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Old 08-21-2013, 07:34 AM
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Default Is the boat too heavy for the trailer?

Boat with twin Yam F300s

Specs from boat builder's website:
Weight Approx. 4900 lbs.
Fuel Cap. 290 gallons
Max. Load 4000 lbs.

So, the boat total shouldn't exceed: boat 4900lbs + max load 4000lbs = total of 8900lbs.

This is what I think in real world heavy loading: 4900 boat, 1100 engines, 1770 fuel (290gal x 6.1lb/gal), 200 batteries, add for full water tank, rigging, ttop etc. Then load it for fishing… 5-700 ice & bait, plus a couple hundred in rods, reels, tackle. Still come up with around 9000 or more.

Would anyone disagree with my estimations?

Now, the boat sits on a factory supplied alum dual axle Magic Tilt Trailer. The trailer label shows the following specs:
GVWR: 9200
GAWR: 5080
Carrying Capacity: 8200

Is the boat potentially too heavy for the trailer? What is the danger? What is the liability? Should I consider replacing the trailer?
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:03 AM
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The trailer seems borderline at best. Many dealers will put the minmum in trailer under their boats to try and save a buck... I had a buddy that bought a new 26 foot boot, back a few years ago. It had a trailer for a 23 to 24 footer that was way too light..
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:01 AM
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Agree with Cracker....borderline at best...danger? no immediate danger but over time the trailer will start to weaken is certain areas like the tongue, the hitch, axles and tires. things like over wearing on tires and bent pretty much everything.again its gonna take a while for these things to happen.... liability? in case of an accident.. insurance (being the way they are) will try not to help since trailer wasn't proper and i haven't heard of any situations where it has happend BUT you can be given a ticket and charged with wreckless endangerment(very rare)...i'd say replace it when you can but no rush
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:13 AM
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I have had an ongoing conversation about this with the boat builder. He says that since it is a dual axle trailer and each axle is 5080 rated, that the trailer is rated for 10,060.

I explained that the GVWR from the sticker is 9200 and the "Carrying Capacity" says 8200. I then asked about the dangers and liabilities should something happen, and tried to verify my weight calcs with him. He seemed to think I was a bit high on my heavily loaded estimate.My question:

So then does that mean that a trailer is rated at the sum of its axle ratings? In this case the sticker says the GAWR is 5080 per axle. That means you're saying the trailer can legally carry 10160 lbs, right? And it is legal and proper to carry up to that much weight on the trailer even though the label on the trailer has a stated GVWR of 9200 and a stated "Carrying Capacity" of 8200?

When I pressed for an answer, this is what I got: All I am saying is the axles are rated at 5,200 lbs each. Used thatset up for a long time with no issues that we are aware.

I then asked:
Ok… I understand this is the set up you have used and there have been no issues that you know about. But that doesn't really answer my question. Any idea who I might call to get the question resolved? And would you like me to report back what I find out?

Ya know, I just thought about something else… this would be a moot discussion and an unnecessary concern if my weight estimations of the fully loaded boat are off. Do you think I am estimating way too high? or do you think my fully loaded weight calculations are reasonable?


Response: We have figured the weight many times and feel the
trailer will do the job based on our numbers, so you
are probably a bit high.

Now we are always looking to make things better on
the boat and trailers. The current trailer comes with
E rated tires which carry more weight than the D
rated tires.



Basically avoided answering the question.

I need an answer so I know whether I need to change out the trailer. I don't want to hurt anyone or damage anything, or be legally liable for using an underrated trailer.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:09 PM
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5200 lb axles = 10,400 GVW

How much does the trailer itself weigh? The bunks, winch post, brakes, suspension, I-beams, etc... For a 22-24' trailer it's at least 1000 lbs.

The difference is the available carrying capacity.

Easiest way to find out what it really ways is to get it set up with all your gear and go to the truckstop. It will cost you less than $10 to weigh it. The scale will have 3 or four panels. Pull up so the axles are on one panel and the tongue jack is on the next panel. Drop the trailer and pull the tow vehicle off the scale. Have it weighed. Once the weight is captured, hook back up and pull off the scale. Go inside and pay. The weighmaster will print you a ticket with the weight on each panel. You will get your tongue weight, and axle weight. Add them together to get your total weight. Compare this to the GVW and see if you are overloaded.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:27 PM
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Remember, axle rating is just that. If you put a set of planetary axles, from a deuce and a half, under your jeep....as many have...does that make your Jeep a deuce and a half? Same idea. As stated, use for now, be observant for wear and fatigue. Keep your eyes open for a bigger trailer, and be ready to buy it when it comes up. Then sell yours, before its worn out.

But thats just me....

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnmoss View Post
I need an answer so I know whether I need to change out the trailer.
I think you do, if for no other reason than you will void Magic-Tilt's warranty by overloading the trailer, which by your calculations, you will most certainly do. The trailer label provides the irrefutable limit of the trailer's capacity.

http://www.magictilt.com/images/asse...operations.pdf
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parthery View Post
5200 lb axles = 10,400 GVW

How much does the trailer itself weigh? The bunks, winch post, brakes, suspension, I-beams, etc... For a 22-24' trailer it's at least 1000 lbs.

The difference is the available carrying capacity.

Easiest way to find out what it really ways is to get it set up with all your gear and go to the truckstop. It will cost you less than $10 to weigh it. The scale will have 3 or four panels. Pull up so the axles are on one panel and the tongue jack is on the next panel. Drop the trailer and pull the tow vehicle off the scale. Have it weighed. Once the weight is captured, hook back up and pull off the scale. Go inside and pay. The weighmaster will print you a ticket with the weight on each panel. You will get your tongue weight, and axle weight. Add them together to get your total weight. Compare this to the GVW and see if you are overloaded.
I don't own the boat yet... It is a boat I am considering. I intend to do this if I buy it. I'm just trying to get ahead of the game with my cost calculations.

Do you still say the GVWR is 10,400? It is clearly stated on the label as GVWR 9200. GAWR 5080. I assume the trailer weighs 1000, because the stated Carrying Capacity of 8200. The boat manufacturer will not clearly state in an email that the trailer is legal and proper. Only that it's the way they have been doing it, and that Magic Tilt has run the calculations and it is all good.

When I asked what the listed boat weight of 4900 lbs included, their reply was:

That is an approx. hull weight for the boat with no engines or rigging.

Magic-Tilt just did an analysis on the trailer and it checked out fine. You can call Magic-Tilt @ 727-535-5561 and talk with XXX, our rep.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:05 AM
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You have to go with the weakest link on the chain. For example, the tires may only be rated for 2050 pounds each, hence limiting each axle to 4100 pounds, thus the 8200 total weight rating of the trailer. There could also be other limiting factors, like the spring rating, etc.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:59 AM
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That is my thinking also...

I'm no trailer guru, but it seems that just because the AXLES are rated at 10080, that doesn't mean that the TRAILER is rated for that due to other components. Especially when the label GVWR differs from the sum of the GAWR. I have to conclude that the legal weight limit for the trailer and its payload is the GVWR number printed on the trailer label.

Am I correct?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 AM
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Looks to me like the trailer weighs close to 2000 lbs by their own calculations.

I think I'd go bigger, if it were me....
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parthery View Post
Looks to me like the trailer weighs close to 2000 lbs by their own calculations.

I think I'd go bigger, if it were me....
I don't understand your math. Please feel free to correct me if there is something I am not understanding here. My understanding is that GVW - max payload = curb weight.

GVWR..........................9200 (Max allowable weight of trailer and payload)
Carrying Capacity..........8200 (I assume this means Max allowable payload)

9200 - 8200 = 1000 Therefore the curb weight of the empty trailer is 1000lbs.

My simple subtraction shows that the trailer weigh about 1000 lbs. How do you come up with 2000 lbs? Am I doing something wrong in my calculations? or are my assumptions or definitions wrong somewhere?

(Now I don't really think that the trailer weighs exactly 1000lbs, but think that is a slightly safe number they use to spec out the trailer. If put on the scale I suppose it would really weigh between 900-1000)
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:04 AM
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Sketchy, real sketchy is this. The seller is playing with Federal Safety Regs and that is an absolute non starter since he appears to insist that the means of conveyance is legally sound.

Since you haven't swapped $$$, insist on a beefier trailer or take your business elsewhere. .
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:23 AM
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Thanks for the thought...

It's a used boat and trailer.

I would not be buying it from the manufacturer or a dealer, I only called them because I know they have great support and wanted the questions answered.

I'm sure it's safe and within spec towing it light, it's the heavy loaded trips that concern me.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:47 AM
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OK...so I think the weak link, and the reason it's rated at 8200 capacity, is the tires.

Magic Tilt sells the same trailer as either a TALS 3182 (8200 capacity) or a 31110 (11000) capacity.

A quick check of Eastern Marine's tire pages shows the 225/75D 15 trailer tire has a capacity of 2050 lbs each in a load range D. 2050x4 = 8200.

You could conceivably get more capacity, by putting a 16" tire (ST245/75 16) on the trailer. That's what Magic Tilt does, and then they stamp it for 11000 capacity. Of course, they also probably use a 8 lug hub.

You are correct....the trailer weighs around 1000 lbs.
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Last edited by Parthery; 08-22-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:35 PM
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Could be, I'd guess springs.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:08 PM
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I have emailed Magic Tilt's rep for the boat manufacturer on their suggestion.

I sent him a copy of the full email thread between me and the manufacturer, referred him to this THT thread, and asked the following question:

… are the two trailers listed below identical trailers except for the wheels, tires and hubs?


......Model# ..........................Boat.........GVWR.....L. ..DBF...Lngth......Tire Size..........WGT
TALS31110 245X75R16E 8Lug....29-31'......11000..102"...84"...35'-0"......ST245/75R16E...925
TALS3182 H78X15D ................29-31'........8200..102"...84"...35'-0"......ST225/75D15D..1000


I will report his answer as soon as I have it.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:43 PM
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Hnmoss,

That trailer is underrated!!!!
It's also going to beat the hell out of the bow of the 31t. Myself and 3 other guys when thru the same issues with magic tilt and CH 31t and 3 of 4 2013. After many emails, phone conversations, trips to the fiberglass shop, magic tilt final built a trailer that would handle to boat. After reciving the new trailers we had break problems.

It was a pain full battle. Love the boat hate the trailer. If you would like more info PM me and I'll give all the step by step details we went thru to get a new trailer built
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:25 PM
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Knew you were talking about a CH after the first sentence! I'm one of the others that jsnbrltt is talking about. Jason is spot on! I'm very disappointed in Magic Tilt. CH has been great though
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:46 AM
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jsnbrtltt & MayhemFT

Guys... There are many builders that make boats with the same or similar specs. I specifically choose to not identify any particular boat manufacturer in the open forum. My question is regarding a specific trailer and its ability to handle a boat that is built to the specs I have listed in my initial post.

Please feel free to give all the advice you think helpful, and please also try to keep your advice on the subject of the trailer. I believe the boat manufacturer is irrelevant.
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