This is embarrassing...how do you get a good edge on your knives?

[St. Pete Bob]

I've been fishing all my life and it's just one of those things [besides dancing] I've never been able to do. It drives me nuts. Nothing worse than hacking away at your catch with a butter knife, no matter how cold the critter is!

I've tried everything from stones to gadgets to this fancy electric thing my wife bought.

Any instruction on this matter would be appreciated. tks

St. Pete Bob

[inkahootz]

I feel your pain Bob. I can't dance either!
Same here with the gizmos, my buddys always seem to have a razor sharp filet knife but mine is dull as s$!t.
I am going to give it another go today on a set of stones that someone gave me. The directions say to hold the blade at 23 deg.and push the blade across the stone as though you are shaving a thin layer off of the stone. Well I shaved that stone. And my knife is duller now than before.
I am looking forward to any advise you get on this subject.

[monty245]

You can buy a kit at a place like Wal-Mart, in the sporting goods section. It contains a jig which will hold the blade at the exact angle,and three stones of different grits.It works great! Monty

[cgrand]

i use the ceramic sticks- it just takes a little practice. another option of course is to bring them to a professional to sharpen. it's not expensive at all.

one tip- get yourself a steel, and steel the blades before each use. they'll help keep the edge nice & sharp.

Pacific 19CC, Yamaha F100

[Hydro]

OK, i'll let you in on a secret, but you've got to promise not to tell anybody. Go to a store that sells good kitchen gadgets (like Crate & Barrel) and get the ChefsChoice EdgeSelect 120. Its about a hunert bucks, but it'll give you an edge that you can literally split a hair with. Its almost idiot-proof, too. After you've restored a good edge with this machine, you can maintain it with a steel or a stone, but you'll want to use the machine once the edge gets squirelly again.

If the beer don't taste like fish, you ain't doin' it right.

[Demo]

do what i did.throw out all the filet knives and get the cordless: anglers best electric knife..cuts through like butter and never dulls....

[chip]

I think the key to sharpening knives is patience, especially with a new knife. It takes a long time to grind down the edge, even when you use the coarse side of a stone. When I get a new knife it usually takes 30 t0 45 minutes of constant sharpening to grind the factory edge down. We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of swipes across the stone.

You can tell when you’re there two ways: after you’ve been sharpening for 10 minutes or so if you look closely at the edge of the blade and rotate it slowly in good light you can see two ribbons of texture- one on the back edge is the one you’re grinding, and the one touching the very edge is the factory edge you’re grinding away. The other way is to gently run your fingertip across the edge, you can feel the difference when you grind away the factory edge. After I sharpen it with the coarse edge it feels almost like a saw blade. Once I get that feel along the whole edge, I use the fine side of the stone and it only takes a few minutes to replace the saw edge with a good cutting edge.

I only use the coarse gray whetstones, not the reddish Arkansas stones. Though they don’t get as fine an edge with the whetstones, they’re still fine enough to make very clean cuts even in small fish. I used to use Arkansas stones, but the whetstones sharpen a knife much quicker. When I used Arkansas stones my knives would shave a clean swath across my arm, but that degree of sharpness seems academic to me, and that degree of sharpness is quickly lost when you’re cutting skin and bones. Ditto kitchen knives.

If you stick with it and look at the edge from time to time, you can see the progress you’re making. It just takes time.
Good luck, chip.

[bellsisland]

get yourself a set of the miracle blade knives. I have had mine about 7 months and they are very sharp(almost cut my finger off, bone stopped the blade) anyway, if they ever dull they will send you a new one for free.

Dean

[trouty]

A LOT of it has to do with the steel in the knife to start with (it's quality and hardness).

Buy a good knife and learn how to sharpen it with practice.

Arkansas stones are best for your final edge, if you wan't razor sharp, but they are rare as hens teeth down here, haven't seen one in maybe 10 or 15 years.

When you create a fine razor edge it will "lay over" real easy when filletting as you touch bone with it - it' is after all thinner than tinfoil.

When it lays over an otherwise sharp knife feels dull again.

Thats what your steel is for to lay that edge back straight so it cuts again, and again etc.

Sharpen to a razor edge with the stone, then while filletting - swipe with a steel now n then just to resore the edge..

A lot of the stainless steels used for knifes for fishing don't take that good an edge in the first place BUT then again they don't rust in the first half hour on your boat in salty environment either...

Harder steel knifes stay sharp longer, but also take longer to get a sharp edge on.

The hardness of the steel is measured with a rockwell test, dropping a sharp diamond pointed weight from a pre determined height, and measuring with a micrometer the depth of the hole the diamond point makes. Shallower the hole - the harder the steel.

Soft is anything below 58 rockwell, easy to get sharp but doesnt stay all that sharp all that long.

60 Rockwell is a pretty good blade...

62 is hard as all getout and will likely "chip" easy if you contact bone with it...

Typically - I'd skin a beast with a 62 rockwell skinner and bone it out with a 58 rockwell boning knife.

