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Old 11-03-2009, 05:52 AM
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Default Trolling lure head differences...

What's the difference in flat head vs. curved head vs. bullet head? Are they used for different fish?
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:11 AM
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They all create a different action to attract fish

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Old 11-03-2009, 04:36 PM
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The shape head helps give the lure its individual action. Anything with a face will pop and smoke more than a bullet. Flat and cupped hold water best when it's rough and windy. But they all have their time and place.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:21 PM
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go visit our site..we have lures broken down by headshape with real pictures of each type. www.canyongear.com
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:26 PM
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the rougher the conditions the more action you will want from the lure (concave face etc.)
smoother conditions usually call for bullet heads etc.

of course, you can pull whatever you like. some days conditions don't matter the fish only want a certain style lure. who knows?????
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Old 11-06-2009, 02:39 PM
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People ask me this question a lot when they see the variety of lures I offer. What was said above is basically true - it's the shape of the head that gives the lure its action in the water. Different lure actions can be attractive to different species of fish, but this is not a given. Same goes for both size and color. I've had marlin hit the biggest lure in my spread or the smallest. I've had big bull dorado attack a 16" lure or a small hootchie. This may not sound encouraging, but there is some science to lure selection that can increase your odds.

Water conditions and trolling speed make a huge difference. For calm conditions, I prefer slant face plungers like #7 in the chart above. I sell more of this shape than anything else. The trick with these is to adjust your trolling speed so that the lure pops to the surface every 7-10 seconds, then goes back under. If the lure is constantly on the surface, you're pulling it too fast. Likewise, if it isn't coming to the surface, you're trolling too slow. This applies to most of the other shapes in the chart as well.

Bullets are for speedsters like wahoo and sailfish. You can troll these faster and both of these fish don't mind chasing down a good looking lure. Sailfish can make you crazy, though. They love to play in your spread and will often bat your lures right out of the water without actually taking one. The trick to hooking them is to troll faster and give them less time to play. Wahoo will often cut the lure off at the head. I highly recommend a wire leader if you fish in area known to have wahoo. Wire won't affect the action of a bullet-shaped head, but it will have an impact on many of the other shapes.

I also make and use a number of different jetheads and I always troll at least one jethead in my spread, often in the shotgun position dropped way back. The venturi jethead I make leaves an incredible smoke trail around the lure itself, rather than just a smoke trail under the skirts. Fish really key in on this smoke trail, especially in calm, clear water.

Colors - everybody has their favorite, including me. I fish in the Sea of Cortez most often and I love running petrolero colored lures (a brown/black/grey bottom outer skirt with a hot orange inner skirt). The color scheme resembles Humboldt squid and everything eats them. I also run a flying fish pattern quite often. And even though I've never seen a pink baitfish, I've caught and released lots of marlin on hot pink lures. Go figure. As a general rule on colors, go with darker colors in the morning when the sun is still low, then switch to brighter colors in the afternoon when the sun is high.

When it comes to trolling lures, no man can have enough. Don't be afraid to try different shapes, colors and sizes. Just because Joe Blow always uses a blue/white flat face and always catches fish doesn't mean you will. The wake of his boat may be totally different than yours, giving that blue/white the perfect action. Try a few lures and see what works best behind your boat. I used to fish a V-hull boat, but bought a cat about five years ago. I felt like I was learning to fish all over again because the trolling characteristics of the two boats is so different. However, once I tuned into which lures work best with my cat, fish were once again hitting the deck.

Try to position the lures in your spread so that they are riding on the face of your wake waves, not behind the wave. Third wave back for short lines, fifth or seventh wave back for your long lines. I tend to run my outriggers short so that the lures are working in the clear undisturbed water just short of being in the wake.

Anyway... I could go on for days here but don't want to bore anybody. I love lures! Hope this helps. Oh, some pix of my favorite shape below.
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Last edited by Dulcecita Lures; 11-06-2009 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:08 PM
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[When it comes to trolling lures, no man can have enough.

You, sir, just made my day. I just read this aloud to my wife. As a lifelong great lakes fisherman (salmon/trout), I am starting my 4th winter of fishing off the Fl keys. I am catching fish and enjoying the process of trying to find what works for me, my boat, how I like to troll. At the end of last winter started using and had success with daisy chains, now want to try spreader bars (my 23' boat is too small for dredges, I think). Also, have not figured out how to get hits on my downrigger that is bread & butter for salmon. Love the experimentation and I found your post most interesting. Thanks.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:36 PM
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Try live bait on the down rigger - decent size like blue runners or bullet tunas etc with a two hook rig in an area that has good structure and/or signs. If an amberjack, barracuda or wahoo can't find its way to your downrigger bait I'll eat my hat! Or if you prefer to use an artificial try some kind of swimming plug. Spoons work too but I hate dealing with the line twist you invariably get. Good luck!
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:27 PM
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all of the advise is good but remember. most lures are designed for large sport fishermen and the angle of their riggers. CC boats with T-top riggers will require running different lures and speeds. weight has as much to do with how a lure runs as shape. I have teasers that I use on my 70' that will not run on my contender and the other way around. my riggers on the 70' are 4 to 5 times higher than my contender. the angle of the lure in the water is completely different. Angle faced lures are more tough about this but it affects all of them.

I know we all have different styles but I use bullet heads when it is rough and have good luck because they stay in the water better.

one other thing not mentioned is the length of the head. longer heads like the moldcraft Widerange will work in more situations than a short head like an all eye. same flat head on both of them.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crothers View Post
At the end of last winter started using and had success with daisy chains...
You're quite welcome; I'm sure you got a major eyeroll from the wife when you read her my lure philosophy!

My wife gave up on me -- I think I remember words to the effect of "This lure business of yours is going to bankrupt us if every one you make goes into YOUR tackle box!" Hey, what can I say? Some of them are just too beautiful to sell!

Daisy chains - have you ever tried a jumping daisy chain? On calmer days, they can be a super hot ticket. A friend showed me how to make them years ago and I still love throwing one off the back and watching it work. I'll post a picture I drew of one when I'm on my computer at home. Basically, it resembles a larger fish chasing two smaller baitfish that are skittering across the surface, trying to escape. It's been deadly on sailfish, dorado and tuna.

I've never fished downriggers, but the previous suggestion of a live bait sounds perfect.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanchoco View Post
weight has as much to do with how a lure runs as shape.

I know we all have different styles but I use bullet heads when it is rough and have good luck because they stay in the water better.

one other thing not mentioned is the length of the head. longer heads like the moldcraft Widerange will work in more situations than a short head like an all eye. same flat head on both of them.
Absolutely agreed on the weight and angle issues. All of my lures are properly weighted with lead inserts and designed for fishing Hawaiian waters. They like to drop 'em and boogie over there! Way too many of the commercial brand lures I pick up and hold in my hand feel too light to me. But like you said, we all have our own style!
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:06 PM
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Great info. guys. Keep it coming. Thanks.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:50 PM
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Bullets can give you trouble in rough windy conditions. They don't have a face to hold the water and can get blown about in a cross wind. The heavier your line class the worse it gets as thicker line has more windage.

Another difference between most smaller vessels and larger SF is how stiff the riggers are. Most T-top riggers flex too much to troll larger lures and suit smaller heads better.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:23 AM
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Thanks for the comebacks regarding the downriggers...and I have decided to take the cable off and replace it with 200lb powerpro, as the "singing" of the cable doesn't seem to matter to the salmon but may to other fish.
I am soaking up all of this, thanks. Regarding slant head baits, I thought they would always ride the surface as this is the path of least resistance(?). It would seem unless weighted to keep the lip "digging in", the slant head will provide a ski effect..no??
I have a variety of sizes and heads in my skirted bait selection, without the knowledge of when to pull what. The goal of keeping the bait skipping intermittenly I can grasp. What else?, and pull rigged with ballyhoo or plain and how to decide?
I hope there are no dumb questions. Again thanks for the morsels of knowledge!
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Old 11-07-2009, 06:14 AM
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And then there is a lure that fits any situations and from any position.
Here is the link Flying Fish MY INVENTTION BUT YOU ARE PROVING THEM
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:47 AM
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I would love to see the pics of this Jumping Daisy Chain. That sounds pretty awesome.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crothers View Post
Thanks for the comebacks regarding the downriggers...and I have decided to take the cable off and replace it with 200lb powerpro, as the "singing" of the cable doesn't seem to matter to the salmon but may to other fish.
I am soaking up all of this, thanks. Regarding slant head baits, I thought they would always ride the surface as this is the path of least resistance(?). It would seem unless weighted to keep the lip "digging in", the slant head will provide a ski effect..no??
I have a variety of sizes and heads in my skirted bait selection, without the knowledge of when to pull what. The goal of keeping the bait skipping intermittenly I can grasp. What else?, and pull rigged with ballyhoo or plain and how to decide?
I hope there are no dumb questions. Again thanks for the morsels of knowledge!
That's a good idea to replace the downrigger cable with heavy spectra. It definitely can't hurt and also avoids issues with corrosion etc.

Yes, the angle on a slant face lure with a center leader hole will tend to act as a planing surface. The sharper the slant and the larger the face the more the lure will want to stay near or on the surface. There is an interplay between those factors that keep the lure in the water such as rigging, leader, skirting, nose taper, any added weight in the head etc... and those that lift the lure such as size of face, face angle, line angle (dictated by the combination of your outrigger or rod tip height and the distance the lure is from boat). Too much lift and the lure will constantly fly out of the water. Unlike say a kite trolled artificial flyer or rigged bait, very rarely do you want a skirted lure to act like this. Getting a lure running perfectly is like trimming a small boat to ride as well as possible in the conditions - rigging, skirting and placing it in the spot in the wake that best suits its characteristics, then making fine adjustments until it is swimming just right. Just as you adjust your vessel trim as conditions change, an experienced lure fisherman will also make the right adjustments to his lures. Having a selection of different shapes, weights and sizes handy allows you to control the action and presentation of each individual bait in your spread - how much time it spends on the surface vs travelling beneath, how much of a bubble trail each lure creates and so on, and that's not even beginning to consider colour options, adjusting your spread to the size and mix of species in your area and so on. Most of us troll at least four or five rods so there are an endless number of possible options for the look of your overall trolling spread. Much careful thought often goes into creating the illusion, even if those decisions may become instinctive over the years - and just as with the art of illusion, every experienced practitioner develops his own individual preferences in how to go about it.

The tools you are using may be a little different, but what you're aiming for is the same as any other fishing style: the management and arrangement of many small details into the overall strategy of your fishing program.

Some lures are designed to be used with bait or to be compatible with bait but many aren't. The best examples of the former are the Carolina witches and some Ilander and similar style heads with small and/or light heads and lightweight skirts. Lures with larger/bulkier heads and heavier skirts are mostly designed to function by themselves.
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:38 PM
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Default Jumping Daisy Chain

As promised, here's a drawing of the jumping daisy chain. You can use a heavier mono for the small hootchie skirts - up to 300 lb. test. The key is getting good springy action on the two jumpers as you troll the lure across the water. Also note, you can sub a straight running lure for the egg sinkers and octopus skirts as the main lure. Cheap and easy to make and outstanding for sailfish. They can't seem to resist seeing something else chasing scurrying baitfish.
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimW Texas View Post
And then there is a lure that fits any situations and from any position.
Here is the link Flying Fish MY INVENTTION BUT YOU ARE PROVING THEM
Those are pretty sweet, amigo! You've given me an idea for modifying some of my cedar plugs!
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Old 11-08-2009, 06:51 PM
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Thanks I love lures also and there are some really good cats on here, as some of the PICS show it
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