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Marina refusing to release boat to me, is this legal?

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Marina refusing to release boat to me, is this legal?

Old 04-15-2019, 07:23 AM
  #881  
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Originally Posted by RLC2020 View Post
I get enjoyment out of taking older boats and fixing them up, using them for a season or two and then selling them, usually for a profit. I put in a ton of time and effort to fix them up and that is why I do okay when I choose to sell them. This is also how I can afford boating even though I have an almost 2 year old son and we just bought a new house and I really shouldn't spend the money. Attached is a picture of my last boat, a 31' Chris Craft Commander which I bought for only $4k (it was a mess) and did a full rehab on it. Removed the flybridge, rewired both engines and completely redid the steering set up. Sold it 2 years later for 3 times what I had into it to a guy that trucked it all the way to Key West. I know the Silverton is not nearly as much of a classic, but I have a nostalgic tie to these boats and enjoy fixing them up.
Most of us shouldn't spend all the money we do on boats, but that's each individual's prerogative and it's up to them on what a boat costs vs what they get out of it.

I seriously doubt you sold any of these for more than you put into them, if you valued your time like a business. But that's OK. I do the same thing with a lot of stuff. I can't even remember how many useless toys I've repaired and "wasted" hours and hours of work on just because I thought it would be cool to see some kids enjoy it.

However, from a business perspective, that's all wasted resources. From a business perspective, they'd just sell the engine on the boat and crush the hull. The value to them for that same boat is listed in single-digit hundreds. What most miss when they say "you got a steal" or "you paid half price" is that the full price is based on what that boat is worth TO YOU. No business would value it anywhere near that and likely no other buyer. You probably bought it at a reasonable open market value, in not paid a bit more than that.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RLC2020 View Post
Yes, that pic is from the craigslist ad. The boat is 3 deep and isn't going anywhere until a very large houseboat is moved from behind it.

Again, Perhaps I wasn't clear enough when I clarified this several times. I bought the boat for what it was worth AS IT SAT. but, I believe that with some repairs and a lot of elbow grease it will be worth double what I paid for it. So I got it for half of what it's worth, but only after all repairs are made. I look at the potential value in things and am willing to put the effort in to get there. If anything, I overpaid for it as it sat even without the yard bill that I was not aware of. When you factor the yard bill in then I overpaid by almost $2k. How does that make me greedy? I valued the boat at 5-6k when finished, in the water, turn key, waxed, painted, etc... Its worth half that currently out of the water with lots and lots of work needed.

I do not go into a dealership and say "here's my check book, I would like boat please" I get them that need work and do the work to make them nice.

I get enjoyment out of taking older boats and fixing them up, using them for a season or two and then selling them, usually for a profit. I put in a ton of time and effort to fix them up and that is why I do okay when I choose to sell them. This is also how I can afford boating even though I have an almost 2 year old son and we just bought a new house and I really shouldn't spend the money. Attached is a picture of my last boat, a 31' Chris Craft Commander which I bought for only $4k (it was a mess) and did a full rehab on it. Removed the flybridge, rewired both engines and completely redid the steering set up. Sold it 2 years later for 3 times what I had into it to a guy that trucked it all the way to Key West. I know the Silverton is not nearly as much of a classic, but I have a nostalgic tie to these boats and enjoy fixing them up.
On no, no. I didn’t say you are greedy. Greed is what motivates us to drive to the farther away marina for cheaper fuel. That drive has a risk associated with it that is balanced by the reward of more money in our pockets. That doesn’t make one greedy. I was speaking of greed in this way; the psychological motivator for a “deal.” In this case you took a risk, and it turned out poorly for you. But that shouldn’t mean you can transfer your risk to the yard. The yard owner didn’t get to decide if he wanted to share the risk. I guess one could say he took on risk at the beginning of the season. But his was mitigated by the fact that he’s got the boat as collateral. You took the risk that the boat was unencumbered. Your risk was not mitigated by possession.
its a crappy situation for sure. The seller is primarily responsible as I’m sure he knew what he was doing to you.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:34 AM
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OP , sit down talk to the owner /manager Being nice will help and see what they will do . If you get ugly it won't help . I would pay what ever is decided sometimes you have to suck up the losses . The boat is now in your name so now your liable or any costs incurred since . If you walk away they can go after you . But I sure would go after the seller .


There are three sides to this yours , the marinas and the sellers .
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by prowlersfish View Post
OP , sit down talk to the owner /manager Being nice will help and see what they will do . If you get ugly it won't help . I would pay what ever is decided sometimes you have to suck up the losses . The boat is now in your name so now your liable or any costs incurred since . If you walk away they can go after you . But I sure would go after the seller .


