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Getting away from the issue of manufacturers, the emissions regulations that required catalytic converters on the trucks created a whole new set of issues, including the need to periodically burn off the cat. No manufacturer could anticipate every problem that was involved and they've all had their problems with the new technology. My feeling is that it takes at least three years for the problems to be worked out. Either wait for the third year of cat equipped trucks or buy a pre-cat vehicle.
It seems like there are plenty of reasonably priced Dodge's (5.9L) and Ford's (6.0L) on the market. Their seems to be a premium on the Chevy's and especially the GMC's. Have the bugs been worked out of the 06/07 Ford 6.0's? Is an 07 Ford still pre-catalytic converter?
Agree with Phisherman. I've neem looking hard for a diesel truck just as a second truck, and everything on the market fords,dodges are priced well. The duramax's all seem to be the premium.
I have an 06 GMC LBZ 3500 Dually that has the new "clean diesel" engine, that is the same as in the 09...it has a great allison trnsmission and runs great...There are some good deals on diesels, but many of them have high miles and are used for hauling...I bought mine last year with only 25K miles on it and have not had any trouble with it.
I also have an '06 GMC LBZ Duramax, however the new body style GM HDs introduced in '07 do not have the same engine set-up as ours. While the engine is basically the same 6.6 liter, the federally mandated emissions require the use of a Particulate Filter in the exhaust system to make it burn cleaner. The big negative about this additional emissions control is mileage suffers significantly. Our company's new Duramax gets 12-14 mpg That is 3-4 mpg less than what I get in my '06 Duramax. Our '08 Ford F250 diesel gets just 10-12 mpg.
I would definitely get an '06 or older diesel truck if I were shopping for a diesel. Just be sure you really want a diesel. If I wanted something newer, I would get the gas engine. My best friend has an '08 GMC HD2500 with the high output gas engine and he is averaging 13-14. Less initial cost and less fuel costs. He tows a 4WD backhoe with a gooseneck trailer, total weight 15K lbs, without any problems.
You will pay more for the diesel engine and more for the diesel fuel to operate it. Even though the diesel usually gets better mpg's than the gas trucks, especially the pre '07.5 trucks, your fuel costs will be close to the same or perhaps even more. Actually it wasn't that long ago I was paying $1.00 more per gallon for diesel than regular gas though now it is "only" about $.40 more. I drive over 3,000 miles per month. That translated into an extra $83 per month for the Duramax/Allison combo plus an additional $100 per month for the diesel fuel as compared to if I had bought a 6.0 gas powered truck.
'06 and beyond lbz. 4.5 - 5 lly. Love my 2005, but don't need it any more - had to "camp" for a summer so my wife bought a 5th wheel, and we parked it on our 35 acres (power, phone, internet). My gasser couldn't haul it, so I "had" to get a new duramax. I am at altitude (8500 feet, travel back and forth to Denver and avrage 16.2 mpg. I like black smoke, but I am bone stock.
The second half of 2006 was LBZ engine with the six speed allison trans-2 overdrive gears. Power went from 310hp to 360hp and 605ft-lbs to 650 ft-lbs. There are 2 easy ways to tell: the badge above the 2500 or 3500 elbem on the door will have duramax diesel and allison symbol on it. The LLY motor just says duramax diesel. Also the column shifter for the trans will have a +/- paddle button to control shifting the gears. The readout will be P R N D 1 instead of P R N D 3 2 1 on the 5 speed ally. The manual trans with the ZF 6 speed manual never got the hotter tuned LBZ. The only difference between the engines themselves was the LBZ's was a programming change to push power otherwise the lly and lbz were the same for 2006.
2001-2004.5 LB7 model 300hp and 520 ft-lbs
2004.5-2005 LLY model 310hp and 590 ft-lbs
2005-2006.5 LLY model 310 and 605 FT-lbs
2006.5-2007.5 LBZ model 360hp and 650 ft-lbs-6 speed ally
07 , 2500HD 2WD, CTD, 6spd man ,3.73rear end ,245/17's tires, muff. delete and the rest stock.
With a pencil 23.3 MPG running 2000 RPM's at 65 MPH and around town 16.4 MPG , this is with no more than 500Lbs in the bed.
Towing my Pacific 23 and all my gear , so far 10.5 to 11.5 on the hwy at 65 mph.
