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Old 02-02-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Crabpot Man View Post
That chart means nothing when towing with an F-450.
If looking for information specific to DOT and towing ONLY with an F450 you will be sadly dissapointed. However, one can deduce that a trailer could be towed by any vehicle capable (even an F450!) so the chart applies perfectly well for purposes of CDL requirements when towing / hauling heavy when not for hire.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:08 AM
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It's getting deep now lol.

I have a f450 and set up a commercial insurance policy for it. No big deal and no more expensive than a personal policy in my experience
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quit being a jack ass and explain yourself how a failure to yield and improper lane chang even relates to hauling overweight. Instead of comming on here with some cheesy one liners. Educate us all with your wisdom.
Negligence is negligence, whether you are driving under the influence of alcohol, running stop signs, or towing over weight. Unless your specific insurance policy states that it will not cover a claim caused specifically by towing over weight, what makes one think that they will not cover you?

I am by no means saying that it is a good idea to tow over weight, but a valid question was asked - why does everyone assume that insurance will not cover you if an accident is caused by towing over legal capacity?
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:19 AM
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Cause quite frm frankly I dont care. I spoke my mind and have several other people as well as one who does it for a living agree.

Quit being a jack ass and explain yourself how a failure to yield and improper lane chang even relates to hauling overweight. Instead of comming on here with some cheesy one liners. Educate us all with your wisdom.
Here is your claim, can you back it up with reference material.

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Insurance is only good if you are within the legalities of the road. In the event of a mishap and he is overweight, wrong tags etc the insurance co. Is gonna turn a blind eye.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:27 AM
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If looking for information specific to DOT and towing ONLY with an F450 you will be sadly dissapointed. However, one can deduce that a trailer could be towed by any vehicle capable (even an F450!) so the chart applies perfectly well for purposes of CDL requirements when towing / hauling heavy when not for hire.
Most states have adopted the Feds CDL definitions in lieu of their own drivers license "class system". Sure, you may find some exceptions among the 50 states, but in general these apply;

Quote:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Ford F-450 GVWR is 14k, that limits you to a 12k trailer.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM
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My best friend is a comm. Motor carrier trooper. In NC He said if you were pulled over with a standard license you would get yourself a ticket.

So sorry dont have the truck I have better... I have the man to ask. Would you like his number

It has the ability, so thats what the ins company see.
Go and rent a Penske F600 no cdl required or needed as long as it has no air brakes and has to be under a certain GVW think it is 24,500 lbs but not sure of that. I have had them before and had no problem make sure they know it is a flat bed or standard bed. I the agent did not ask the computer may assume it is a dump then insurance gets more difficult.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:52 AM
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It would be a lot easier and probably cheaper to just let me run the boat back and forth for you.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:56 AM
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It would be a lot easier and probably cheaper to just let me run the boat back and forth for you.
Can you beat the price?

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... trying to think of another way around paying someone else $9,000+ to bring my boat back and forth from Florida to New York each season...
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:14 PM
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so whats the difference between a f450 truck that you tow with or a RV based on an f450 chassis that you will pull your car behind?
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:25 PM
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so whats the difference between a f450 truck that you tow with or a RV based on an f450 chassis that you will pull your car behind?
A. Not many cars weigh 10k+.

B. Many states have exceptions for RVs.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:24 PM
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"A commercial motor vehicle that is operated for nonbusiness purposes. "Operated for nonbusiness purposes" means that the commercial motor vehicle is not used in commerce as "commerce" is defined in 48 C.F.R. 383.5 as amended, and is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4919., 4821., or 4923"

Sorry guys, I do have a Class A CDL but it is not required to drive for my PERSONAL USE. Some states differ in farm or personal usage requirements but a CDL is Commercial, as in commerce, as in business. Why do you think you see big trucks running down the road with "Not for Hire"on them, because they are exempt.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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"A commercial motor vehicle that is operated for nonbusiness purposes. "Operated for nonbusiness purposes" means that the commercial motor vehicle is not used in commerce as "commerce" is defined in 48 C.F.R. 383.5 as amended, and is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4919., 4821., or 4923"

Sorry guys, I do have a Class A CDL but it is not required to drive for my PERSONAL USE. Some states differ in farm or personal usage requirements but a CDL is Commercial, as in commerce, as in business. Why do you think you see big trucks running down the road with "Not for Hire"on them, because they are exempt.
Because they do not have common carrier authority, IE: they are carrying their own goods. It doesn't have anything to do with what operator's license you need.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:36 PM
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Family runs 2 F450's up and down the eastern US pulling big horse trailers and have never been targeted as mentioned above. Trucks are insured through State Farm. We do not have CDL licenses. I can't imagine a DOT officer distinguishing between a 350 and 450 from a distance to pull you over.