There are three sides to this yours , the marinas and the sellers .
* four sides
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:46 AM
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Here is a thought. Take your wife and young son in to talk with the owner. If he is any kind of decent person, he won't be an ass in front of them when you're being reasonable and trying to work with him. If he's still and ass in front of them - then you can go the hardball route with the writ of possession that the police mentioned and force them to take your boat in good conscious. The big thing is to be calm and not let him stir you to anger.

Good luck. In light of some of the posts in this thread, you are taking and handling it well so far. As someone else said, there are people on this site who revel in other people's misery and/or misfortune. It says more about them than you.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mystery View Post
no, just no, you dont get it, your hypothetical sucks

that is blatant fraud and if two people are working like that, concocting a plan to defraud the business, they could possibly be criminally charged

this thread is serving as a great way to figure out who needs to go on the THT ignore list

so many people lacking common sense and offering bad/incorrect information/advice!
Of course it sucks and of course it is fraud but again.....that's not the discussion nor is the hypothetical meant for advice for the OP. OK.....I'll type SLOW so you can understand. Take a deep breath, and pop a Ritalin so you can stay focused and find it within yourself the capability of following a conversation.

The question that the hypothetical points out is simply "would the marina have the right to hold the boat, not knowing of the fraudulent plan"? The hypothetical scheme could easily be perpetrated upon thousands of marinas every year if the marina doesn't have the right to hold the boat. Why? Because the marina has no idea of the previous sales and schemes. They simply want to be paid for services.

Now...as I said in previous posts...I am not claiming the marina has the right to hold the boat. I have cited maritime law that appears to say that a legal lien does not have to be recorded in order to be enforced and the Marina can hold the boat. Go back a couple pages and see. But I also cited Florida statues (I realize the OP doesn't reside in FL) that appears to prove differently. See posts 804, 809, 810. But here is a summation again:

https://www.lawfirms.com/resources/m...hips-boats.htm
A major difference between a federal maritime lien and these state liens is that under federal maritime law the lien does not have to be recorded anywhere"

https://cwlfirm.com/2015/09/28/5-thi...buying-a-boat/
"For the most part, there is no way to assure the purchaser that the vessel is being purchased lien free. Unlike real property there are no title insurance companies nor are there mandatory requirements for recording maritime liens. Therefore, the only means by which a purchaser is assured of a lien free vessel is by the representation of the seller that the vessel is free and clear of all known liens and encumbrances. A purchaser should, to the extent possible, check with those who may have performed work or provided services to the vessel or with whom the vessel’s owner was dealing in the months preceding the sale. Additionally, the purchase should demand written assurance that the seller will indemnify the buyer against all claims that may be brought against the purchaser for liens that attached prior to the sale."

So for the third time....if the above hypothetical was perpetrated upon them does the marina have to release the boat? And please, please don't mention the hindsight laws of fraud or whatever else because obviously...the marina isn't aware of the fraudulent scheme.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:52 AM
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I know this is a bit 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted' but an organization that I'm a member of provides this document for use in buying a used boat: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...AND%20BOAT.pdf
It may be of use to other buyers/sellers to avoid such a situation themselves - note condition 1.1 on page 2 - obviously you would have to go through it it check for things that may be different in UK to US law (broadly speaking I think both countries are very similarly aligned when it comes to buying a used boat), and of course change the £ for $.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mystery View Post
* four sides
Yes the truth
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:57 AM
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Go into the office, talk to Patty and she what she says. The guy that told you to " take us to court" is probably Scott. He is a hot head, and when I worked with him, I thought he was a character that escaped from Disney World
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by prowlersfish View Post
OP , sit down talk to the owner /manager Being nice will help and see what they will do . If you get ugly it won't help . I would pay what ever is decided sometimes you have to suck up the losses . The boat is now in your name so now your liable or any costs incurred since . If you walk away they can go after you . But I sure would go after the seller .


There are three sides to this yours , the marinas and the sellers .

No. Just go with police and get the boat. The clock on fees for storage stopped the moment he said Eff You.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by homeby51 View Post
Of course it sucks and of course it is fraud but again.....that's not the discussion nor is the hypothetical meant for advice for the OP. OK.....I'll type SLOW so you can understand. Take a deep breath, and pop a Ritalin so you can stay focused and find it within yourself the capability of following a conversation.

The question that the hypothetical points out is simply "would the marina have the right to hold the boat, not knowing of the fraudulent plan"? The hypothetical scheme could easily be perpetrated upon thousands of marinas every year if the marina doesn't have the right to hold the boat. Why? Because the marina has no idea of the previous sales and schemes. They simply want to be paid for services.

