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Tolman Great Alaskan DIY build

Old 04-14-2016, 06:24 AM
  #361  
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Gerald,
Thanks for the feedback. It is tough to get back far enough, especially in a photo.

I previously thought similar to you. I thought a "powderhorn" was more like what you see on this Cape Horn.

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Apparently it applies to any compound sheer with an "s" shape and was first applied to New Englend Schooners which had a raised bow and "shoulders" to handle plowing into seas while dropping lower at the stern.

Mine is closer to this 23 regulator. It shares a lot of characteristics. The angle of the transom and sides with no tumblehome at the transom, and similar sheer, almost level at the bow with the waterline.

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The Tolman has been done on numerous occasions with a "Beddoe" bow. Names after a guy that built one that turned out with a bit of a hump in the sheer toward the bow. The Beddoe bows I have seen are closer to what the sheer on this Stieger looks like.

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Mine is a little more pronounced and further aft rather than just the forward 5th.
Old 04-14-2016, 07:57 AM
  #362  
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Whatever they are called... in your build and in the pics above... those curves are sweet!
Old 04-14-2016, 11:09 AM
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1blue,
Not familiar with the Cape Horn but it looks like the shear has a "sag" in it from midship back to where it curves down at the transom. Might be the angle of the picture, not very pleasing to my eye.

The Regulator and Steiger both look sharp. The Steiger's pulpit made me realize that if your going to run one of those you would want to level off the bow with the waterline or the pulpit might look ridiculous angled up into the air.

We'll see when I get to that stage but I would like to rework the shear on my hull as I'm not a fan of the bow turning down..........is that the "powder horn" look? Once the shear dips past horizontal it starts to look more like a speed boat IMO.

Your mock up looks good, very pleasing to the eye.
D
Old 04-14-2016, 01:23 PM
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The cape Horn does have that little sag behind the midpoint. I never really liked the downturn towards the bow.
Old 04-14-2016, 07:38 PM
  #365  
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I know the Cape Horn has a pretty good following but I agree with clt capt. and cheif, the sag in the sheer and the droopy bow is not for me, especially with the "euro transom" thing it has going on. I really like the Regulator, and the Steiger is not bad. I think it is interesting to note that the cape horn and the stieger both have very straight bowstems with no "hawk" (if that is the incorrect term someone correct me). The Regulator has a slight bit but nothing extreme.

From what I remember reading on Renn Tolman, he got a bit testy when folks confused or referred to Tolman's as "Lobsterboats" I think the sheerline and rather bluff bow on the stock tolman design is what led people to this. Stieger distinguishes thier boats from the more common lobster style boats in the NE region with this little powderhorn in the sheer although you don't see it in their smaller boats which are more in the standard single upswept curve in the "Downeast" style.

I don't want mine to look like a lobster boat and I think this puts it somewhere between the the NC downeasters and the downeasters of the NE region. Somewhere between a Royal Lowell and a Regulator.

I've got a couple more tweeks in mind and then I hope to flip her over and start glassing.
Old 04-29-2016, 08:44 AM
  #366  
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The progress on my build has been what I would call slow and steady. I am still working on the mock-up and shearline. This is probably pretty boring to most people but it has become extremely interesting and thought provoking to me. The more I work on it, the more I love it.

As I mentioned in the beginning, this is my first build and the learning curve here is pretty steep. When I started, I thought how difficult can it be to draw something on paper and then build it. Wow was I ever wrong. I am beginning to understand that unlike building houses or other things that are meant to be straight and square, a boat is very much a different animal. I am learning that a 2 dimensional drawing is a much different beast when you are working with curves in 3 dimensions.

For those who haven't tried it, here is a perfect example. When drawing the shearline on a boat, the upward curve of the line at the bow changes much differently on paper than it does in real life 3 dimension construction. What may appear to the eye on paper as a consistent slope is not consistent at all, due to the fact that as the bow of the boat curves to a point, it is moving away from the eye giving it the appearance of being much different. Likewise, a slight narrowing or broadening of the boats beam, can give the boat the appearance of having a dip or hump in the shear that is really a fair curve on paper. Dealing with these illusions can be tricky, its almost like vodoo. You poke it here and it looks like it popped out there and vice versa. In some ways it is much easier to build by eye with wood and then draw it afterwards from a picture.

Look at the shear in this picture. It looks from this angle like there is a hump or powderhorn in the shear.

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Now look at it here. The exact same boat, picture taken at a slightly different angle.

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Same here.
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And here.

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different angles of the same boat.

As you can see the curve is fair and the hump has disappeared.

Tricks the eye plays on you in real life 3d.

Add to this the effect of how non paralell lines play on each other and it can be a real brain bender.

Each day I add a little wood and epoxy in the morning before work and then plane a little when I get home. Then I stand back and look from different directions to see what effect it has. Then add another layer of wood and epoxy before bed.

I'm sure the old timers that built rack-o-eye had this down after a couple builds. For me it is trial and error. I could just leave everything stock according to plans and roll onward but this is so neat and I am learning so much about shape and how much wood will bend in different directions, I have decided to take advantage of the opportunity to learn. I might not get it all right by the experts, but at least I will have a better understanding of how you get there for the next go around if there is one.

Last edited by 1blueheron; 04-29-2016 at 09:02 AM.
Old 05-12-2016, 09:41 AM
  #367  
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So the last couple weeks I have achieved a few things on the build.

I locked in the desired shearline
I created a template of the sides
I obtained the stringer material and cut one of the stringers.

Here is a few shots of what I have been up to.

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The sides are not permanently hung or scarfed together yet. That will happen when the boat is upside down on the jig and everything is adjusted, scarfed together and then permanently epoxied in place and glassed over.

Side's are 3/8" ply. Stringers are 1-3/4" X 9-1/4 LVL material which has had the wax planed off. They are pretty beefy.
Old 05-12-2016, 12:09 PM
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Awesome, I like that sheer line!
Old 05-12-2016, 03:56 PM
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Very nice!

In previous post your mock up looked like the hull sides would be more slab sided but judging from the slits in the upper portion of the ply I'm thinking you added some flair to the forward section?
D
Old 05-12-2016, 07:53 PM
  #370  
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Thanks Surv!


CheifD, Shhh. Don't say that too loud, I'm likely to catch grief for that little tweek! To be honest, yes, I added a little flair. It begins at the rise in the shearline and reaches a max of about 5" of additional width in the deck. I know it will add some time and work to fair it but I think it is worth it. (Ask me again when I am sanding it).

Since you let the cat out of the bag, here is a pic of the flair from the bow looking aft. This was temp mockup so the bowstem and shelves still needed a little adjustment when the pictures were taken.

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They still will need to be adjusted and trimmed once hung.

As of this evening, both stringers are cut and matched ready for installation.
Old 05-12-2016, 08:11 PM
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I think it will be well worth the effort!

Don't believe I've seen a Tollman/GA with any flair so you may have a "one of a kind", maybe start a trend.....

Fairing that when the hull is turned over shouldn't be too bad, fairing up right like it is now.......that's another story.

Keep up the great work!
D
Old 05-12-2016, 09:43 PM
  #372  
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That's an interesting way to do that. Wish I thought of that
Old 05-13-2016, 08:04 AM
  #373  
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1BH, you're comment about "non-parallel lines" caught my eye.

On some Tolman's, the curve in the spray rail doesn't match the sheer line. I've always thought that looked a bit funky.
Old 05-13-2016, 08:40 AM
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For someone that's never gone down this path of building a boat, you have done a good job there. One thing of note, as I have not noticed if you have them, you will need some stiffeners across the inside of the hull when you get to the nuts and bolts of locking in and glassing the bulkheads in particular in place.


Check all you vertical uprights on the sides for their uniform angles to the bottom You can run a string down the middle from the top of the stem or inside the stem to the transom and check at similar locations on each side making sure that your deminisions are the same to the hull sides.
Old 05-13-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 1blueheron View Post
CheifD, Shhh. Don't say that too loud, I'm likely to catch grief for that little tweek! To be honest, yes, I added a little flair.
Isn't that part of the point of building it yourself... building it the way YOU want it? If someone wants to give you grief... let them build their own boat.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 05-13-2016, 12:34 PM
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I like the flare. Never seen a Tolman with it before.
Old 05-13-2016, 03:21 PM
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By the way have you checked the overall sheer beam of the modifications?
Old 05-14-2016, 07:55 AM
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"CheifD, Shhh. Don't say that too loud, I'm likely to catch grief for that little tweek! To be honest, yes, I added a little flair. It begins at the rise in the shearline and reaches a max of about 5" of additional width in the deck. I know it will add some time and work to fair it but I think it is worth it. (Ask me again when I am sanding it).

Since you let the cat out of the bag, here is a pic of the flair from the bow looking aft. This was temp mockup so the bowstem and shelves still needed a little adjustment when the pictures were taken."


First, the 'Beddoe Bow'.

Now, the 'Bob Bulge'.
Old 05-14-2016, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for the comments guys, and for the tips.

On the GA, the widest beam occurs just a little in front of the aft cabin bulkhead. I have been keeping pretty close track of the beam to make sure I don't creep past max trailerable width of 8'6". At his time, all the added width comes into play forward of the max beam point. It actually just straightens out the shelves a little further forward and then makes a slightly sharper turn at the front.

There are a few stiffeners called for in the stock plans. This is in addition to the forward anchor locker/ crash bulkhead, forward cabin bulkhead, and aft cabin bulkhead. I will scribe some contoured peices to match the flair and epoxy those to the stiffeners and bulkheads in that region.

I think I will need some X bracing installed to make sure the shelves and angled uprights remain true. The string and plumb is a good idea and I have employed it a great deal already.

I have often been told I have a bulge around my middle. Why not build a boat that matches? I am not aware of any Tolman's or GA's built yet that have any flare in the bow or this radical a departure from the standard shear. The GA designer, Brian Dixon has been very supportive and complimentary of my efforts so far. This is somewhat virgin territory for S&G based boats and the Tolman genre as far as I know. I'm not going to claim victory before the launch but I like to think I have a decent game plan to get there.

I took my boy camping last night and did some stocked stream trout fishing with him today. Was fun watching him land his first golden trout. We were one short of our limits today so the frying pan will be seeing some action soon.
Old 05-14-2016, 10:10 PM
  #380  
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I'm no naval architect but I've seen more than a few Tolmans, and more stitch-and-glues than I could ever count. That's got the nicest lines of any Tolman I've seen, anyway.

I like a boat with flare...I find them drier (as does just about everyone in my experience). A Tolman with a bit of flare is probably going to be a pretty nice ride; I'm curious to see how this turns out.

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