WE KEEP LOSING THE MONSTER YELLOWFIN - ANY IDEAS??

[twotems]

We've been hooking up with some monster yellowfin here but have lost them all. We get the lures back though. Sometimes the fights last for 5 minutes, other times for 15 minutes and then they spit the lure. Hooks are 8/0-12/0*J and sharp. Drags strong (as I like them that way so the fish hooks itself). We don't have this problem on the small to medium yellowfin on our smaller lures.*What do you think we should be doing?

[Bullshipper]

Sounds like too much pressure, too early in the fight to me.

If you fish with lever drag reels, it is best to use a little lighter drag when the fish is green, then crank her down 20 minutes latter as he gets tired and is likley to rip the hook out of the side of his mouth. If you fish star drags, then loosen them up to 23 lbs and load your reel with a mile of braid. And following large fish with the boat when they are green is also a way to relieve pressure and not dump your whole spool.

If you use strong drags, the hole around the shank can also get fairly large, and here a circle hook will be harder to throw than a Jhook.

Thick shanks are also helpfull.

[DD]

I agree with bullshipper. We troll with very light drags, and only push them up after the initial run (still not to strike). When the fight goes vertical, you can apply full drag.

The fish will still hook itself with only a few pounds of drag.

[twotems]

Fair enough. But when I say strong drags I mean you can still pull line off easily with your bare hand. The fish takes the lure and makes the first run, then we settle down for the fight. No drag adjustment at that point. When he wants to go he takes line, we take it back etc etc. That shouldn't rip a hook out of a YFT's mouth should it?

[DD]

The damage is probably being done at the initial strike. When the tuna whacks the lure with alot of resistance to the line, a rip will form, making it much more likely that the hook will come unbuttoned.

What size tuna and tackle are we talking about here?

[twotems]

100-200lb YFT. Penn 70vs' and Shimano 80 Triton all with 80lb line. Marlin lures, Mann's Giganticus 50+, Braidrunners (double hooks ). Big lures basically.

[CaptPegLeg]

I'm sure you have the bend of the hook back by the end of the skirt but if not you may have the head of that lure interfering with the hook set.

[Tightline Rod's]

Change to circle hooks and let them run a good bit then simply engage the drag to set the hook .....


John

[Patudo]

I'm kind of surprised by the problem you're having as big tuna tend to strike like a rocket and hooking up shouldn't be a problem. This is where you need a drag scale so we have some idea what your drag is at. When you say you're fishing with a strong drag but then you say you can still pull line off easily, the only real way for us to know what drag you're fishing with is to be there on the boat with you. Whereas if you know you are working with a measured say 20 lb of drag on a walking pace pull off the rod tip, we know pretty much exactly what drag we are working with, even if we're 2000 miles apart.

Plugs have a bad reputation for pulling the hook on heavy drag and big tuna... I would guess that your drags are actually on the light rather than the heavy side (most drags set by hand tend to be lighter than the person setting the drag believes), but this may be what's happening. The small treble hooks and double hooks don't grab as well as a big single hook and pull more easily. Also, big fish have more power than smaller ones and are better at levering a plug out of their mouth. However, if you're using big hooks like 11/0, 12/0 with marlin lures this shouldn't happen, the big hooks hold very well and the lure slides up the leader away from the fish during the fight. How many fish did you hook up in total? How many fish were lost on the plugs, and how many on the marlin lures? Could you run us through each hookup and how long it lasted and what happened before the fish was lost?

I need to run and it would be great to hear more about how your fish were lost but in the meantime my recommendations would be as follows... For plugs, I'd run the biggest strongest treble hooks the lure will carry (I don't like double hooks) and use no more than about 15 lbs drag on the bite and use only as much drag during the fish as will let me regain line. For skirted lures, try 9" to 11" lures with either a single or two hook 10/0 or 11/0 rig or a single 12/0. Tuna lures should have the single hook or the first hook of a two hook rig right up behind the lure head. Run about 15 to 20 lbs drag on the bite. You're unlikely to have lost them due to error in fighting technique as tuna tend to keep the line for you, but especially on a plug, keep that line tight and that rod bent all the time, and regain line with short pumps.

Gotta go- talk to you tomorrow.

[Bullshipper]

I am going to recommend some more malarkey to you after reading your second post.

Change all treble and double hooks to 12-14/0 thick shank SINGLE CLOSED J Hooks for trolling- closed meaning that the arc of the hook bends about 210-240 degrees, not just 180 degrees. Use 12-14/0 cirle hooks for chunking and live baiting.

Use a drag scale to adjust up to 23 lbs at sunset, but use a marker to mark the reel where 10 lbs of drag falls for trolling and the initial 15 minutes of the fight.

Drop the hooks a way back in the skirts on your lures so that just the point is hidden.

When the fish is running north, run the boat NE, or rather 45 degrees to one side of his path of travel. This keep the line forward where the captain can see it to help you keep tension, let the line drag in the water so that this tires him out, lets him swim faster tiring him faster, and lets you gain line will not pressuring you or the hook as much. The hook will also be pulling with the eye and its point pointed down his gut as he pulls away from you, driving deeper into the fishes mouth and providing more of an opportunity for a tail wrap.

Check your drags- are they sticky?

Do you have a good harness that allows you to use your legs, not your arms? People do silly things when they get hot, tired and desperate.