I'd use a steel on both knives to keep the edge up through the process.

Filletting when you think about it involves a LOT of bones (and tough scales) so it pays for something a little softer in the steel stakes..and use the steel often.

If a knife seller can't tell you (show you) the printed rockwell scale of your potential new knife blade purchase then you need to buy your knives from a retailer who can IMHO.

Steels ain't steels as they say!

Cheers!

[St. Pete Bob]

Hmm...the posts seem split between manual and some sort of gadget. Good info. all around and Trouty - sounds like you know your cutlery, thanks for the G2. Funny, the best of my bad lot seems to be a used "commercial" filet knive. You know the kind with the white handle? I'm guessing good or at least better steel on that one.

While I'm bearing my "lost" soul on this issue, I might as well go all the way. Hydro -that machine I mentioned is none other than a ChefsChoice 110, either your 120 has something different or I fall into your idiot's category. I have been able to get an edge once in a while with that thing, but now that I think about it...it's probably on the same couple of knives (trouty - to your point)

The ChefsChoice seems odd to use. Does yours kind of use a slot with a magnet (to supposedly get the proper angle) on one side and what appears to be a grinding surface on the other that simply vibrates? I understand what they are trying to do in principle, but drawing the knive through the slot is awkward for me. Your's like that?

I'm starting to think that good steel + practice on a stone = sharp. I think it's an art though. I mean I've tried and tried those stones and I just don't have the "feel" like others do. It's real disgusting to sit there stroke after stroke and feel no improvement.

St. Pete Bob

[Reel Obsession]

Go to a hardware store or tackle shop and pick up a "knife and tool sharpener" made by Accusharp. Best knife sharpener I have ever used. Quick and easy, can keep it in your tackle box.

Paul

2003 Hydra-Sport 2400CC Vector

[trouty]

The BEST Knife I ever had, was my 62 Rockwell Gerber, had it maybe 15 years before I "lost" it. (Fell over the side of the canoe, with a little help from a guest!!) .

I still miss it..one day when I can afford it I'll buy another.

What do I use these days?

A pair of commercial "butchers" knives I get for about 25 bucks each.

They take a great edge - have a good handle, and if (when) they rust or break I dice em away and get another...without breaking the bank.

I still miss my folding Gerber, but I can manage without as long as I have my Commercial butchers knives - ask your local butcher where he buys his cutlery (wholesale), and do likewise.

Getting the right knife to start with is half the battle..

I've used the various "angled guide gadgets" with varying degrees of success, but today I just use a stone bye hand - you develop a method (once shown) that does a sharpening stroke on the push stroke and draw stroke thats surprisingly accurate for consistent angles after a while - again get your butcher to show you this. Pay him to show you if you have to - it'a a lifeskill worth having, and no weight to carry around.

Best of luck with it...

A chainmail Mesh butchers glove will alow you to hold fish with confidence of NOT cutting your hand and is a great investement IMHO if you fillet a lot of fish.

A little "tip" for you, is to fillet the first side, from tail toward head, off the frame, BUT LEAVE IT ATTACHED @ the head end until the second side is filleted off the frame.

This way - as you turn the fish over to fillet the second side - the first fillet holds the fishes frame (backbone) up FLAT so you can slide the knife along wothout catching every bone.

If you take that first fillet right off, as is so tempting to do, - when you turn the fish over to do the second side, the backbone "sags" down toward the filleting board, and then your knife "catches" on every bone in the backbone and dorsal rays bones...

If the first fillets still attached and layed back into place before you then turn the fish over to fillet the second side - it holds the backbone up flat, so the second side fillet is easy to take off.

Obviously take the second side fillet right off, flip the frame back over and detatch first side fillet near the head.

Now lay two fillets scale side down onto the fillet board tail end toward you.

Near the tail wrist - cut a little backward sloping ridge of flesh for you to "hold"... and then lay the blade in flat away from you and start a cut to remove the skin and scales, blade ALMOST flat, just raised ever so slightly at the back.

DONT slide the knife back n forth - keep it still and pressed down almost flat.

Slide the tail wrist end of fillet, sideways - back n forth, as you "Pull" the fillet toward you, and Push the knife away.

Saw the flesh off bye moving the fillet not the knife - this is how you get good control of the knife - bye holding it still - and moving the skin back n forth with the other hand, which is behind the blade for safety.

Too easy! Give it a try and report back.

You pick up a few things working commercial finfish wetline boats!

Cheers!

[tprice]

Thanks for all the info folks. I thought I was the only "idoit" that could not sharpen a knife. I seems everytime I try it the knife gets duller.
I have tried stones, rods, the hand held sharpners that you pull the knife through and I can never tell that I get that "razor" edge on my filet knife that I am looking for.
I finally started taking mine to the local outdoors store and paying them to sharpen them.

1999 Sea Pro 210cc
Suzuki 225 EFI

[Hydro]

Bob;

I found out the hard way that there's considerable difference between the ChefsChoice 110 and the 120. I bought the 120 for myself and am well pleased. It has three slots for coarse, med., and fine edge. It uses a circular honing motion. I was so pleased that i bought one for my mother as a XMas gift last year, only they didn't have the 120 in stock so i got the 110. It didn't work nearly as well, in fact it took me about a half an hour to get an edge decent enough to cut a ripe tomato. Bummer. If you got the 110 recently, you might want to try to take it back and get the 120. And no, you're not an ID10T.

If the beer don't taste like fish, you ain't doin' it right.

[tidester]

This may seem kinda crude, but I sharpen my knives with power grinder first. I put a 7" fiberglass mesh abrasive wheel on my bench grinder that is roughly 120 grit and just feather it so it doesn't even get warm. I use about 10 to 15 degree angles per side. This gets the general shape, without heating the edge enough to anneal the temper out of the steel. Too sharp and the edge becomes weak. Too dull an angle and it's harder to get a sharp edge.

Then I get out the oil and the stones and simply draw the knife along an oiled stone a few times to hone a razor sharp edge. Do not press the blade down; simply float the edge, scraping oil with the sharp edge of the blade. I have one of those triangular block thingy's that have medium, fine and very fine grit stones on each of 3 sides. I increase the angle a little bit for each grit. In 5 minutes, it will be surgical sharp and will easily skin a tomato without any pressure.

In my humble opinion, the trick isn't to get a sharp edge - the trick is to get a sharp edge that will stay sharp. When you start cutting through the lateral line bones of a big dolphin, a poorly sharpened knife will dull real quickly!

A buddy of mine works in the medical field and I once asked him how they sharpen scalpel blades and hypo needles. He swore they were closely guarded company secrets and wouldn't give me a clue.

By the way, I use the same techniques to put a sticky sharp edge on diamond pattern hook sharpening. I just skip the fine and extra fine steps.

[rainmaker]

Bob, I use a LANSKY sharpening set on my hunting and fishing knives. I'll confess that I can get a Razor edge either the ole' fashioned way (freehand) or the lansky way . There is also a company called DMT that makes a lansky type sharpener that uses different series of diamond stones. Both types use the "JIG" to hold the blade and a guide rod that goes thru the jig to ensure that you stroke they blade on the same angle with each stroke. Also they both allow for diff. blade angles that you might desire. Hope this helps and watch out that knife'll cut ya'

" GET THE GRADY " "Theres two things SALTWATER won't SCREW UP . 1. SALTWATER 2. FISH.

[St. Pete Bob]

You guys ready for the punch line?

I spent a good portion of yesterday afternoon "honing" my stone skills without much apparent progress. So I reach into the sink after dinner and one of my knives was hiding under a plate...cut the !@#$ out of my thumb.

Guess I'm making ouchprogress. HA!

St. Pete Bob

[Codfisher]

This is a very sore subject with me. I have probably bought every gadget sharpening device ever made an none of them them seems to work.

I fish on a boat in Maine whose first mate cuts fish like no man I have ever seen. I asked him about how he sharpened his knives and in the tradition of a true mainer he simply smiled at the question. Time and patience are the key he finally replied. I have watched him work his knives on the way to the ledges for hours at a time using what he called his honing and polishing stones. The polishing stone to touch felt like glass and when I asked where I could get one he again smiled and said I was about 20 years to late in asking. One hint he gave me was that any steel that has ridges ( which most do) is worhtless, His steel is again as smooth as glass and he seems to use it almost as a polishing tool in the manner in which he runs the blade over it. On this last trip he cut over 75 steaker cod for us and his last fillet was as clean as the first and the rack was transparent. Bottom line is ...I have a lot to learn.

[BoatGuy]

I have to agree with all that said Chef'sChoice EdgeSelect 120. I though I was out of my mind spending $100 for an electric knife sharpener (so did my wife). Now, I wouldn't be without it. I hate dull knives and the local knife sharpening store did just an OK job. This thing is fantastic. It is also idiot proof! This is NOT like the knife sharpener on the back of your electric can opener.

First I ran a cheapo knife through, just to test it. Razor sharp. Then all the kitchen knives. Finally all my fillet knives. All came out RAZOR sharp. All my fishing friends now bring me their knives to sharpen!

I even have on of those long blade machetes. Ran that through the Chef'sChoice EdgeSelect 120. I can cut a piece of paper like a razor with the thing.

It has three Diamond hone slots. The first is for really dull stuff, the second for regular and brush up. The third fine hones.

Try E-bay as they are sometimes discounted. I can't say enough good stuff about this thing. Anyone who tries it will love it. I have learned a lot on these boards and I can finally give some good advise to you guys who want razor sharp knives and do not want to spend hours with a stone when you can spend minutes with this thing.

And just so someone doesn't ask: I do NOT work for them.

[chip]

Codfisher, you can use a leather strop to get that pollished edge. Too much trouble for me. chip.