Dana Point Harbor Revitalization inputs - The Hull Truth

FearNaut · 05-09-2006, 11:35 AM

I’m sure many of you are aware that the Dana Point launch ramps are in the process of being redesigned with construction of the new design to begin in the fall/winter of ’06.

As the Flotilla Commander of the local Coast Guard Auxiliary flotilla, I have the ear of the Dana Point Harbor Department manager, who has solicited my input on ramp design.

While I have given him quite a bit of input already, I would like to solicit your comments as well. Please be realistic, focusing on what the designers have control of (i.e. don’t respond with “no tidal action, no wind” etc.

If you would like to see the current plans for the harbor revitalization, please go to ww.uscgaux-danapoint.org, scroll down to the bottom of the page where you will find a link to the revitalization project web site.

Thanks!

Surfhunter · 05-09-2006, 06:53 PM

Personally, I think the ramp is great at DP. However, the parking could be improved. There needs to be more room to get around the folks washing down their boats.

I would prefer the current set up to higher launch fees.

Best of Luck...

FearNaut · 05-10-2006, 12:33 AM

Thanks Surfhunter. There was an open house at the Youth and Group Facility with the harbor department and design staff all there showing folks what the plans are.

I completely agree with you regarding the washdown area. I don't expect there will be much change there until they get approved for the work on the commercial areas, at which time there will be a major reconfiguration of the parking area....M.A.J.O.R.

Phase one is basically replacing the docks and ramps, including reducing the angle so that they are not as steep as they are now. That should cut down on some of the tire smokin' seen down there.

Overall it will be quite different, but they will be adding an additional launch ramp dock (total of three), and staggering the pilings along the dock so you can walk by without squishing around them.

The layout of the parking area and entrance will be quite different as well.

I have not heard any discussion of increasing fees. The money is coming from a grant from the state, which is one of the reasons they are able to do this project so soon.

Although a lot of the major design work is done and all but written in stone

FearNaut · 05-10-2006, 12:39 AM

Finishing the above:

Although a lot of the major design work is done and all but written in stone, because there will be more work done in following phases, now is a good time to make suggestions.

wet debt · 05-10-2006, 07:50 PM

Howdy Fearnaut,

I am vitally interested in how the DP situation will be handled. I was instrumental in initiating the onsite demonstrations and testifying before the County committee that is charged with overseeing the contract of Vintage Partners, their services and their fees.

I attended the first three meetings regarding the revitalization and was disappointed in the lack of details on what would be different, with respect to the launch and parking situation.

I think we can all agree that the parking is woefully inadequate, mostly due to the fact that cars for Dana Wharf, the Catalina Expresses, the Doheny Festivals, etc., etc. are allowed to park in there. The proposed parking structure will certainly solve this but are they really asking people to park boats and trailers in a parking structure? That seemed to be the plan.

Of course, the planners were quick to point out the increased on-site storage (using the vertical racks) that would be available from Vintage Partners, the increased services of launching and retrieving YOUR boat and trailer; all at typical Vintage Partners pricing, I am sure.

But the one thing I could not get answered was, "excluding on-site storage, will the number of trailerboat parking spaces for the public be increased, the same or decreased over the existing number? IF so, where will they be?" I'd certainly like to get an answer to that.

No one has been able to answer that at any of the meetings I have attended. I hope this is NOT because Vintage Partners has a vested interest in fewer spaces for the day boater to utilize.

The other big issues are the lack of public restroom facilities in proximity to the launch ramp (adequately address by the Revit, IMO) and the almost complete lack of courtesy dock space in the Harbor. By courtesy dock, I mean an increased area where boater can tie up to use the retail facilities in the harbor. THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING AS THE DOCKS AT THE LAUNCHRAMP FOR LOADING AND UNLOADING PASSENGERS AND GEAR. Those are rightfully limited to 10 minutes. How has this been addressed?

With respect to the ramp itself, I personally think the pitch is a Goldilocks ramp; not too steep, not too shallow, just right. If it were any shallower, the launch vehicle would have go even farther into the drink to launch. Generally, the people who are spinning wheels are either not using an adequate vehicle or are dealing with an extremely low tide and the exposed moss growth.

I was pleased to see that the guest docks appear to be moving close to the launch ramp. I cant count the times I have made the half mile walk from the docks back to my launch vehicle. I suppose it's good for me, but..........is it still in the plans to move the guest docks?

BTW, if you are seriously interested in getting opinions on this, I'd suggest that you post your inquiry on a couple of the active West Coast boards like Allcoastsportfishing.com, Bloodydecks.com, and SenorTuna.com. This is a great board, but it is much more active on the East Coast and the South.

Thank you for inquiring about these issues.

FearNaut · 05-11-2006, 12:27 AM

Thanks for the input wetdebt. I'm afraid I don't have those answers either. If I recall correctly, there is no plan to put trailers in the parking structure, and I have serious doubts that they're going to have much luck either getting the drystack approved or getting it fully occupied.

The parking layout I saw appears (emhasize "appears") to have greater total square footage, but I'm not sure how that will translate into more slots. What I'D like to see, and suspect will happen is that a lot of no-trailer vehicles will be sent to the new parking structure (once it actually exists) which will free up space for trailer draggin' vehicles in the ramp lot.

If the drystack IS successful, it should also free up a lot of the spaces in the main ramp parking lot that are currently being used for long term storage.

The plan has evolved quite bit over the last 6 months or so. I'm not sure what the specific layout of the guest slips is planned to be at the moment, but I can inquire.

Jim_Arndt · 07-18-2006, 02:31 AM

Hi FearNaut,
Great topic. Unfortunately I was not able to attend the meeting at the youth facility, I'm very interested in learning more about this topic.

- As posted above, wash ramps and improved drainage from them. There is always a slippery area where the water from the wash ramps flows across the road and then down the launch ramp. This should be improved.

- The ramp steepness has never been a problem. I'd actually prefer it to be more steep as opposed to less steep, I do not like to back my vehicle into the salt water. I do have a 4wd vehicle however, and a smaller boat (17 foot center console.)

- I'm not sure if this is off topic as you mentioned launch ramps only, but I'm also very concerned regarding the reduction of smaller slips. I currently have a inside tie where I slip my 17 footer. I have two small boys (1yo and 3yo), and enjoy the convenience of having a space to park my boat. We are at the boat three times per week, short harbor cruises, dinner at the public docks, ice cream, and lots of harbor walks and tri-cycle rides... I simply could not do this with rack storage. With the age of my children I need a slip where I can leave my boat with out worry. With only 1 small public dock in the harbor and restrooms 200 feet away this doesn't work well.

Also, I enjoy boats in the 26 foot size. I would really hate to see a reduction in slips of this size. 26 to 28 feet slip rates are affordable while still being able to fit a boat that is a safe cruiser for Catalina. I owned a 26 foot boat and kept it in a slip at DP for two years. Once my boys are a bit bigger I would like to do the same. Slips over 28 feet are too expensive, please don't reduce the amount of smaller slips.

Thanks for the post, will you be at the upcoming Coastal Navigation Class?

Regards,
Jim Arndt

Jefe · 07-18-2006, 02:11 PM

Hey Fear - Lemme ask ya something that you probobly dont know anything about... Whats up with the Cabrillo Launch ramp? Why no wash-down areas???? Love to launch from there but have not being able to flush out... Any news on a Cabrillo upgrade?

saltwaters · 07-18-2006, 10:23 PM

Thank you for providing this information and link. I have a lot of friends in the Dana Point harbor who are concerned about this project. Most of my friends have boats in the slips and do not use the launch ramp.

I just received notice that my name came up for a 28 ft slip in Dana West Marina. I plan to move the boat August 1, 2006. I have concerns over how they plan to reconfigure the slips. The stated goal is to provide additional slips for large boats. (I haven't read about this in awhile. I hope I am using the correct words) The idea as I understand it is small slips will be removed to make room for the larger slips. I haven't seen any information on how the reconfiguration is being planned. Is this information available yet? I think the idea was to put the small boats on the rack in the launch ramp parking area.

Another concern of mine is how they plan to move boats around when reconfiguring the docks. I hope that new tenents (like me) would not be kicked out during the reconfiguration project.

Any information you can provide will be usefull. I look forward to seeing you when I get to the DP harbor next month.

Bill

FearNaut · 07-18-2006, 11:43 PM

First thing you need to know is that new tenants in the marina will be required to get a CGAux or USPS Vessel Safety Check. It's free and will take about 30 min. You can PM me to arrange that if you need/wish.

You have a pretty good idea about the general plan. They are trying to increase the number of slips for larger vessels by building a fully enclosed dry-stack storage building. The cost for the dry storage is expected to be about the same for a wet slip, and that costs includes launching, recovery, and wash down. They're saying that the plan is such that someone who has a boat in the stack will be able to call 30-minutes ahead of time and have they're boat in the water ready to go in that time.

We'll see - Maybe. There is a big uproar about the dry stack. Folks in the neighborhood on the bluffs are worried about their view. The dry stack has not gotten past the Coastal Commission yet, and frankly I'll be a little surprised if it does just because of all the money up on the bluffs that is expressing its concern.

If it DOES happen, it's probably 5 to 7-yrs out. So get your slip while you can!

There will also be some effort to get rid of the derelicts that are in the harbor now. That will free up more slips for the shuffle when they go to rebuild the docks. The VSC requirement is part of that. Although it is only required for NEW tenants such as yourself, I suspect it will migrate to existing tenants over time.

There is also a plan to add temporay slips to the south side of the island along the main channel to handle boats that need to be shuffled while docks are being repaired and upgraded.

It has ALWAYS been in the wharfage contract that the boats must meet all state and federal requirements, now they are starting to enforce it, and for good reason. There are a few (just a few) in there that ought to be turned into artificial reefs.

All the official information is available here: http://www.dphplan.com

FearNaut · 07-19-2006, 01:42 AM

Jim - I'll be assisting at that class. They are not eliminating the smaller slips completely - just reducing them and rearranging the docks to accomodate more larger boats. You will likely be okay, though you may get shuffled around a bit.

Jefe - Sorry, like the military - "I have no intelligence" when it comes to LB ramps. Your best bet there is probably going to be watching The Log

Jefe · 07-19-2006, 01:02 PM

Thanks FearNaut!

saltwaters · 07-20-2006, 08:10 PM

The CGAux inspected my boat last year. It passed. I have the sticker on the boat now but have no problem with an additional inspection.

By the way, the marina office did not tell me an inspection and a passing grade was mandatory.

FearNaut · 07-20-2006, 09:51 PM

Interesting that they did not mention it.

If you still have the paperwork from the inspection (they should have left you a copy), and it's within 12-months, you are probably good to go. They will ask for a copy o fthe paperwork.

If your past due (i.e. over 12-months), they'll ask for an updated VSC. No big deal (as you know since you've done it before). It can wait until you bring the boat in. I think they give you 30-days, but in any case, we can get somebody to do it within a day or two once it's here.