Now...as I said in previous posts...I am not claiming the marina has the right to hold the boat. I have cited maritime law that appears to say that a legal lien does not have to be recorded in order to be enforced and the Marina can hold the boat. Go back a couple pages and see. But I also cited Florida statues (I realize the OP doesn't reside in FL) that appears to prove differently. See posts 804, 809, 810. But here is a summation again:

https://www.lawfirms.com/resources/m...hips-boats.htm
A major difference between a federal maritime lien and these state liens is that under federal maritime law the lien does not have to be recorded anywhere"

https://cwlfirm.com/2015/09/28/5-thi...buying-a-boat/
"For the most part, there is no way to assure the purchaser that the vessel is being purchased lien free. Unlike real property there are no title insurance companies nor are there mandatory requirements for recording maritime liens. Therefore, the only means by which a purchaser is assured of a lien free vessel is by the representation of the seller that the vessel is free and clear of all known liens and encumbrances. A purchaser should, to the extent possible, check with those who may have performed work or provided services to the vessel or with whom the vessel’s owner was dealing in the months preceding the sale. Additionally, the purchase should demand written assurance that the seller will indemnify the buyer against all claims that may be brought against the purchaser for liens that attached prior to the sale."

So for the third time....if the above hypothetical was perpetrated upon them does the marina have to release the boat? And please, please don't mention the hindsight laws of fraud or whatever else because obviously...the marina isn't aware of the fraudulent scheme.
i honestly didnt read your post, well because i clicked the first link, and its some guy in maine, who doesnt necessarily know CT law (much like you trying to cite FL law)

second, much of the talk on that link is about documented/federally registered boats, including what you cited, this is a state registered boat, which is different, so you posting something that the lien does not need to be recorded because of federal maritime law is not applicable in this situation

so again, you are trying to make a point, but you are failing
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:10 AM
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The boat is blocked in and not going anywhere without an agreement with the boatyard.

I don’t think I have ever seen the police move other boats to help get one out.


Any contact with the previous owner? I would be calling every 4 hours, every day.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jumpsummo View Post
No. Just go with police and get the boat. The clock on fees for storage stopped the moment he said Eff You.
He already called the police, they won't do anything without a court order. It's a civil matter not a criminal matter.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Raybo Marine NY View Post
nope, wrong, very wrong
There is a yard right up the street from me he doesnt take any money up front at all. I talked with him about it and thats how he does it because thats how his father did it. They been there for like 50 years.
I questioned it myself and even suggested offering a small discount to pay up front- its just the way he does it and im sure he isnt the only one

I store very few boats, the ones I do store and friends or customers. I ask to be paid for the storage and wrap thats it. I then offer a discount for paint or detailing if they pay in full.
Now - lets say that guy vanishes off the face of the earth for 8 months and next thing I know some guy comes along and says he bought the boat and would like to pick it up- Not happening unless the bill is paid in full.

You guys think you can do things better you need to open your places and maybe you will see the BS that goes along with it. you all assume people do the right thing but they dont. checks bounce, people vanish, "ill be in next week""sorry I was out of town ill be in at the end of the month", "sorry my wifes car broke down I had to pay for a new transmission ill be in next week"
This is how my cousin's marina works. Its old school and they have know each other for 50 years, The marina performs this seasonal stuff and bills out usually at the time its ready to be splashed again. Also has marina look after his kids boat and do regular maintenance on the engine. Just bills him in next billing cycle. Nothing about paying upfront in advance.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by niteatnicks View Post
This is how my cousin's marina works. Its old school and they have know each other for 50 years, The marina performs this seasonal stuff and bills out usually at the time its ready to be splashed again. Also has marina look after his kids boat and do regular maintenance on the engine. Just bills him in next billing cycle. Nothing about paying upfront in advance.
I thought these places were businesses?? Don't they have any costs over the winter, like property taxes, utilities, labor, etc??

Why would anybody running a serous business not want their costs paid sometime near when they are incurred?? Most places I know get a deposit upfront (usually at least 1/2) then get the remainder at splash. That way they're prepaid for the first 1/2 of the time and then they basically 'finance' the remaining for the customer. That's a reasonable compromise.

When you're doing it for family (cousins) that's a bit different. You're basically freely financing their costs which may be the "nice" thing to do since you own the marina, which would not be much different than having family stay at your house without charging them for rent.

If you're taking on financing for customers, there's always a risk that you might not get paid back or might not get paid back fully.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by km1125 View Post
I thought these places were businesses?? Don't they have any costs over the winter, like property taxes, utilities, labor, etc??

Why would anybody running a serous business not want their costs paid sometime near when they are incurred?? Most places I know get a deposit upfront (usually at least 1/2) then get the remainder at splash. That way they're prepaid for the first 1/2 of the time and then they basically 'finance' the remaining for the customer. That's a reasonable compromise.

When you're doing it for family (cousins) that's a bit different. You're basically freely financing their costs which may be the "nice" thing to do since you own the marina, which would not be much different than having family stay at your house without charging them for rent.

If you're taking on financing for customers, there's always a risk that you might not get paid back or might not get paid back fully.
yup its a poor business decision to charge at the end. all sorts of risks. businesses should minimize risks as much as possible. basic business stuff.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:50 AM
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A cursory google search indicates that Connecticut does have a lien statute that provide a possessory lien on a vessel in the amount of the work/repairs performed, with a caveat. Connecticut General Statute 49-55 reads: [COLOR=left=#222222]Each vessel, not documented according to the maritime or admiralty laws of the United States, shall be subject to a lien in the amount of a claim of not less than fifty dollars by any person, hereinafter called the lienor, for work done, including the equipping of such vessel with safety devices, materials furnished or expenses incurred in connection with the building, repairing, mooring, dockage or storage of such vessel. This misdemeanor shall be subordinate to security interests previously filed in the office of the Secretary of the State. The lienor may retain possession of the vessel until the charges for such work, materials or expenses have been paid or the lien has been dissolved.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=left=#191919]So, it appears the issue of whether the vessel is documented according to maritime or admiralty laws of the US may be relevant. Otherwise, the OP has a bone to pick with the slick bastad that sold him the boat, not with the marina asserting their lien.[/COLOR]

Last edited by fowl intent; 04-15-2019 at 08:55 AM. Reason: mistake
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RLC2020 View Post
Yes, that pic is from the craigslist ad. The boat is 3 deep and isn't going anywhere until a very large houseboat is moved from behind it.

Again, Perhaps I wasn't clear enough when I clarified this several times. I bought the boat for what it was worth AS IT SAT. but, I believe that with some repairs and a lot of elbow grease it will be worth double what I paid for it. So I got it for half of what it's worth, but only after all repairs are made. I look at the potential value in things and am willing to put the effort in to get there. If anything, I overpaid for it as it sat even without the yard bill that I was not aware of. When you factor the yard bill in then I overpaid by almost $2k. How does that make me greedy? I valued the boat at 5-6k when finished, in the water, turn key, waxed, painted, etc... Its worth half that currently out of the water with lots and lots of work needed.

I do not go into a dealership and say "here's my check book, I would like boat please" I get them that need work and do the work to make them nice.

I get enjoyment out of taking older boats and fixing them up, using them for a season or two and then selling them, usually for a profit. I put in a ton of time and effort to fix them up and that is why I do okay when I choose to sell them. This is also how I can afford boating even though I have an almost 2 year old son and we just bought a new house and I really shouldn't spend the money. Attached is a picture of my last boat, a 31' Chris Craft Commander which I bought for only $4k (it was a mess) and did a full rehab on it. Removed the flybridge, rewired both engines and completely redid the steering set up. Sold it 2 years later for 3 times what I had into it to a guy that trucked it all the way to Key West. I know the Silverton is not nearly as much of a classic, but I have a nostalgic tie to these boats and enjoy fixing them up.
there is nothing wrong with fixing up an old boat.

There is nothing wrong with buying from a private seller.
dont let the trolls and losers on here get to you.

You could not have reasonably done anything different.
The idea that someone would sea trial and do a title search on a $2500 boat is just dumb.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by fowl intent View Post
A cursory google search indicates that Connecticut does have a lien statute that provide a possessory lien on a vessel in the amount of the work/repairs performed, with a caveat. Connecticut General Statute 49-55 reads: [color=left=#222222]Each vessel, not documented according to the maritime or admiralty laws of the United States, shall be subject to a lien in the amount of a claim of not less than fifty dollars by any person, hereinafter called the lienor, for work done, including the equipping of such vessel with safety devices, materials furnished or expenses incurred in connection with the building, repairing, mooring, dockage or storage of such vessel. This misdemeanor shall be subordinate to security interests previously filed in the office of the Secretary of the State. The lienor may retain possession of the vessel until the charges for such work, materials or expenses have been paid or the lien has been dissolved.[/color]

[color=left=#191919]So, it appears the issue of whether the vessel is documented according to maritime or admiralty laws of the US may be relevant. Otherwise, the OP has a bone to pick with the slick bastad that sold him the boat, not with the marina asserting their lien.[/color]
That's the key. If they had applied for a lien BEFORE the vessel was properly titled to the new owner, they'd have a case. Otherwise, the bolded area says that their lien is now subordinate to the title that the Secretary of State issued to the new owner.

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Old 04-15-2019, 09:19 AM
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You need to look up the meaning of "security interest", it refers to a previous lien against the vessel (such as a bank loan) having priority over the mechanic's lien. It has nothing to do with the title being transferred. The marina's right to file the mechanic's lien remains intact because one of the recognized conditions that is covered in the Law is "storage of such vessel". The vessel has been in constant, uninterrupted storage for the duration of this saga.
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