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150 Ocean Runner - falls on face after trolling

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150 Ocean Runner - falls on face after trolling

Old 05-19-2019, 08:55 AM
  #21  
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I was only able to test fuel pressure at idle yesterday, but it would bounce from around 3-4psi to nearly 0. Is that normal? It seemed somewhat normal to me because when the carbs called for fuel and you could see it start flowing, that is when the pressure went up. I thought I was supposed to see more like 5psi though.

Here is a quick video.
Old 05-19-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fishbottom View Post
also most of the after market non original brand fuel bulbs arent the best. even a new one may not work.

also with some motors the fuel bulb wont work unless it is in a vertical position. that is important. and of course make sure the arrow is pointed the right way.

since pumping helps then it can be an air leak or possible no air getting to the fuel tank itself and needs vented.

sometimes fuel pumps go and act intermittently and drive you crazy. they are relatively cheap to replace compared to the anxiety.

of course pull plugs and look at them. never hurt to do that. and as said 2 strokes have problems from trolling too long with them.
I’ve tried several fuel bulbs and they all seemed to be working fine.

Plugs are new champions

Fuel vent is working for sure, and the feed line is new but I’m going to double check it. I have a new anti syphon valve to add this week as well.
Old 05-21-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by silverbullet87 View Post
I was only able to test fuel pressure at idle yesterday, but it would bounce from around 3-4psi to nearly 0. Is that normal? It seemed somewhat normal to me because when the carbs called for fuel and you could see it start flowing, that is when the pressure went up. I thought I was supposed to see more like 5psi though.

Here is a quick video.
https://youtu.be/nKjAD-U2TIg
Any thoughts on this sketchy looking fuel pressure @ idle?
Old 05-21-2019, 01:27 PM
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I dont like the fuel pressure dropping like that,I would try it again after replacing the syphon valve,It looks like the fuel is shutting off the fuel pump is a small chance that it is causing it but I would first replace the valve and then retest.
Old 05-21-2019, 01:39 PM
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I had a similar issue with a Johnson 115 or 100 not exactly sure of the hp rating. But basically it would try to plane up and would bog down and stall. I changed fuel lines and the power pack and primer bulb. After about $200 I found out the lower left cylinder was leaking so much compression because the bimbo that owned it before me stripped the threads for the spark plug hole. Did a quick fix and sold it because when people that don’t know what they are doing get inside these motors not only do they don’t fix the problem but they cause another in the process. Sold it for what I got it for and showed the owner the issue. Never called back so I think the job I did held up. Now I got a 50hp mercury which has its own set of problems and of course somebody got into it and is making my life a lot harder
Old 05-22-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dogslife View Post
I dont like the fuel pressure dropping like that,I would try it again after replacing the syphon valve,It looks like the fuel is shutting off the fuel pump is a small chance that it is causing it but I would first replace the valve and then retest.
I'm more of a fuel injection guy so a carb fuel system is a bit of a learning experience for me. I my mind it should hold a constant fuel pressure so the carbs have fuel available. I can understand a small dip when fuel is requested by the carbs, but down to nearly 0 seems off.

I'll have it in the water this weekend, so i'll be able to do a few more tests at speed to see how it looks.
Old 05-22-2019, 01:31 PM
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You sound like an experience mechanic so pardon me if this overstates the obvious
Plugs
Champion and other brands offer at least 3 different plugs for the same engine. These vary in heat ranges and will usually take care of a fouling/carbon problem if you get into the specifics that guys at the counter will normally not do for you when you buy. Oily black plug faces meas you need hotter plugs white carbon means your are too hot. This was a prolbem on my Johnson and Evinrude.
Primer Bulbs
OEM original primer balls and hose assemblies should stay hard in any position after you have hand primed the engine, and continue to stay hard while engines are running. Perkos and others are tempermental.
If the OEM ball is not hard you are most likely getting an hose fitting air leak or your pump diaphram or seal are compromised. Fuel filter oring seal and fuel filter fittings will easily pass air and all small hose clamps will need to be retightened, as they will feel tight installed, then two days later feel loose again as the hose conforms in time to its barbed fittings.Salted over fuel vents will also soften the ball.
This were prolems on my Johnson and Evinrude too.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:47 PM
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On a 20 foot boat, I have a 150 Johnson 2 stroke. Top RPM for me is 5700. Idle at 900. 14.5 x 17 ss prop. Top speed is 42-43. Cruise rpm is 3500. What are you doing for fuel filters? I have a separator plus the internal filter. Running ethanol free mid grade, stabil, sea foam, NGKs and XD50. Every year it takes about 20 miles of good heat in the engine to make it run right, then it is fine the rest of the year. Not sure why it does this, but always has.
Did you replace with the correct fuel line size? 5/8BTW, had the optical sensor go out and it would only run for about an 1/8 of a mile at a time, but it did run.
Old 05-22-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nccoaster View Post
On a 20 foot boat, I have a 150 Johnson 2 stroke. Top RPM for me is 5700. Idle at 900. 14.5 x 17 ss prop. Top speed is 42-43. Cruise rpm is 3500. What are you doing for fuel filters? I have a separator plus the internal filter. Running ethanol free mid grade, stabil, sea foam, NGKs and XD50. Every year it takes about 20 miles of good heat in the engine to make it run right, then it is fine the rest of the year. Not sure why it does this, but always has.
Did you replace with the correct fuel line size? 5/8BTW, had the optical sensor go out and it would only run for about an 1/8 of a mile at a time, but it did run.
That is more so what I would expect. This is an 18ft CC with a 15 x 17 only hitting 4200 @ 33mph. It feels like something is wrong. (I did confirm all cylinders are sparking, @ idle at least)

Originally Posted by Bullshipper View Post
You sound like an experience mechanic so pardon me if this overstates the obvious
Plugs
Champion and other brands offer at least 3 different plugs for the same engine. These vary in heat ranges and will usually take care of a fouling/carbon problem if you get into the specifics that guys at the counter will normally not do for you when you buy. Oily black plug faces meas you need hotter plugs white carbon means your are too hot. This was a prolbem on my Johnson and Evinrude.
Primer Bulbs
OEM original primer balls and hose assemblies should stay hard in any position after you have hand primed the engine, and continue to stay hard while engines are running. Perkos and others are tempermental.
If the OEM ball is not hard you are most likely getting an hose fitting air leak or your pump diaphram or seal are compromised. Fuel filter oring seal and fuel filter fittings will easily pass air and all small hose clamps will need to be retightened, as they will feel tight installed, then two days later feel loose again as the hose conforms in time to its barbed fittings.Salted over fuel vents will also soften the ball.
This were prolems on my Johnson and Evinrude too.
Thanks for the info. I've actually never seen a primer bulb stay hard while running but maybe i've never had OEM. I'll have plenty of free time this weekend so I'll continue to research the whole system.
Old 06-16-2019, 06:00 AM
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Does this timing setting look normal?


Old 07-12-2019, 06:58 AM
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I've done quite a bit of work trying to sort his motor out since the last time I posted.


I ran the boat at idle for a while, then drained the fuel bulbs to make sure each was calling for fuel correctly. I didn't find anything weird here.

Then I pulled all the carbs, rechecked floats and made sure everything was operational and clean. I did notice that I added those extra washers under the seat when I rebuilt the carbs, so I removed those and adjusted the floats again. This didn't seem to make any changes.

I re-adjusted the low speed idle screws on each carb to about 5 3/4 turns IIRC.

Then I ran the boat for a day or two and it was just OK. It randomly shut off at idle once (just shut off completely w/ no warning) and I'm still only getting 4300 RPM max @ 33mph. It also bogged at one point for a short moment. I did notice my check engine light is going on and off frequently... the buzzer must not be working. I've read that this is a sign of a fuel restriction or air getting into the system. These problems have always pointed to a fuel issue so this makes sense.

I disconnected the fuel line, and ran it off an external tank with a different fuel bulb, connected directly to the filter on the motor. The CEL continued to come on during that test period. I only ran about 2-3 miles and I swear it nearly drained the 5 gal tank to my surprise. Maybe i'm just not used to seeing how much fuel is getting used, but it doesn't seem like there is any sort of "restriction' haha.

Anyways - now that I know the fuel system up to the motor fuel filter is sound, i'm not sure where to look next for this fuel restriction... (the filter is clean)
Old 07-12-2019, 08:59 AM
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CEL or alarm on and off in about 1 second intervals means VRO issues or fuel line air leak.

A continuous alarm means either an overheat condition or a fuel restriction.

NO oil would be a continuous beeping 1/2 second on - 1/2 second off. Low oil would be a beep every 20 seconds.
Old 07-12-2019, 09:08 AM
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The light goes ON and OFF randomly and there is certainly no pattern to it.

I know it's not overheating. It has fresh thermostats and i've confirmed they are working with a IR gun. I was monitoring the cyl temps to make sure all 6 are firing @ idle which seems to be the case, and I could see the temps drop when the thermostats kicked in.

I assume it is pointing to a fuel restriction because that is what my problem feels like... but where would the restriction be if it's not before the motor? or is it an air leak... I've had the whole VRO / Fuel plate off twice now looking for anything suspect and haven't found it.
Old 07-25-2019, 02:53 PM
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Can anyone recommend a trusty mechanic in the PA / NJ / MD area? I've given up, but I don't want to hand it over to the standard shop that wants to throw parts at it - basically like I am at this point. I'm looking for that old salty guy that knows exactly how these motors should run and knows the proper steps to getting there. Does that guy exist still?

Even if someone could just diagnose it properly thats all i'd need. I have the mechanically ability to replace / fix things, but I just can't figure out what the hell is wrong with it.
Old 07-25-2019, 03:54 PM
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I still suspect carb issue.
Old 07-26-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by El Comandante View Post
I still suspect carb issue.
I took them all off and went through them again. It's a pretty simple setup so I can't see anything i'd be missing.
Old 07-26-2019, 07:09 AM
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What about fuel pumps ?
Old 07-26-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ggreeby View Post
What about fuel pumps ?
It's just 1 pump on the motor, and it's sucking fuel just fine. I've run through the test procedures as well and it passes.
Old 07-26-2019, 11:43 AM
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I had this same problem and it wasn't fuel related. It was this 16" wire assembly that told the boat to shift (forward, neutral, or reverse) it keeps the boat at low idle to protect the lower unit. The sending module in it was bad. I think like $75 and three connections and I was back in business. I could be totally wrong but just wanted to share. I don't remember what the assembly was called.
Old 07-27-2019, 05:35 AM
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Screen in pickup tube of fuel tank can get clogged with debris.
Does bulb go flat? Restriction
not flat....poor fuel pump, air leak into line, filter screen after bulb

Did you put right jets in carbs??? Right kit?

stator cause intermittent issues too.



Last edited by mbb; 07-27-2019 at 05:42 AM.

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