Sometimes you just have to play the odds game.
Horse trailers aren't 11' wide.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:09 PM
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Horse trailers aren't 11' wide.
Funny you'd mention horse trailers, slickest thing i ever saw was a buddy about 10 years ago used to deliver horse trailers all over, so as not to have to deal with any dot rules he would get a title to the trailer like he was the owner, when he got it where he was going he produced the statement of origin or title or something and turned it over, that was a slick move, still doing it.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:18 PM
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I'm in NC and have an F-350 insured with NC Farm Bureau, my agent called me after I had bought the truck and insured it with them (approx. 2 weeks later) and told me that with the F-350 I would have to put it on a business policy, I did, and of course I don't tow commercially and have had no problems. As a matter of fact the business policy is cheaper than the personal policy with the same limits.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Night Crawler View Post
Thats due to the fact you most likely have to have ahigher class cdl license to drive it.
CDL on a f-450 don't think so < what does the boat weigh?
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:30 PM
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Over 10k gvwr needs a CDL. This does not mean it needs commercial insurance. You can always derate the truck when you register it. I have Geico and I have heard Allstate, Nationwide and USAA will work. Every state and every DOT officer will have a different interpretation of the law. I think you'd be better off with a 3500 as far as DOT was concerned. 450's get pulled over all the time just to see if they are commercial. 350's not as much. 250's very rarely.

In Florida you could not legally tow your boat with either of these trucks based on its weight alone. Any boat over 15k lbs requires a two vehicle of 26,001 lbs. This info is printed on every permit. Your boat is 11' wide so I'm sure you will see the permits.
10k does not require cdl.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:35 PM
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its combination, not just the tow vehicle
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:15 PM
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Any lawyers that can figure this out??


Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— (1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or (4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.



commerce



Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...aspx?reg=383.5
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabpot Man View Post
Because they do not have common carrier authority, IE: they are carrying their own goods. It doesn't have anything to do with what operator's license you need.
Ok, here is the LAW by FMCSA that covers CDL exemptions for persons using vehicles for their personal use.



Drivers Waived from Obtaining a Commercial Driver's License
(subject to change without notice, check with your State licensing agency)



FULL WAIVERS
Non-Civilian U.S. Military Personnel



All non-civilian U.S. military personnel are waived from the requirement to obtain a State's CDL to drive commercial motor vehicles (CMVs). This includes active duty military personnel, active duty Reserves and National Guard, and National Guard Military Technicians while on active duty. These personnel, who also drive nonmilitary CMVs, must have a CDL for driving a private sector CMV.



OPTIONAL STATE WAIVERS
Farm Vehicle Operations, Firefighters,
Emergency Response, Recreational Vehicles, Personal Use
Drivers Removing Snow and Ice



A State may waive the CDL requirement for certain groups of individuals. In the following table, an "X" in a specific box means that the State has waived the CDL requirement for that specific group. Check with your State licensing agency for those drivers who may be exempt from the "drivers removing Snow and Ice" exception, published April 3, 1996 (61 FR 14677).



Column headings definitions:



Farm -Farm vehicle operations which are

1. Controlled and operated by a farmer

2. Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or both to or from a farm

3. Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier

4. Used within 241 kilometers (150 miles) of the person's farm.



Fire - Firefighters operating equipment which is necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions and are not subject to normal traffic regulation.



Emerg -Persons operating vehicles only used in response to emergencies.



R. V. - Persons operating recreational vehicles for personal recreation. Does not include operation of such vehicles used to conduct business.



Personal -Persons operating vehicles used to transport personal goods or equipment. Such persons would use the vehicle to transport household goods when moving, or


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regulatory Overview

2- 17



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

when renting a vehicle to perform household repairs. Does not include operation of such vehicles used to conduct business.
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