Notices
Like Tree8Likes

A composite thread

Reply

Old 01-06-2018, 11:57 AM
  #641  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,269
Default

Originally Posted by commuter boats View Post
It supports the anchor roller below the bow pulpit, those are the gussets / webs that are tabbed underneath the deck onto the hull.
Gerald
Iíll have to see it after youíre done, but I think I get what youíre doing.
Big Iron is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:02 PM
  #642  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default

I have a small project that pales compared to what I've seen on this thread. I am making a leaning post for my 16' Whaler. It fits on the existing bench seat, so I can stand and steer. I have already raised the bus driver style steering and made a prototype from cdx plywood.

Now that I have bought Meranti ply and got mahogany strips my question is.
Should I first coat the plywood sides and mahogany strips with epoxy and then assemble?

My plan is that the entire piece will be "glued" together with epoxy resin and then coated with many coats of spar varnish.

Name:  IMG_1541.jpg
Views: 597
Size:  193.0 KB prototype

Name:  IMG_1542.jpg
Views: 602
Size:  288.6 KB with one strip dryfit, Actually this part will be another piece of the plywood. It is the rear of the leaning post and will be a low seat facing aft.
muskrattown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:27 PM
  #643  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

Originally Posted by dnt99611 View Post
Sounds like you have done some work with c-flex. I think you have hit on the downsides of doing it that way but I feel the upside of not using poly might be worth it. The other hulls were built using iso and all worked out just fine. I had help to lay the glass so bonding was never an issue. This one would be a one man show and I know it will take much longer to glass. This is one of several reasons I am thinking of going with epoxy.
Never used Ebond epoxy, where is the best place to get it?
Originally Posted by muskrattown View Post
I have a small project that pales compared to what I've seen on this thread. I am making a leaning post for my 16' Whaler. It fits on the existing bench seat, so I can stand and steer. I have already raised the bus driver style steering and made a prototype from cdx plywood.

Now that I have bought Meranti ply and got mahogany strips my question is.
Should I first coat the plywood sides and mahogany strips with epoxy and then assemble?

My plan is that the entire piece will be "glued" together with epoxy resin and then coated with many coats of spar varnish.

with one strip dryfit, Actually this part will be another piece of the plywood. It is the rear of the leaning post and will be a low seat facing aft.
dnt99611 & muskrattown, I avoid most questions about epoxy as there's others that have far more knowledge than I, somebody will respond soon
Gerald
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:56 PM
  #644  
Admirals ClubCaptains Club Member Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington,NC
Posts: 2,896
Default

Glue it together first and clean up the corners well. Denatured . The cabosil will show through the finish so really get it off as you glue. Once it is cured, then hot coat the inside and outside. It will seal it up well. You could shoot it with clear coat instead of varnish for a real mirror finish. You have a pile of work ahead of you.
Tarbaby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 01:01 PM
  #645  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kasilof, alaska
Posts: 78
Default

Gerald don't sweat the epoxy questions. I am just gathering a little info for possible later use.
I have to say I love watching your glass work. Building new is one thing but repairing is a whole different game. Your posts share a lot of knowledge to a lot of people. Thank you.
dnt99611 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 02:03 PM
  #646  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default

Originally Posted by Tarbaby View Post
Glue it together first and clean up the corners well. Denatured . The cabosil will show through the finish so really get it off as you glue. Once it is cured, then hot coat the inside and outside. It will seal it up well. You could shoot it with clear coat instead of varnish for a real mirror finish. You have a pile of work ahead of you.
You are way over my head here.
Are you saying glue with a typical wood glue?
Hot coat is I am guessing is a coat of epoxy.
I was planning to ease the sharp edges, but did not plan to do until after basic assembly.

Thanks from the guy that sits in the back of the room for a reason.
muskrattown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 02:12 PM
  #647  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

I understood that he was suggesting using thickened epoxy for gluing but you should clean the thickened epoxy that squeezes out with denatured alcohol or the cabosil from the thickened epoxy will color the wood around the joint. After all machining is done, coat with epoxy...
My interpretation I left out the part about a lot of work.
Gerald
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 02:45 PM
  #648  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default

Originally Posted by commuter boats View Post
I understood that he was suggesting using thickened epoxy for gluing but you should clean the thickened epoxy that squeezes out with denatured alcohol or the cabosil from the thickened epoxy will color the wood around the joint. After all machining is done, coat with epoxy...
My interpretation I left out the part about a lot of work.
Gerald
Thanks,
Not a problem with the time involved. This is my winter basement project.

