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Old 06-09-2005, 10:22 AM
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Default Trolling dead cigar minnows

Do you rig them similiar to ballyhoo? Last year I tried trolling them using a hank brown setup but they spun around instead of "swimming." Are there any "tricks of the trade" such as with the hoo. Ie breaking their backs, poking the eyes out, depooping, wiring or banding the mouth shut, etc.
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

We troll them for kings with Hank Brown's and a skirt. We only hook them through the nose and leave the stinger out. Just experiment with speed, as we only troll as though you were using live bait, bumping in and out of gear. After you hook them put them in the water beside the gunwale and watch how they swim, that way you can tell whether or not they spin and can adjust accordingly. Hope this helps, tight lines.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Quote:
aftergolf - 6/9/2005 12:40 PM

We troll them for kings with Hank Brown's and a skirt. We only hook them through the nose and leave the stinger out. Just experiment with speed, as we only troll as though you were using live bait, bumping in and out of gear. After you hook them put them in the water beside the gunwale and watch how they swim, that way you can tell whether or not they spin and can adjust accordingly. Hope this helps, tight lines.
Same here....hook just like you were putting on live pogies or cigars. Good luck.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Thanks for the replies. It's kinda surprising to me that you troll the minnow so slow. I was trying varying speeds from 3 to 6 knots. Sounds like I was pulling a skier compared to the slow trolling speed. I'll get a few more Hank Brown 1/2 oz rigs and give them a try. Maybe a couple 1/4's too.
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

round2it...

I've had some issues with spin as well. I've started using some of the bucktails with more of a flat head (SPRO makes a good one). I was out several days over Mem week using both live and dead cigs. Best luck came on the live but the dead baits that we rigged using the SPRO bucktails worked very well also. I kind of lucked into it, actually. We wound up breaking off all of the rigs that we pre-tied and had to start making rigs on the boat. After realizing that I had left most of my tackel at the dock, the only thing that I could find on the boat to fit my needs was a box full of bucktails that we typically use for Trout and Flounder. The "flat head" bucktails seemed to swim much better than the others that we were using so we swiched all of the remaining rigs to the SRPO bucktails. They seemed to swim better even slightly higher speeds, 3-4 knts, and got more hits.

As far as trolling speed for dead cigars, faster seemed to work better for us. The live baits we used were out swimming the boat so when we ran out and switched to the dead, we tried a faster trolling speed and the bite never missed a beat. I think the key is to be absolute certain that ALL of the baits in your spread are swimming well and not spinning. IMHO, if I was a king mac and a little school of lunch swan by but one of the five in the group kept doing a funny circle, I would wait for one of the other billions of schools of lunch in the ocean to swin by. In other words one bad apple spoils the bunch. With all of the fishing pressure that these fish see anymore, there getting pretty smart. Think like a fish...

Just my opinion...
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Old 06-11-2005, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

The Penco rig or Fairwaters rig works well on all round baitfish around the size of Cigar minnows. They can be trolled bare or inside a Jap feather or Hoochie.

I learned to make a "safety pin rig" when I was a kid and have seldom used anything else inthe past 50 plus years. When the bite is on, I pull 6 of these rigs behind my charterboat. There is no lure made that will outfish a dead Cigar minnow.

The "Safety pin rig" takes about 1 minute to make and I can bait it in 5 seconds flat. I can't figure out how to post a pic here but I have it illustrated in the TIPS & TRICKS setion of my website, bigbendsportsman.

My hook of choice for rigging Cigar Minnows is a Mustad 3407 size 7/0. This rig has caught more White Marlin for me than any other rig I have ever used.
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Old 06-12-2005, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Round2it,

Something you may want to try that worked well for me last year is a different rig altogether. Take two 8/0 hooks and drive the point of one through the eye of the second hook. The first hook goes through the eye of the cigar minnow and the second one dangles as a trailer (probably straight out at trolling speed). Tie on 8 ft of 80# floro or 100# mono and run a 1 oz sea witch (or cape fear or Blue Water Candy) on it. I ran them anywhere from 3.5 to 6.5 knots. The faster speeds seemed to work best. It's simple and fast and catches fish. Gonna try it with Sailures this year. Besides kings I have caught a Blackfin Tuna on it. 1 oz Pink/Chartruese Cape Fear Mylar Witch worked very well. I'd try green/chatruese and blue/white as well.

Hal
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Old 06-13-2005, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Trolling dead cigar minnows

WE use the 1/2 oz hank brown hook-up with a stinger and have no problem. We insert the hb hook up through the jaw and a stinger near the rear - make sure the leader is not tight. Good luck.
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Old 06-13-2005, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Thanks for the replies. Hal, I'm gonna give that a try soon when I get a chance. It seems that whenever I have an opportunity to go, the weather and sea conditions put the brakes to that pretty fast.

I'm gonna look into the safety pin rigs and bucktails here in a few minutes before I leave for work.

Tight lines.

EDIT

whopperstopper, I looked at your website and noted lots of useful tips but couldn't locate your safety pin cigar minnow rig photo's. I sure would like to see them.
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Old 06-13-2005, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

I just bumped the tip to the top of my Tips & Tricks Forum. I coudn't locate it with the site search function because I gave it a strange name. I had to look pretty hard beause there are more than 400 unique tips in the forum.

Basically the topic shows 5 rigs made from one basic rig that can be easily modified to cover most applications where wire is required. This makes storage of prerigged rigs a lot easier for a small boat.

Please pardon my messy hand drawings. If you need a better illustration, I'll e-mail it to you.

The "Safety Pin" rig uses only one hook making it easier and safer to release unwanted fish. (Easier on the fish too.) I seldom have a twisted line with the Safety Pin rig because the fish swims perfectly straight. Baiting takes about 5 seconds.
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Old 06-13-2005, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Nice page, great tips on the wire rigs. Thanks. Do you use straight hooks or offset? Does it matter much in the saftey pin rig since the hook is not inserted into the bait?
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Old 06-13-2005, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

IF YO CIGAR IS "SPINNING"....if you are using the "stingers"....check and
make sure the stinger is not "stretched wire tight"...let there be a little
slack...and tilt the stinger shaft towards the head....place just one hook
of the stinger in the arse end....or just let the stingers ride free...(like
wearing boxers) let those puppies dangle....

If the cigar is frozen...dip'm and lossen him up....flex'm in all directions...

then kiss him and toss him over de side..............
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Old 06-13-2005, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

For trolling, use non-offset hooks. My all time favorite is the Mustad 3407 or 34007.

Check further on the site to see how to make weedless hooks in about 30 seconds. Have you ever tried to find a stainless steel weedless hook? How about a weedless size 16/0 big game hook? I make them all the time and show the method I use in my T&T forum.
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Old 06-13-2005, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Thanks Captain Ken.
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Old 06-15-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Capt. Ken,
I can't seem to find any rig drawings on your website. I looked at tips and tactics, but it only references the rigs, but doesn't show any. Am I in the wrong place? I am here.

http://www.bigbendsportsman.com/tact..._home_page.htm


Thanks for the info
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Old 06-15-2005, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Pirate Plugs work great too u can also rig ballyhoo on them great off shore or inshore.
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Old 06-16-2005, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: Trolling dead cigar minnows

Nope, gotta look at "Tips &Tricks." Follow the instructions on post 1 (sticky post) and you can see all 400 plus tips.

here is what you arelooking for.

http://bigbendsportsman.zeroforum.com/zeroforum?id=15
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