Ballyhoo - - - moving hook farther back

[auguste]

I was reviewing my fishing logs from 2 years ago and found that about 30% of the time the back half of the ballyhoo was bit of . . . sometimes the bite was so smooth that the outrigger clips did not even release.

I rig my ballyhoo like most people do, using a J hook that comes out about 1/3 of the way behind the ballyhoo's nose

I do not like to fish with two hooks on a bait so I do not want to add a trailing hook . . . my reason is primarily safety for those in the boat

Does someone have a technique where I can rig so that the hook is much closer to the tail of the ballyhoo . . . but at the same time not losing too much of the bait's swimming action?

THANKS . . . pics would help

[David TII]

Take a rigging needle and go up the "poop shoot" with the leader..Pull the leader through the lower gills and break the ballyhoo beak in half and split it with a knife...Pull the hook snug in the rear of the bait. Then after splitting the beak put the leader in the middle of the beak and use copper wire to make sure all the tension rests on the head of the ballyhoo...Work the copperd wire and around the gills and then finish at the beak to make sure its snug...

[catadromous]

Don't have pictures, but I sometimes rig them with the hook further back than you describe with no problem. If the hook doesn't contact the leading or trailing edge of the belly slit it will usually swim ok. Are kings cutting you off? They can drive you to a trailer hook some days.

Jack in Minneapolis
(but headed to Orange Beach next week!)

[weed.line]

try it like this...use headstart bally rigs...it's actually a beaded leader that goes thru the bally...no copper wire needed.

[tabascoT]

they also now make a very long shank hook specifically for ballyhoo. i haven't used it but its in the tackle stores and looks like about 30% longer shank.

Your most likely getting but off by wahoo. Use a bead-chain rig.

[Reel Obsession]

Gus

Knowing where, how and when you fish, I am pretty sure you are being bite short by dolphin; they are notorious for short bites some days. Tuna most of the time will inhale the whole bait. Some days it is agrivating, but knowing how you rig I would not change a thing.

[blueh20pc]

weed.line - 3/27/2007 11:59 AM

try it like this...use headstart bally rigs...it's actually a beaded leader that goes thru the bally...no copper wire needed.

Used those last year at the OBX fest. Very easy to rig, and no half bites. We caught Tuna and Dolphin on them.

[Teal fun]

I use the pin method (up through the lip) but use a needle eye hook and a long haywire twist. Put's the hook at least half way back. Good Luck, Ken

[offshore3144]

Gus,
Keep fishing like you are the baits dont swim near as good with a hook that far back. I wouldnt change. Like Paul said those small dolphin are tough some days. I have had days where a herd of those micro Dolphin look like Pirranna coming out of a weedline and would ravage everything. Anyway do you really want to catch those small Dolphin its not Tuna doing it. Keep it simple....... Mark

[Reg23]

weed.line - 3/27/2007 12:59 PM

try it like this...use headstart bally rigs...it's actually a beaded leader that goes thru the bally...no copper wire needed.

I bought some of these to use at OBX 07 after seeing them on here. My concern is with the hook. It has a long shank as I would expect but it seems very thin gauge. I wouldn't be surprised if a large tuna or wahoo were able to straighten the hook that comes with the rig. Anyone use the head but substitute a heavier hook?

Also, for those that do fish ballyhoo, what hook do you use? I use Mustad 7732 for my artificials with no meat but it seems that they may be too short for adding ballyhoo. Thanks.

[Jonafare]

I double hook all my bally now... I got tired of the countless cut offs (Kings). I use mustad stainless hooks, open the eye, insert it into the poop hole and up and over the lead hook. Vise grips are good to open and close the eye. I tried cutting open & stiching, way too much effort involved. I pre-rig all my bally and it took probably a few fishing trips to get it down pat (its a little like an art curving the bally to couple the hooks). I try to stay with small & medium bally, 8/0 hooks. My hook ups have dramatically improved. Next time I make some I'll try to take some pics and post them.

[offshore3144]

I use a Mustad Big Game 7691s 8/0 or the Mustad 3407SSD 8/0. I like the 8/0 size hooks for most stream fishing....Mark

[JupiterEdge]

Jonafare, I'd like to learn how you rig the hoo with doublehooks. I've seen lots of info about single hook rigs, but not much about double rigs.

After you insert the eye of the trailerhook does it exit back out where the lead hook exits so you can hook them together? Or are you using sticking your pliers down into the hoo so you can crimp that eye shut?

[Jonafare]

JupiterEdge

You single hook as usual, insert the trailing hook up the pop hole while bending the bally so as to exit the needle at the main hook. Slide the trailing hook's ring end over the leading hook's needle while the bally is folded... close with vise grips and straighten the bally out into it's normal position. The first several times you will make a mess of the bally... its an aquired skill that takes practice. The hooks I use are Mustad 8/0 stainless 3407 O'Shaugnessy.

Hope this helps.

[WildLines]

tabascoT - 3/27/2007 1:05 PM

they also now make a very long shank hook specifically for ballyhoo. i haven't used it but its in the tackle stores and looks like about 30% longer shank.

Owner Hooks they are lazer sharp. I have the model # at home. Been very hapy with them.

I don't like the bead chains, looks chumpy to me.

[Finnseeker]

David TII - 3/27/2007 8:58 AM

Take a rigging needle and go up the "poop shoot" with the leader..Pull the leader through the lower gills and break the ballyhoo beak in half and split it with a knife...Pull the hook snug in the rear of the bait. Then after splitting the beak put the leader in the middle of the beak and use copper wire to make sure all the tension rests on the head of the ballyhoo...Work the copperd wire and around the gills and then finish at the beak to make sure its snug...

Guys, I have read all the threads and I fish probably more than the average guy here fishing all around the world and in many tournaments. Have you ever started to consider using circle hooks as an alternative as we all know a J- hook is effective but the chances of any fish having a successful release or surviving is not as great as using a circle hook. Since I have switched over we have been nearly 100% catch and release in tournaments around the world and prefishing.

I know we dont like change and we all feel comfortable using what we know but I can guarantee you this : Once you switch over using circle hooks you dont loose as many fish and you certainly dont kill as many and a far higher release ratio. You just dont loose fish hooked on circles like you can with J-hooks.

Effective January 1, 2007, a new Federal regulation requires anglers fishing from HMS permitted vessels (and vessels that should be permitted) to use circle hooks when deploying natural baits or natural bait-artificial lure combinations in Atlantic billfish tournaments. This regulation allows the use of "J” hooks with artificial lures in tournaments. There are no recreational circle hook requirements outside of billfish tournaments. Commercial vessels using pelagic longline gear in Atlantic HMS fisheries have been required to possess and use only circle hooks since August 2004.


1.) I have attached some methods for you to see how to rig circles and this was illustrated very well in the marlin magazine, Ive also attached some scientific data for you so you can see
2.) http://www.marlinmag.com/techniques/...cle-45010.html
3.) Circle Hook Science
Dr. Eric Prince : Three hundred and sixty Pacific sailfish were caught in Iztapa , Guatemala , to assess terminal gear performance: 235 sailfish were on circle hooks and 125 were on "J" hooks. Circle hooks used on sailfish had hooking percentages (i.e., fish hooked/fish bite) that were 1.83 times higher compared to "J" hooks. Once the fish were hooked, no difference in catch percentage (i.e., fish caught/fish hooked) between hook types was detected. Significantly more sailfish were hooked in the corner of the mouth using circle hooks (85%), as compared with "J" hooks (27%). In contrast, significantly more sailfish were deep hooked in the throat and stomach with "J" hooks (46%) as compared with circle hooks (2%). Only one sailfish (1) was foul hooked using circle hooks, while 11 (9%) sailfish caught on "J" hooks were foul hooked. Sailfish caught on "J" hooks are 21 times more likely to suffer hook related bleeding than those caught on circle hooks.

Seventy five Atlantic sailfish were caught using circle hooks in the south Florida live bait recreational fishery to assess possible differences in hook performance between circle hooks with and without an offset point. No difference in catch percentage or bleeding was found between circle hooks with no offset, minor offset (about 4 degrees), or severe offset points (about 15 degrees). However, the percentage of deep hooking in the throat and stomach for circle hooks with a severe offset (44%) was comparable to the deep hooking percentage for "J" hooks (46%) used in the Guatemala study. A comparison of circle and "J" hook catch rates of Pacific sailfish and blue marlin, using logbook catch statistics from recreational fishing off Iztapa , Guatemala , was also conducted. In general, use of circle hooks resulted in measures of fishing success that were comparable to or higher than "J" hooks. Circle hooks also minimized deep hooking, foul hooking, and bleeding. Thus, the use of circle hooks has considerable potential for promoting the live release of billfish in recreational fisheries. See the rest of this article HERE

Dr. John Graves and graduate student Andrij Horodysky of the Virginia Institute of Marine Science have been investigating the survival of white marlin released from recreational fishing gear. In the two years of this study, the pair have applied pop-up satellite archival tags ( PSATs ) to 20 white marlin caught on straight-shank ("J") hooks and 20 white marlin caught on circle hooks.

Graves and Horodysky's research reveals that white marlin caught on straight-shank "J" hooks are far less likely to survive after release than those caught on circle hooks. Every single white marlin caught on circle hooks and tagged by the researchers survived while about a third (7 of 20) of the white marlin caught on "J" hooks died. Additionally, white marlin caught on "J" hooks were 41 times more likely to be deep hooked and 15 times more likely to sustain tissue damage resulting in bleeding than fish caught on circle hooks. Dropping a dead bait rigged on a "J" hook back to a billfish increases the time the animal has to swallow the bait and raises the chance of hook-induced damage to internal organs. These injuries were not observed when using circle hooks.

Circle Hook Documents
Film: How To Rig Circle Hooks For Billfish
A 20 minute film featuring Capt. Ron Hamlin will give you all the inside info on how to rig circle hooks for billfish - and how they are The Best Act Of Conservation You Can Practice!

This film illustrates the best techniques for use of the circle hook with bait. See the actual rigging methods used by the most experienced Guatemalan crews who have caught literally thousands of billfish with these radically different designed hooks.
Here is the FILM!

Dr. Steven Cooke of the Centre for Applied Conservation Research, University of British Columbia sent us this comprehensive report on existing circle hook research.

Circle Hook vs. J Hook in White Marlin Releases
Dr. John Graves of the Virgina Institute of Marine Science has been investigating the survival of white marlin released from recreational fishing gear. See his findings so far here .

Circle Hook vs J Hook
Eric D. Prince, Mauricio Ortiz, and Arietta Venizelos of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) Southeast Fisheries Science Center publshed this report titled A COMPARISON OF CIRCLE HOOK AND "J" HOOK PERFORMANCE IN RECREATIONAL CATCH AND RELEASE FISHERIES FOR BILLFISH 2 megabytes, may take several minutes depending on your connection

Harley Speir , a fisheries biologist with the Maryland Department of Natural Resources, produced a report with the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) workgroup on circle hooks. This Report summarizes research, recommends further research and promoting angler education.

An Alaskan Longliner , Frank Caldwell sent us his testimonial on using circle hooks for his halibut and sablefish catch.

The National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) released this brochure on using circle hooks.

http://www.ibfn.org/_pics/news/CircleHookReview.pdf

http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/PDFdocs/UPR_Watson5_2004.pdf

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/hms/new...0Locations.pdf

[Dansar]

Teal fun has it right, make the haywire twist longer and put a small egg sinker before you make the pin, helps the bait swim better.

Danny

[JupiterEdge]

Thanks jonafare! I'll give it a shot. I have been buying the double hooked rigs but they get expensive if you fish alot. The ones I have bought were like you described, two hooks without any sort of cable/beads etc. Just trailer rigged.

[gator05301]

Finnseeker,

That's seriously intereresting stuff. Certainly worth putting in practice when targeting billfish. Any similar info (hookup/ mortality rates between circle and J-hooks) on other species commonly trolled for (tuna, wahoo, Mahi)