Will post as I progress.
muskrattown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 04:35 PM
  #649  
Admirals ClubCaptains Club Member Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington,NC
Posts: 2,896
Default

You got it. When gluing the end grain of the plywood to each other , you need to paint it with unthickened epoxy first. I would do a couple of coats on the end grain. It will soak in like a sponge. If you used just thickened epoxy with cabosil and glued the joints, the end grain of the plywood will suck the resin out of the glue mixture and all you will have left is a glue joint that isn’t strong because it is mostly cabosil. Once the two coats are on the end grain, then add the thickended glue on top of what you have hotcoated. Assemble it before any of it cures. This should be done in one step.

Hotcoat, thickened epoxy and then glue the seams.




Glue it together with a mayonnaise consistency of epoxy and cabosil. You could add some sawdust of mahogany to the mixture to make the joint more like the rest of the wood. I like to use the sanded dust out of the bag connected to my sander.... this will make the joint the same color instead of a white cabosil joint.

You can do this and it will be awesome. Take your time and don’t glue it all at once.

Last edited by Tarbaby; 01-06-2018 at 04:41 PM.
Tarbaby is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 05:10 PM
  #650  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,146
Default

Originally Posted by Tarbaby View Post
You got it. When gluing the end grain of the plywood to each other , you need to paint it with unthickened epoxy first. I would do a couple of coats on the end grain. It will soak in like a sponge. If you used just thickened epoxy with cabosil and glued the joints, the end grain of the plywood will suck the resin out of the glue mixture and all you will have left is a glue joint that isnít strong because it is mostly cabosil. Once the two coats are on the end grain, then add the thickended glue on top of what you have hotcoated. Assemble it before any of it cures. This should be done in one step.

Hotcoat, thickened epoxy and then glue the seams.




Glue it together with a mayonnaise consistency of epoxy and cabosil. You could add some sawdust of mahogany to the mixture to make the joint more like the rest of the wood. I like to use the sanded dust out of the bag connected to my sander.... this will make the joint the same color instead of a white cabosil joint.

You can do this and it will be awesome. Take your time and donít glue it all at once.
Got it.
Now for the execution of said plan.
Thanks.
muskrattown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 07:00 AM
  #651  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,902
Default

Originally Posted by sea hare View Post
Couple questions: What is CSM?

Are there user manuals for E-poxy? and where is the best place to buy it?

How does E-poxy work compared to West 105?

Thanks
CSM is chopped strand matt

Working with most epoxies is the same..some just have different mix ratios depending on the type of hardener used in the chemistry...West's website has full detailed information on how to use resin and doing glass repair/construction

If you're talking about E-bond epoxy, you can buy it direct or through vendors like Merritt
maxie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 10:20 AM
  #652  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

Big Iron "What does this do?"

commuter boats "It supports the anchor roller below the bow pulpit, those are the gussets / webs that are tabbed underneath the deck onto the hull."
Gerald

Big Iron "Iíll have to see it after youíre done, but I think I get what youíre doing."

The vessel previously carried a 33 pound Bruce but that was lost and as yet my client hasn't found another and isn't willing to make use of a copy so I'm not sure what anchor will be hanging here, this is a 22 pound Bruce, what I've done gives me lots of flexibility and the anchor is mounted low enough to guarantee a self launching situation.
Gerald
Attached Images  
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 06:59 PM
  #653  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Maui
Posts: 675
Default

Gerald,
I like the idea of this self launching anchor system but I am unfamiliar with how it works. Do you pull a pin and let her go, maybe run the windless in reverse. Can you do it from the cab or do you still need to go up on the bow?
D
ChiefD is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 07:10 PM
  #654  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,269
Default

I like the way that looks Gerald. It looks way more solid that a lot of the other windlass systems I’ve seen.
Big Iron is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 07:50 AM
  #655  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

Name:  IMG_9381.jpeg
Views: 309
Size:  81.8 KB
Closing up the bow pulpit, I fit a piece of foam just a little over three quarters of an inch low. The purpose of this foam is to support a laminate that will keep the sides of the pulpit parallel after the horizontal flange is cut off the perimeter.
Name:  IMG_9382.jpeg
Views: 310
Size:  84.1 KB
Polyester shrinks as it cues and that would cause the sides the pulpit two bow inward, this laminate primary functions is to prevent that.
Name:  IMG_9385.jpeg
Views: 308
Size:  63.9 KB
Another three quarters of an inch of foam is fitted and glassed over
Name:  IMG_9391.jpeg
Views: 307
Size:  89.4 KB
The first laminate over the top is ground, I laminate and grind three times in building the top laminate
Name:  IMG_9396.jpeg
Views: 312
Size:  94.4 KB

Name:  IMG_9404.jpeg
Views: 306
Size:  91.6 KB
With each laminate I spread out further over the deck, unidirectional is used where appropriate.
Name:  IMG_9405.jpeg
Views: 308
Size:  99.2 KB
And another opportunity to grind
Name:  IMG_9406.jpeg
Views: 310
Size:  57.8 KB
bonding a flat piece of glass that's been predrilled for the anchor winch is a labor server, a couple coats of gelcoat with a few micro balloons are rolled on, the last with wax and some sanding
Name:  IMG_9407.jpeg
Views: 308
Size:  62.7 KB

Name:  IMG_9408.jpeg
Views: 307
Size:  41.1 KB
The bulkhead between the V birth in the rode locker is closed
Name:  IMG_9411.jpeg
Views: 312
Size:  50.1 KB
Originally Posted by chiefd View Post
gerald,
i like the idea of this self launching anchor system but i am unfamiliar with how it works. Do you pull a pin and let her go, maybe run the windless in reverse. Can you do it from the cab or do you still need to go up on the bow?
D
Good morning Darrell, the windless is reversible and controllable from the helm.
Gerald
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 08:43 AM
  #656  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,269
Default

Wow. Very nice work.
Big Iron is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 07:35 PM
  #657  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Maui
Posts: 675
Default

Got it, sweet setup, thanks.
D
ChiefD is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 08:52 AM
  #658  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

Thank you
I have to get things straight from the chine down so I fit the stainless steel shoe which will help guide my work along the centerline. There's been previous work and it was not particularly straight.
Name:  IMG_9414.jpeg
Views: 239
Size:  62.7 KB
The stainless steel is about 9 feet long, 3/4" wide and 3/8" thick, 304 stainless with quarter-inch fasteners countersunk on 10" centers, the fasteners will be 304 / 18-8 hardware store quality stainless. With the shoe and the fasteners of similar qualities of stainless steel and with proper bonding I know that these fasteners will last five to seven years, if my client will remove a fastener at three years and inspect or just replace half a dozen bolts on a 3 to 5 year rotation there won't be any problems. Only the top two fasteners pass all the way through ( allowing a bonding wire connection ), all the bottom ones are tapped into the fiberglass and end in the PVC foam that's encapsulated on the centerline.
Name:  IMG_9415.jpeg
Views: 238
Size:  71.4 KB

Name:  IMG_9416.jpeg
Views: 236
Size:  59.7 KB
The third hole on the starboard side is the rode locker drain.
Name:  IMG_9417.jpeg
Views: 235
Size:  40.9 KB
Looking into the rode locker, one of the quarter-inch fasteners on the centerline, below that is the nickel copper pipe and the molded in passageway for a towline, below that is the drain. Above the quarter-inch fastener ( to the starboard side of ) is a hole through the web, this is an anchor point for the bitter end of the anchor rode.
Gerald
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 09:01 AM
  #659  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,269
Default

Stainless for protection on rocky beaches and what not?

Love your attention to detail. I know you’ve built boats in the past, but would be nice if some of your thoughts were passed on to production builders in the lower 48.

I love this stuff because the possibilities are only bound by the imagination and at the end of all of your work you have an actual product to show for it. The older I get, the more important that is for me.
Big Iron is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 09:16 AM
  #660  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southeast Alaska
Posts: 5,301
Default

Originally Posted by Big Iron View Post
Stainless for protection on rocky beaches and what not?

Love your attention to detail. I know youíve built boats in the past, but would be nice if some of your thoughts were passed on to production builders in the lower 48.

I love this stuff because the possibilities are only bound by the imagination and at the end of all of your work you have an actual product to show for it. The older I get, the more important that is for me.
Rocky beaches, thanks. If any of the builders are interested I'm putting it out there for anybody to see... there's been no patents applied for

Possibilities may only be bound by imagination but then you've gotta find somebody that will pay you for the effort
Gerald
commuter boats is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread