioned a few times. There is nothing wrong with the current evinrude offerings, other than their go to market strategy, which is 180 degrees off from what the bulk of the market is asking for. Their abysmal market share reflects this.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 06-14-2019, 07:14 PM
  #120  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 949
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


you are either paying nasa engineers to maintain your boat, or paying for a lot of labor to pull the boat, service it, and relaunch. Assuming the latter.

As I've mentioned a few times. There is nothing wrong with the current evinrude offerings, other than their go to market strategy, which is 180 degrees off from what the bulk of the market is asking for. Their abysmal market share reflects this.
$850 per motor plus tax for 100 hour

No pulling out. No NASA engineer. My brother n law pays the same for his Yamaha f250 every 100
Wicked4659 likes this.

Last edited by Brocnizer1; 06-14-2019 at 07:36 PM.
Brocnizer1 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread