Notices
Like Tree47Likes

New Blackfin Owners

Old 05-24-2019, 03:29 AM
  #41  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 3,979
Default

So they didn’t buy the Blackfin company, they bought the right to use the Blackfin name........

and ill I’ll ask yet again, if Monterey is proud of their fishing line of boats, why aren’t they called Monterey’s?

Do do you think possibly they are “hiding” the fact to the casual buyer? Why not put up big banners saying “come look at the new Monterey line of CC boats!”

The name Blackfin stands for something......something legendary in the pocket sport fisherman history. That’s all nothing more......
Fish'nFool and njk4o5 like this.
offshorebri is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 04:08 AM
  #42  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Creek, TX
Posts: 890
Default

Originally Posted by modernimage View Post
There are at least two types of boaters responding to this thread. Type one are guys who have been boating for 30+ years, have been out in stuff that scared the shit out of them, run to the canyons or the Bahamas every year multiple times, have fixed all the crap that goes wrong when 50 miles offshore, and have helped a fellow boater get off the rocks and keep his boat from sinking at some point, etc. The second type are guys who are relatively casual boaters, probably stay within sight of land 99% of the time, like to take the grand kids fishing but never fished a tournament in their lives, and their wife would divorce them if they ever went out into some real 4-5' seas. You guys decide who is who. The first type of guys know who is who and don't really need to discuss it or defend their opinions relative to boats or recycled brand names.
You forgot the 3rd and 4th type people.

3rd - those of us that have been in the Navy and could take your 4-5' waves and laugh at them. Ever been through the Straits of Gibralter with a 28 degree roll in a storm and had to do a sounding on deck where they tied you to a rope in case they needed to pull your dead body back onto the boat?

My point being, this type person does not like to discount someone's input because they played it safe and never went out or never happened to get caught in waves that made them pucker.

The 4th are people that don't have an opinion, but like to discredit others with zero logic. You figure out which they are.

A boat is only as good as the level of care it is given being made, and being maintained....neither of which is more important than the other. The OP, while not wanting to make an argument, defended his concept of this boat and drew himself into it. That is okay... but can't start a fire, feed it, and then say you do not understand why it started.

Bottom line: I have seen awesome 'legend' boats that have become crap because they were built bad the day they rolled off the line.. i.e. a Parker...does not mean they are bad boats, means there was a bad day. I have seen awesome boats... we all have.. every day, come up for sale and we are saddened by the level of care, or lack of, to get them in the shape they are. That happens, people 'gossip' about how they saw a boat that looked like hell...and all of a sudden, "Those boats do not hold up well".

Get the boat you love, make sure it is solid. Take care of it and never go cheap on it's care, and you will end up with a "Mercedes" and it will stay that way.

A Hyundai can BE a Mercedes... just maybe not as smooth...as fast.. as comfortable. That is all perspective and price. Get a boat that is rough, you will always have a rough boat. Get one that is posh...keep it that way.. make it that way if you can.

Asking people to accept or comment on stuff like this ends in haters and arguments and never good.

ok, back to my coffee...

Russ
jrbarnard is online now  
Old 05-24-2019, 04:24 AM
  #43  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 583
Default

I looked a the new blackfin 332 and liked it. I just thought for the money they wanted there are other boats out there that are a better boat for the same price and this was boat show pricing.
24seachaser is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:15 AM
  #44  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: savannah georgia
Posts: 2,270
Default

Originally Posted by offshorebri View Post
So they didnít buy the Blackfin company, they bought the right to use the Blackfin name........

and ill Iíll ask yet again, if Monterey is proud of their fishing line of boats, why arenít they called Montereyís?

Do do you think possibly they are ďhidingĒ the fact to the casual buyer? Why not put up big banners saying ďcome look at the new Monterey line of CC boats!Ē

The name Blackfin stands for something......something legendary in the pocket sport fisherman history. Thatís all nothing more......
makes sense to me, but not always the case-
perfect example, Viking's new line of Center Consoles.... personally, i stick with your theory, i would have just referred to them as Vikings.... Perfect name recognition!! but instead they market them under a different name,Valhalla Boatworks..
still scratching my head over that one....
i
empty canibal is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:30 AM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,214
Default

Originally Posted by uke View Post
A sportsman 252 is 4100 lbs. A Blackfin 242 is 5400 pounds.
You realize that heavier doesn't mean better...it simply means, well, heavier.
jrbarnard likes this.
cape_fisherman is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:40 AM
  #46  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: savannah georgia
Posts: 2,270
Default

Originally Posted by cape_fisherman View Post
You realize that heavier doesn't mean better...it simply means, well, heavier.
more weight = better ride.
less weight = better fuel economy.
i don't think many will dispute that, all boats are compromises, one must chose what is more important to them.
jrbarnard likes this.
empty canibal is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:49 AM
  #47  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Creek, TX
Posts: 890
Default

Originally Posted by cape_fisherman View Post
You realize that heavier doesn't mean better...it simply means, well, heavier.
That can be true, but it does not mean his statement is incorrect. Either way, moot point as one person's better is another person's "not so much".

Personal perspective.
jrbarnard is online now  
Old 05-24-2019, 06:34 AM
  #48  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Palm Beach County
Posts: 9,241
Default

Iíve looked at them at the boat shows. For the price you can get a used, proven hull for less money. With the power and electronics you want.

People mention cobia in this thread they are over hyped, Iíd class them with sportsman. I have a friend with one. IMO it was priced right and itís a nice boat. Itís around 5 years old and the depreciation was drastic. Itís hard for me to think the same thing wonít happen to these boats.

One final item. Donít pay attention to the guys talking about the old blackfin. Those guys want you off their grass. Time passed them by years ago.
scooperfl and Fish'nFool like this.

Last edited by WPBTH; 05-24-2019 at 06:55 AM.
WPBTH is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 06:49 AM
  #49  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,140
Default

Originally Posted by empty canibal View Post
more weight = better ride.
less weight = better fuel economy.
i don't think many will dispute that, all boats are compromises, one must chose what is more important to them.
Not necessarily. With newer hull shapes (variable deadrise/warped plane, vented, cat), weight is not as helpful as it once was as we are not trying to smash through the waves anymore.

Even with a traditional deep vee, increased weight meant increased wet, which is fine if you are in a 50 sporty, but not so good if your in a Regulator or SV classic.
cape_fisherman likes this.
scooperfl is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:21 AM
  #50  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: savannah georgia
Posts: 2,270
Default

Originally Posted by scooperfl View Post
Not necessarily. With newer hull shapes (variable deadrise/warped plane, vented, cat), weight is not as helpful as it once was as we are not trying to smash through the waves anymore.

Even with a traditional deep vee, increased weight meant increased wet, which is fine if you are in a 50 sporty, but not so good if your in a Regulator or SV classic.
uummmm, respecfully disagree...... why do you Regulators ride so good compared to the other similar sized competitors? WEIGHT. plus a Lou Codega design, one of the best sir...
empty canibal is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:22 AM
  #51  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: savannah georgia
Posts: 2,270
Default

Originally Posted by WPBTH View Post
Iíve looked at them at the boat shows. For the price you can get a used, proven hull for less money. With the power and electronics you want.

People mention cobia in this thread they are over hyped, Iíd class them with sportsman. I have a friend with one. IMO it was priced right and itís a nice boat. Itís around 5 years old and the depreciation was drastic. Itís hard for me to think the same thing wonít happen to these boats.

One final item. Donít pay attention to the guys talking about the old blackfin. Those guys want you off their grass. Time passed them by years ago.
maybe time has past us by, OK sir, you obviously never owned one, or you would understand...
empty canibal is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:44 AM
  #52  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Default

Originally Posted by offshorebri View Post
and ill I’ll ask yet again, if Monterey is proud of their fishing line of boats, why aren’t they called Monterey’s?
Good question, not sure anyone outside of Blackfin can answer it, but go ahead and keep asking it. I think the legacy owners wouldn’t accept ANY answer regardless, it’d just be more fodder for argument.

I’m not a business guy, but the concept of a parent company operating a subsidiary under a different/original name is not new and well represented in commerce. Acura is really a Honda, Audi, Porshe and Lamborghinis are VWs (well…VW Group…I’ll pause while y’all finish your Google search to verify that last one…you back? good), Infiniti is a Nissan/Mitsubishi, Lexus is a Toyota, the list goes on. Not that uncommon really for a mid-tier to market/sell/operate a higher-tier product under a subsidiary logo, it preserves customer base, widens their market, jobs, all that crap, etcetera. When Facebook bought Instagram and WhatsApp, they preserved the origin names as well, as the brand IS where the value resides (I may have inadvertently answered your question from paragraph 1...look at that).

Probably also affords additional bankruptcy protections if one company goes under, and a litany of other sound business reasons that my uneducated mind can’t envision. I’m sure there are differences between how Blackfin/Monterey did it from the other companies I listed, but let’s not get wrapped around the axle over the minutiae fellas. Y’all should be prepping for your long boating weekend anyway, and not Google’ing the origin of Lamborghini. Have a drink(s) in honor of the fallen this weekend.



Cstone915 is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:55 AM
  #53  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,679
Default

Originally Posted by offshorebri View Post
......and ill I’ll ask yet again, if Monterey is proud of their fishing line of boats, why aren’t they called Monterey’s?
For the same reason that Robalo isn't called Chaparral, Aquasport isn't called Ebtide, Chris Craft isn't called Winnebago, Wellcraft isn't called Beneteau, Cobia isn't called Maverick, etc., etc., etc.

Simply put, it's the use of a respected brand with a long, recognizable history in a specific segment. It's for the same reason Chinese electronics manufacturers, instead of using Ha-Wei-Chi-Do as a brand, they'll use Magnavox or Zenith.
Cstone915 likes this.
Commocean is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:05 AM
  #54  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Default

Originally Posted by empty canibal View Post
maybe time has past us by, OK sir, you obviously never owned one, or you would understand...
Touchť kind Sir. I am totally stealing this quote for when legacy owners complain about my new Blackfin. Thank you for that gem ��
Cstone915 is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 10:32 AM
  #55  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: savannah georgia
Posts: 2,270
Default

Originally Posted by Cstone915 View Post


Touchť kind Sir. I am totally stealing this quote for when legacy owners complain about my new Blackfin. Thank you*for that gem 😁
*nobody is complaining about "your new Blackfin".....If your happy, I'm happy for you! I'm sure all of the legacy owners feel the same way, i don't think any of us legacy owners are really bashing the boat either.
disagree about roots, history, marketing? yes.....
* *and you are correct about the name thing as compared to cars, yes, agreed, completely understood... it's a marketing thing...
it is just my opinion, what really gets the legacy owners fired up, is that the originals were conceived for the man (in this vintage of time, very important to understand) who had either a large Bertram, hatteras, viking, or custom, who wanted a smaller boat, but without making compromise of yacht like quality or performance. So when the originals came out, they really had no true competition, because there was nothing really on the market to compare to them. At that time, nobody ever had seen Hawse pipes, ellis rudder design, 10" cleats, bow pulpits, towers with 3" piping on tower bases, or even diesel inboard power options on boats under 30'. then they had to go to sea to back up all of this massive construction and prove themselves to the world. They had to earn their reputation, nobody really even marketed them that well. they became so far ahead of there time that they became known as "the standard by which all others are judged"..* The boats were designed to be the fulfillment of an ideal, not a monthly payment formula... ultimately at the end, they became so expensive that they literally priced themselves out of the market by being so expensive... newer buyers couldn't justify buying a 32' Blackfin when they could buy a 32' Luhrs for 150K less money.
* either way, enjoy your new Blackfin... there is alot of legendary boating history in that name.. Kudos to Monterey for using the name as well.
empty canibal is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 11:14 AM
  #56  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 948
Default

I think what gets people fired up is that there is nothing about the new boats that has anything to do with Blackfin other than the name.

Viking is coming out with a center console. However, it is a new boat line produced by the same company that continues to produce the sportfishers that made their reputation. Completely different scenario.

As a former 29 Combi owner, I just recognize that this is a name only. May be a great boat but has nothing to do with the established Blackfin reputation.
mintregila is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 02:54 PM
  #57  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,679
Default

Originally Posted by mintregila View Post
May be a great boat but has nothing to do with the established Blackfin reputation.
I'm not defending the brand by any stretch, as I've never even seen one in person, but look at the success MBC has built with Cobia for example. It may very well be a better boat today than it was originally. Monterey would never be taken seriously as a brand in the center console segment, nor would Chaparral, but the Blackfin and Robalo branding commands that credibility. Most of the boating public has no clue who owns what, but they certainly recognize the brand, and that's what sells. It may not be your dad's Blackfin, but to most folks, it's a Blackfin nonetheless.
Commocean is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 03:18 PM
  #58  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 3,059
Default

Why then is Hatteras calling their smaller boats... Cabo's ?
LongIslandFisherman is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 04:36 PM
  #59  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 3,979
Default

[QUOTE=Cstone915;12559022]


Good question, not sure anyone outside of Blackfin can answer it, but go ahead and keep asking it. I think the legacy owners wouldnít accept ANY answer regardless, itíd just be more fodder for argument.

Iím not a business guy, but the concept of a parent company operating a subsidiary under a different/original name is not new and well represented in commerce. Acura is really a Honda, Audi, Porshe and Lamborghinis are VWs (wellÖVW GroupÖIíll pause while yíall finish your Google search to verify that last oneÖyou back? good), Infiniti is a Nissan/Mitsubishi, Lexus is a Toyota, the list goes on. Not that uncommon really for a mid-tier to market/sell/operate a higher-tier product under a subsidiary logo, it preserves customer base, widens their market, jobs, all that crap, etcetera. When Facebook bought Instagram and WhatsApp, they preserved the origin names as well, as the brand IS where the value resides (I may have inadvertently answered your question from paragraph 1...look at that).

Probably also affords additional bankruptcy protections if one company goes under, and a litany of other sound business reasons that my uneducated mind canít envision. Iím sure there are differences between how Blackfin/Monterey did it from the other companies I listed, but letís not get wrapped around the axle over the minutiae fellas. Yíall should be prepping for your long boating weekend anyway, and not Googleíing the origin of Lamborghini. Have a drink(s) in honor of the fallen this weekend.



Your completely missing the entire point. A parent company owning a subsidiary is not we are talking about. Honda doesnít name their other company Ferrari do they? Monterey is using SOMEBODY elseís good name.........they are riding the coat tails of another name. Why canít they build and sell on their own reputation? Of just come up with a new name? Like Viking just did. Great example. Thatís the problem I have. Viking didnít come out with a new line and call them Carolina classics?




offshorebri is offline  
Old 05-24-2019, 04:58 PM
  #60  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Default

I might not know much about business, but I found the one guy who knows even less than me...

No...in your scenario Honda would have bought Ferrari and then continued to run it as Ferrari...thank you for validating my point since that's exactly what Monterey did. They didn't slap the name Monterey on existing Blackfins. Blackfin is most definitely a subsidiary of Monterey, so it's exactly what we're talking about.

Owning a subsidiary doesn't mean the subsidiary is spawned from within the parent company. To the contrary, most start as independent companies and are bought-out by another company that starts to run both...but keeps the brand name of the subsidiary intact...EXACTLY how Monterey did it. Doesn't matter how defiantly dense you remain on an unaffiliated forum, asking other sportsman the same rhetorical question. You have all the information you need but you refuse to see the logic because you don't like/agree with Monterey's business model. Another post listed several boat manufacturers that did the same thing, but those other brands don't trigger your irritation...so keep repeating the same question on here expecting a different answer. Holding your breath and stomping your feet as you repeatedly type "but why can't Monterey just use their own NAAAAMMMEEE..." doesn't change the answer. I mean, you're not going to make some protest signs and go outside Monterey HQ are you? It's simply not our call, it doesn't have to make sense to any of us, we're not in "the loop" on Blackfin/Monterey business decisions. You can "flex your consumer muscle" and show your distaste by not purchasing their product...the counterbalance to capitalism.
Cstone915 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread