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The Cold Mold Construction Fight Club

Old 01-14-2013, 05:31 PM
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Default The Cold Mold Construction Fight Club

There have been a number of us and I include myself, that have hijacked other's construction threads arguing construction methods and it is time for that to stop.
If any of us have anything to contribute to the build, lets, but if you want to have an exchange on construction lets do it here.

This is my thread, so I am going to start and post construction pictures of a 50' that I built the hull on when I worked with Heritage Boatworks.

Let's go boys and girls

Last edited by Capt Hugh Wilde; 01-14-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:33 PM
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I'm just getting little red x's anyone else getting pixs?
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunky Dory View Post
I'm just getting little red x's anyone else getting pixs?
I am going to fix that give me a few

I give up for now.

Last edited by Capt Hugh Wilde; 01-14-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Hugh Wilde View Post
I am going to fix that give me a few

I give up for now.
I hope your boat building has better success than your internet boat building shit talking!

J/k, I always read and learn a lot from the build threads and the build shit talking threads. Hopefully I can start my own boat building argument thread in the next year or so.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Hugh Wilde View Post
There have been a number of us and I include myself, that have hijacked other's construction threads arguing construction methods and it is time for that to stop.

Let's go boys and girls
Concrete boats are the best!








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Old 01-15-2013, 08:28 AM
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Buck, you decided to start this thread right when THT is having photo upload issues. You're not alone.

LOL...someone called you a shit talker.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:31 AM
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Thanks for starting the thread Capt. Hugh. I hope to gain something from it. Your advice and knowledge, when offered is always done in a way that makes folks feel like you're actually trying to help, not degrade them and its much appreciated! Any more luck with the pic uploading?
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GCC View Post
Thanks for starting the thread Capt. Hugh. I hope to gain something from it. Your advice and knowledge, when offered is always done in a way that makes folks feel like you're actually trying to help, not degrade them and its much appreciated! Any more luck with the pic uploading?
I think the picture uploading is on the bum.

I think a guy on the 34 express thread got a laugh out of me talking about walking down the side of the boat feeling for highs and lows with my hands and finger tips with my eyes closed but that is what works for me. Your eyes will lie to you, your fingertips won't, They will feel the highs and lows and you can mark them and deal with them.

Fairing from start to finish is a money issue in a shop. If the planking is fair before the glass is put on there is much less to do in the paint system. High spots are the worst. I have even taken a sharp block plane and knocked them down before glassing. It just saves so much work and material.

On a triple planked hull I check each layer, if there is a low we fill it,a high we mow it off with a block plane. I guess it comes from having build boats before there was all the different putties and sprayable products. When if it was going to be fair, it had to be built that way.

It takes alot less time to fair as you go, starting with the jig, then the ribbands, then the planking. By the time you get her to glass you have it close.

If there is a unfair place in the first layer, it just gets worse as you add planking.

Other people have other ways, but that is the way I was taught and it works for me and I feel it is a better job in the end.

I have been very lucky in this work, as I have worked with very good people and was able to learn from them. Nobody has the market cornered on good ideas, and the best thing I have found for me is to see what others are doing and if it is better than what I am doing, steal it.

Maybe old Bill will stop mixing concrete long enough to join us. He is pretty damn good himself.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cape_fisherman View Post
Buck, you decided to start this thread right when THT is having photo upload issues. You're not alone.

LOL...someone called you a shit talker.
Well I guess I am going to have to do the photebucket thing to post pictures.

As for talking shit............ I ain't scared.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Hugh Wilde View Post
I am going to fix that give me a few

I give up for now.
Subscribed.
Capt Hugh, send me a pic that you want post to
dparrott1@ec.rr.com
I'll try to find out what the problem is.
I'm posting a pic just to see if I'm having the same problem.
Looks like I am. Will try resizing
Resizing doesn't do any good. Must be a website issue
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:36 PM
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Default Keel, Stringers and Jig

Here are the keel, stringers and jig setup on a 50' hull we built at Heritage Boatworks.

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Old 01-16-2013, 12:17 AM
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Any other pics of her?
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:46 AM
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Default keel/stringers

did you just rough cut the keel/stringers before putting it in the jig? Just easier on the ground first?
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:50 AM
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[QUOTE=tabascoT;5272423]did you just rough cut the keel/stringers before putting it in the jig? Just easier on the ground first?
tom

They were also dressed close with a power plane before they were installed. Once they are in the jig they just have to be fine tuned. the keel and stem were put in square and trimmed to the beading line in the jig
Alot of people glue up their stringers in the jig, but Will Guthrie , who I worked with lofted them out and built them on the ground and it just makes alot more sense to me to do most of the work on a table than trying to do it in the jig.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GCC View Post
Any other pics of her?
Bunches more.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Hugh Wilde View Post
Bunches more.
Oh Yeah

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:35 AM
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Default This was the first CNC jig I ever used

Graham at B&B did the CAD work on this boat for us. If you look at the head on picture you will see the round in the bottom stations. Her bottom was a fully developed panel and was the easiest to plank of any boat I have ever worked on. It also gave more floatation forward and was the softest ride of any boat her size I have ever been on.

But being the first CNC jig we ever used, it was not without issues, none related to the jig.
When I built jig hulls with Will, jigs he had lofted and cut, we would put the keel up and hang the stations from the keel and brace them. It worked fine and we just adjusted the stations and faired them. We did the same with this boat and it just made alot of work.
From that hull on, we built the strongback and set and lined up the jig on the strongback and it was so much better.

This one had ribband notches as well and none of us liked it. On the next hull we did, Robbie had Graham cut the side stations slack the thickness of the ribbands and we just screw the ribbands to the face of the staition and it was much better getting her fair. Since we removed the ribbands out of the hull after planking it really didn't matter if the spacing wasn't just perfect from one side to the other. If you were leaving the ribbands in you could just put one side on and transfer the marks to the other side with a water level.
Live and learn.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:50 AM
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Ok, the concrete finally set, this damp weather is wreaking havoc on cure times. One thing about concrete, you'd better get it right the first time, it doesn't sand to easliy!

WOW, I hadn't been following the 34 build thread that started such a firestorm, I sure hope Brad comes back to play, he brings a different perspective to the discussion that certainly has value and is building a fine looking craft.

OK, now for my measley two cents on the topic that seems to be so volatile, fairing;

My past life as an engineer in the electronics manufacturing industry taught me the earlier you find and correct problems in the process the cheaper it is to fix it. On an assembly line, each step the failure makes it before detection/correction increases the cost of repair by a factor of ten so early detection is vital!

I've done jigs both hand cut and CNC cut and while neither is perfect, CNC cut ones definitely are far better to begin with. As a comparison, the hand cut jig for the 64 took three weeks to loft and cut and another three weeks to true and set up before planking. The CNC cut jig on the 63 took three days to set up and verify "trueness" before planking started. To tell the whle story I did spend a couple weeks fairing the hull surfaces on CAD before sending the cut files off but the cost of the jig and the CAD fairing was still a fraction of the cost to fair the hand cut jig and the finished product took a LOT less fairing after planking.

I've visited just about every custom builder on the east coast and seen just about as many different methods of fairing from the guys who don't spend much time fairing the jig and slather on putty and carve out the shape to those who meticulously fair the jig first and use little putty afterward. I'm in the latter category. Personally I don't want chunks of my boats falling off when bumped against a piling as I've seen all to many times on boats built by some builders with very good reputations. On that 63 hull we used less than a gallon set of putty fairing out the whole hull and if I do say so, it IS fair! The 64 hull was just as fair but it required about 5 gallons of putty and a LOT more sanding passes.

On the far side of the spectrum is metal building, when some of the big names build an aluminum hull the paint manufacturers actually put on extra shifts to mix and deliver container loads of putty for a single hull!!! Is it "wrong" to use so much fairing? I'm not sure but names like Burger, Broward and Palmer Johnson sure do have good reputations!

Don't know if they'll upload but here's some pics of the 63 hull sides getting planked. Another thing wirth mentioning is the use of peel ply. While it is an essential component of vacuum bagging it also has merit in wet layup and can save at least one step in the fairing process by filling the weave during glassing and not having to sand the bare glass before fairing commences. The first pic is the test planks on the ribbands verifying things are ready to plank. The funny yellow colored cloth is a Kevlar/eglass hybrid and the white material over it is the peel ply.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:57 AM
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Buck said this was "his" thread so just to stir him up a bit I'll continue to hijack it some

We "evolved" into putting the ribbands on the outside of the jig vs cutting notches and make our own angle clamps from extruded stock, MUCH easier to remove them non-destructively and adjust them during truing. We also make up the keel and stringers outside laminated vertically vs horizontal in the jig. By using the wood's grain to your advantage you can get 30% or so stiffer members for the same size/weight and it's easier (to us) to cut and bevel them on the ground instead of in the air.

I designed the jigs to piece together with puzzle tabs and included small alignment notches we use a laser to setup to get the height correct. When setting up the jig I use two lasers, one vertical one horizontal and we build crossbar trusses at each station to hold each jig frame. I also cut templates for stringer and keel bevels and bulkheads so those parts can be fine tuned on the floor. Total time to set up for planking was three days with just two of us working on it.

Here's the 63 jig going up;
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:11 AM
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Man, Buck is going to really give me heck about this continued hijack, expecting him to pull in the parking lot any minute now

On the subject of fairing, I have to agree with his "laying on with the hands". While almost nothing can hide from a 7' longboard, some thangs can. I often close my eyes and walk down the side rubbing along and you'd be suprised what can show up even after getting down to the final prime stages. There's quite a difference between smooth and fair and while you can rub a small area and think it's done, larger imperfections may not be detected unless you "feel" the entire shape at one time. Ray Charles would make a great fairing guy! When I look at a hull I'm mainly looking at reflections not the surface itself, if they're not distorted you've got it!
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