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All things equal, same interior, 4 door, 4 x 4, ect, which is the better buy? Looking for a 2009, looking at towing power, have a 23 Contender, but will move up in the next few years. Which truck would you buy? Which one has the less problems, which will hold up better in the long run? Thanks.
I have a 2007 GMC 2500 Quad Cab Diesel. I tow a 30 ft CC on a tri axle with electric brakes. The truck just barely notices that the rig is there, all 14,500 +/- #'s of it.
Very nice rig to tow with and excellent on the highway.... up to 23 mpg. Not bad for that size truck.
I've owned Fords and I will never go back........ unless GM goes out of business.
And why do you feel that Dodge is a piece of shit, cause you heard it from someone else. Everyone I know with a Dodge including me (2002 Dakota QC 3.9 with just shy of 150K nearly perfect miles) has excellent luck, great build qaulity. It may not look or feel as plush when new, but look at it in a few years. Everyting is placed very neatly, nothing, gives or squeaks, and mechanically there all perfect. I sometimes drive a 2001 F150 that has fallen part on in the interior where my Dakota is still in perfect shape. Get a cummins powered Ram, you wont be sorry. The 08+ Super Duties are built so cheaply, my buddies 08 F-250 lariat's chrome door handles are falling off, the trim on the bottom of the door is hanging off, the seats are torn, the interior plastic scratches very easily, the telescopic mirrors click and jerk when you move them....JUNK!! And it also has a strange jumpy idling problem, along with it's 10mpg and lack of performance to show for it. My other buddies 2001 F350 7.3 is a much better truck that gets 20mph highway and has amazing acceleration.
And why do you feel that Dodge is a piece of shit, cause you heard it from someone else. Everyone I know with a Dodge including me (2002 Dakota QC 3.9 with just shy of 150K nearly perfect miles) has excellent luck, great build qaulity. It may not look or feel as plush when new, but look at it in a few years. Everyting is placed very neatly, nothing, gives or squeaks, and mechanically there all perfect. I sometimes drive a 2001 F150 that has fallen part on in the interior where my Dakota is still in perfect shape. Get a cummins powered Ram, you wont be sorry. The 08+ Super Duties are built so cheaply, my buddies 08 F-250 lariat's chrome door handles are falling off, the trim on the bottom of the door is hanging off, the seats are torn, the interior plastic scratches very easily, the telescopic mirrors click and jerk when you move them....JUNK!! And it also has a strange jumpy idling problem, along with it's 10mpg and lack of performance to show for it. My other buddies 2001 F350 7.3 is a much better truck that gets 20mph highway and has amazing acceleration.
Torn seats in a 2008? It sounds like your buddy could trash a Sherman Tank. When I was out looking at pre-owned trucks, it became very clear that the majority of people who drive 3/4 and 1 ton trucks beat the sh!t out of them. Granted, a truck used for work gets its dings but I couldn't believe the damage some people can do to a brand new $40,000 - $55,000 truck in only a year or two.
no.1 > Chev/GMC (why not get a newer used pre-BS emmissions diesel unit? more power and much better economy. 07 or older is ok i believe)
- likely the most expensive of the 2500/3500 diesels, but the best engine tranny combo with best fit, finish and ride (most car like)
no.2 > Dodge diesel (5.9L cummins '06 or older, newer 6.7L are good engines but horrible economy due to emissions - 10 mpg unloaded )
- older 5.9L trucks are tuff units, perhaps not as powerful but very capable.
no.3 > ford (likely the cheapest option of the three, but last on the list)
- up until recently still used glowplugs on diesels (WTF!?!), loud, powerful, thursty, drives like a tank, weak trannys for engine combo
The 08 I speak of is not even a work truck, just a flashy daily driver that yanks a boat once in a while. Oh and I meant Worn not Torn sorry.....worn to the point that they are cracking a little bit and sagging, but not torn And yes, the 5.9 Rams are the best. Plenty of power and tourque....its a straight 6, you know it will pull a house down. And those trucks see 20+ mpg highway and easily see 17-18 city if driven easy. My buddies 2004 Ram 3500 with 220K still achieves over 20+ highway light. And he sometimes pulls loads just North of 20K and his auto tranny is still just fine. Ive driven and 07 2500 with the 6.7 and while it was mighty powerful and quiet, and has a bad ass 6 speed tranny, I couldnt get more than 15 mpg out of it and averaged 10 towing with it.
Location: St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands / Sammamish, WA
Posts: 532
Re: Ford F250 or GMC 2500?
I just don't think in terms of real world reliability there's a BIG difference between these three brands past initial quality. The reality is the newest generation of all of these brands have crappy fuel economy because of the new government emission requirements. From personal experience the Chevy feels nicest and most comfortable as a daily driver WITHOUT a heavy load. If you plan to regularly tow a HEAVY load then the Ford's the best option and drives better loaded than the rest. Oddly it appears that anemic Ford is in a better financial position than GM or Chrysler so long-term resale/service may favor Ford but realistically I think the worst that will happen to GM is Chapter 11 and they'll reorganize while keeping their doors open. Chrysler could be chopped up for fodder or sold to a foreign backer (think India) anytime it's I-bank owners find a sucker.
Why does everyone keep saying the new emissions stuff has killed the mpg on all the diesels. From what I can tell, that is just pure BS. Sure, the new Fords get really crappy mileage, but hey, they never had a 6.4 before the new emissions regs, so how do you compare present mileage of the 6.4 to the 7.3 or the 6.0? Dodge seems to have dropped a couple of mpg's too, but hey, isn't their motor new too? I know it's not the same old loud-ass thing they've been using for years. OTOH, by all acounts and going by everything I've heard first hand from owners of the new (07-08)Duramax trucks, they are getting identical mileage to my '02 Dmax (15-18 city, 20-23 hwy). I ask at the diesel pump when I see someone with a new truck. Heck, Makomyday has an '07 Dmax 4x4 with all the emissions crap and he even posted on one of the other threads in this forum that he's getting 20 mpg hwy, and everybody on the thread just ignored him and keeps claiming that the new emissions stuff is killing everybody's mpg...WTF?
If you want a truck to last a long time get a Cummins. The Dodge may have the weakest front end but the engine will last much longer than the v-8 configuration. As for fuel, when the low sulphur diesel came out I lost almost 2 mpg and use an additive for lubrication on the lift pump. I don't need any programmer with the power the Cummins delivers. I am also very satisfied with the truck as a whole. I used Dodge vans in my business for years and get 200k out of them in mostly around town use before retiring them.
Mike
__________________ They weren't biting at all.....then they slacked up.
Strictly from a powerplant perspective the concensus on most of the diesel websites seems to be that the new Ford 6.4 is a turd, DC seems to have worked most of the issues out of their new motor and the GM/Isuzu (the most mature of the 3) has the least problems and is getting the best combined empty/towingmileage.
If I was buying right now it would most likely depend on who would strike the best deal betweenGM & DC.
The reason emissions are being blamed for the poor fuel milage on these new engines is that the engines were developed to cope with the new emissions standards. Otherwise, Ford would still be using the 7.3 and would probably be the best choice. The 6.0 was better on emissions but otherwise had too many problems. My 6.4 in an F450 gets 8 mpg towing a heavy load, 15 empty. With a pre emissions 7.3 I would probably be seeing 12 loaded and 20 empty.
I think GM switched to a 6speed Allison when all the emisions crap had to go on. My 03 has no emissions and a 5 speed allison my buddys 09 has the emissions and a six speed allison and our mileage is about equal. This could be why Gm kept their mileage up and the others went down with the addtion of the emissions crap.
I think GMC/Chevy is the better engineered, designed, an built truck. Dodge is second. Ford, who sold out to the enviro-wacos, is last on my list.
I have a Chevy 1/2ton 4x4 5.3 gas V8 with a tow package - 20mpg on highway without towing. Towing my rig, estimated at 7,000 lbs, with no problems. I have not figured the towing MPG yet but I think its about 12.
__________________ 1999 Pursuit 2470 CC
2005 F250 Yamaha
No, GM went to the 6 speed Allison when they dropped the compression ratio on the Dmax 1 full point. They dropped the compression ratio to "quiet" the motor down, but there's a price to pay... lower efficiency, hence the 6 speed. Higher comp ratio = higher efficiency. They did this around '05 or '06 model year. One thing's for sure, the newer Dmax's are a heck of a lot quieter than my '02.
Also, they probably got lots of letters from owners... I know I sent them a letter. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be turning 2100-2200 rpm at 70 mph when max torque for the motor is 1600 rpm. I get 23 mpg at 60 mph (1600-1700 rpm) vs 19.8 mpg at 77-78 mph. The motor has the hp and torqe to push the vehicle 75 mph or so w/o getting the rpm's up so hi... wish they would put an external overdrive or something on it to fix this. The 6 speed drops the rpms about 100-200 or so given same speed, but they could go a bit further than that IMO. I drive 30k-40k miles per year... 23 mpg beats the he!! out of 20 mpg.
Ford F250 or GMC 2500? 
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