My motor has 8500 miles on it tonight . I bought the truck New in June of '08 and I live 6 miles from my work place [ reason for low mileage ] 3000+ of those miles are towing my boat.
I do miss my 460 cid but this cummins has a BUTT LOAD of power and does not slow down on the hills . I hit the BIG steel bridge that goes over the Mississippi on I 10 at 60 MPH [ the speed limit there ]with the cruz controll on, I never touched the throttle and I was doing 62 MPH at the top .
If you break 2K RPM's in any Diesel your MPG will drop like a rock, you have to find your Happy spot and plan ahead but if you don't care .........Just put your right foot down and hang on .
__________________ F350 4x4/ Dodge 2500HD 5.9L Cummins
Leaving the Picture of the Ford cuz I miss it
Pacific 2325 cc
Honda bf225
aluminumalloyboats.com
07 Dodge CTD 5.9 4X4 dually, auto with 3.73 gears,
truck also has topsider toolboxes & ladder racks;
14 to 17 mpg
11 ti 13 towing
better pulling power than my 7.3 Fords.
Overall pleased with truck, bought this before the 07.5 polution add ons, glad I did, no problems in 2 years, used for work & weekends.
I have a dodge 2004.4 with the 5.9L.I use this just for towing my boat,total weight around 9200 lbs.On the highway,I get around 15.5 mpg.No load,I drive it 75-85 mph and get 22.1 mpg.I only have around 55K on it with one injector that need changing when it was new.Everything is still stock and this is a long wheel base truck.And yes,when I pull my boat,I feel it,but the truck has all the power and then some.Another side note.My truck doesn't feel right till I hit 85 mph on the highways and then never park it in wet grass are you will get stuck!
I work for DTNA, Daimler Trucks North America. I have owned 3 Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins Diesel. Currently we have an 2005 with the 5.9 HP. This is an awsome engine. Recently the Cummins factory representatives were in and noticed my truck. They said the 5.9 was the best engine built in a while. If your looking at used, 2005-2007 mid year is the best on the market. The 07 EPA emmissions really screwed the fuel efficiency. And the diesel fuels you purchase now, everyone should add an additives such as Diesel Kleen, Lucas or any other additives to ensure the proper lubrication factors. The new fuels have less sulpher and not enough lubrication. I can tell the difference in performance. I also added the super chip for performance towing. Towing our 23' Polar with twin F-115's, we average 16MPG. Normal driving interstate and some country, 25.6 on the trip meter. Actual is about 23.5 mpg. We also use the Shell synthetic oil for diesels and a mobile one filter. I have friends with the Chevy Dura Max and Ford power strokes and their fine as well. I'm partical to a true diesel engine manufacture. Would be nice to have the Cummins with the Allsion transmission thought! Even thought we have never had any issues with the Dodge trans. I have 87000 on our 05 now and everthing is still strong.
Good point about the Gm Transmission. I had a 94 Dodge 3500 with a 9' utility body and after 3 months i had to bring the truck in for a recall. dropped it off and an hour later they called me and said the lift cannot raise the truck and they wanted to know how much it weighed, i said i didn't know and took it back to my yard to unload the truck so it could go back to the dealer. After they did the recall they asked again about the weight but i just shrugged and left. The truck loaded weighed over 16,000 LBS, i never told them but i tell you so if anybody ever complains to you about the older transmissions, it was an automatic and after 138,000 miles i blew up the torque converter, re welded it and had over 250,000 when i sold it!
Here's the deal. I'm currently towing a 28.5ft, 9,400lb (total package weight) center console with a 2005 Ford F150 5.4 v8 and 3.73 gear ratio. Yes, I know that I am at my limit and this is why I am considering a diesel. However, the truck tows and stops this package without problems in city driving. On the highway, it is a totally different experience. The F150 really knows that the boat is back there and is working extremely hard to get to 65 mph. I'm also averaging 6.5 to 7.5 mpg on the highway. Most of my towing is on city roads to a ramp that is about 10 miles away. It is the trip down to the Keys or to the ramps that are 20-30 miles away that I am worried about. Any diesel should get better mpg than my F150, correct?. Am I wrong to assume that my Highway towing will improve?
P.S. The boat came after the truck. I used to tow a much lighter 26cc with no problems. I have had the new boat since mid January.
I can only tell you my experience. I've had the same boat for about a decade now. Its only a 21 but its a "big" 21. Never weighed it but 5-6k with trailer is my guess. I could pull it with most anything around town. The smallest truck I used was a 1988 S10 (longbed with a 4.3). I took it on the highway once. Didn't make it too far without over heating the tranny. After a summer of that truck I got a 1991 F250 7.3 liter diesel. Top speed with the boat in tow was ~65mph. I went on a few 350 mile trips where I got in the truck, floored it, and kept it floored for hours. I got about 14mpg on average with that truck. The best I ever saw was 18mpg when I took a long trip on a road with few lights and long stretches of 55mph speed limits. The worst was about 7-8 and that was on the 350 mile trips with the boat.
While I owned the boat, I also used a 95 Tahoe with a 5.7, a couple of 9x F-150s one with a 5.0 one with a 5.7 (the 5.7 could get above 65mph but it didn't feel good). I gave away the 91 and got a 2001 powestroke F-250. Does it tow better? Yes! Does it live up to what I expected from reading on the net? No. Am I still happy with it ? Yes. With the 2001 I can tow 65-70mph and still have some power in reserve. With the other trucks it pretty well all out at 65mph. I really don't want to tow any faster than 65mph or so but I don't want to have the flog the truck to make that speed.
I expect any diesel will get better mpgs then the 5.4 towing. On long trips I get 8-10.5 or so with the boat. A friend of mine borrowed the truck to pull his jeep on a car hauler for a long trip. I think he got about 11mpg on that trip. Getting close to 10k I would want a 3/4 ton for the highway too. If the truck works good aound town (which I believe it does) I would just keep it and use your current truck around take it slow on the 20-30 mile trips and then make a friend with a 3/4 ton for long trips.
If I were buying one today, I might buy the same truck again but I would also give the dodges a good hard look. They do seem to get better MPGs. And yes I would buy Pre 2007. Buying a brand new truck that gets 10-12 MPG would drive me nuts.
Last edited by DreamWeaver21; 03-08-2009 at 11:23 PM.
I don't understand why you'd have to floor the truck to make it tow at 65. Yes, I tow faster than most people do. But, my 2006 F-250 with the 6.0 and automatic has no problem towing 12,060 pounds of boat and trailer at any speed you's want to go.
Here's a shot of my GPS on the dash which was taken in West Texas. At the top center, it shows my current speed at 80 mph. I do cover some ground when I am going cross country. The unit says I had covered 519 miles at an average speed while driving of 75 mph. In 7 hours and 12 minutes, I had made one stop for fuel, which took 16 minutes and 31 seconds which left an actual driving time of 6 hours and 55 minutes.
That hurt the overall average and dropped the overall speed to 72.5 mph for the day at that point. It also shows that I had 278 miles to go to make my overnight stop. The max speed of 815 was left over from a dandy little flight in the rear seat of something fast.
Here's the important part: The truck never blinked.
Your 2006 stock has more power than my 2001 stock. I have a tuner now so it is probably closer now. The truck I had to keep it floored just to maintain highway speed was the 1991 NA diesel. I think that truck rolled off the assembly line with 180hp.I bought it used with 3k miles. It had a 5 digit odometer so who knows how many laps it had made.
The point I am trying to make to the OP is that the internet can make one think a diesel 3/4 ton truck will drive the same way empty as with a 10k load and that is just not true.
I also have an '06 GMC LBZ Duramax, however the new body style GM HDs introduced in '07 do not have the same engine set-up as ours. While the engine is basically the same 6.6 liter, the federally mandated emissions require the use of a Particulate Filter in the exhaust system to make it burn cleaner.
I take it that the classic 07 GMC/Chevy 2500 are pre-federally mandated emissions? The new body style came out in 2007.5 if I'm not mistaken.
The truck sure knows the boat is back there. Performance is acceptable considering the weight. Fuel mileage suffers on the trucks the worst when you have to stop and start. Steady state is not too bad. But stoplights kill the mileage.
One thing I found out the hard way. Ford trannys start out in low if they are left in drive. If you drop down to third, they start out in third. The owner's manual says it is to maintain traction in snow , but if you ever try and go up the ramp in 3rd, it does not work.