Let your crew do some of the driving, as they may be setting of the rods wrong without your knowledge. Do some of the fishing too, as large tuna are tough on new anglers.

Finese thy fish- do not try to horse- move slowly and decidedly.

Have a drill established for your crew.

[prockvoan]

When we chum or live baiting,12/0 circle hooks are great.The trick to it is,let the fish run for about 7 to 10 seconds before throwing the reel to strike(full strike set at 21 lbs drag).I set the rods in the rod holders till after the fish is hooked up good.When set up,I set the drag at 1 to 2 lbs,dam near free spooling just keeping it from backlatching(no bird net please). Never pulled a hook yet!
Islanders with bally hoo's,12/0 j hooks.Same deal,set the drag around 5 lbs letting the fish eat it deep for a count of 10 to 15 seconds,move it up towards full strike,but marking the reel at around 17 lbs.I will play the fish for one or two runs getting line back on,after that I apply more drag
moving over full strike if the fish is not to green and it is in the circle of death.
When you saying that you are pulling the hooks,is the fish in a circle?If so,don't try to pump the rod till the fish is heading back towards the boat,never pump when it is heading away.Learn that the hard way,you will hurt youself in the long run.Short pumps nothing fast.Take your time,the most that could happen is a shark will hit the fish.

[twotems]

ok Patudo here goes:First hookup was on a large Alien type lure in open water on the outrigger. Solid strike, long 1st run then he spits the hook. We did nothing.Second hookup was my infamous "lost" braidrunner lure that we recovered with a fair amount of flesh on it.Third on the Giganticus and he looked to be holding well for about 15 minutes. VERY long first run, my buddy got in the chair and started on him. Good fight ensued. Dropped to lower gear and he came off.Fourth on a large marlin slanthead lure, double 11/0 hooks. Took it well and went deep. My friend couldn't even pull the rod back to gain line. 10 minutes later spit the lure.Of all those fights I only handled the rod once. I also didn't put out the spread. So perhaps Bullshipper is right. Someone else needs to drive. I'll experiment this weekend with different drag settings in the spread and see how it goes.

[Patudo]

Sounds like you had some great excitement there mate. Don't be too pi$$ed off at losing big fish - big fish are demanding customers and the learning curve inevitably involves some lost fish.

1st hookup - Could have been a straightforward hook pull, but just to check: how much line did you lose? If you get taken down to half spool, your drag will have doubled, purely because it takes more effort to turn the spool the lower the line gets. This increase in drag coupled with all the water drag on the line (I'll bet you found it surprisingly hard to wind the lure ****** can cause a broken line if the fish takes too much line, or a pulled hook. If the fish has taken you down to half spool and is still taking line fast , reduce the drag a couple of inches. But put that drag back up when he stops, or even when he slows down. (We really need to know how much drag you started out with - get that drag scale mate!).

2nd hookup - Sounds like he inhaled the lure, got hooked in the gill rakers and the hook pulled along with a piece of gill. Difficult to see how you could have done better.

3rd hookup - What was the rigging on the Giganticus? Doubles, trebles or ??? Maybe your buddy let him have slack line when he dropped to low gear, or the fish came at the boat, shook his head and out came the hook. Low gear is great for shifting a difficult fish but both the angler and captain have got to watch the rod like a hawk and if you even think he's coming at you, pop it back to high to keep tension on the fish. Many anglers have difficulty switching from low to high. You should be able to do this as easily as shifting your automobile's gears.

4th hookup - I'm surprised you lost this one instead of having that fish wear out both of you over a marathon fight. Probably just unlucky but it must have sucked to lose your 4th big fish that day. Try and check your drags with a scale though, pull line off the rod tip at a moderate walking pace and let us know what results you get.

Most of your fish seemed to pull the hook during the fight rather than miss the strike or pull the hook on the first run, so you're already more than halfway there. The following may help re fighting technique:

- Once the fish is slowed down and you're in the tug of war stage, use short rod pumps to win line back. Raise the rod maybe 6 inches, crank one turn, maybe even a half turn back on the reel and repeat. The more difficult the fish, the shorter the pumps must be. Be smooth and steady at all times. Use low gear on a hard fish, but be prepared to pop the reel back into high if he starts coming up fast. Short pumps are the best way to regain line when the fish is slogging it as pressure is kept on the fish all the time.

- Increase the drag until you start regaining line. You want to avoid the situation where your angler is lifting the rod to pump the fish but line creeps off the spool as he lifts the rod. If that happens you're getting nowhere and the fish is resting. Go up in drag until your angler starts putting line back on the reel. Short rod pumps and the correct boat position also make it easier to regain line.

- Whenever you have the drag up above strike drag, be prepared for the fish to get a second wind and start running fast again. When he starts doing this, reduce the drag back to strike. (That's why I like to only increase drag enough so that the team is winning - if the fish starts running hard against full drag he may pull the hook or break the line. Some fish may require a lot of drag to regain line on, though). Put the boots back to him once he slows down or stops.

- Skipper should keep the line at a 45 degree angle or shallower. Don't get locked into a straight up and down battle with tuna. If this happens to you, drive the boat away from the fish until the line is at 45 degrees. You'll lose a bit of line to start with but will always regain more. Deep fish always lead better this way.

- Watch that rod all the time. Simple rule, if the rod is bent, you've got pressure on the fish. If the rod is straight you've got no pressure on the fish and he can get rid of the hook more easily. If you, the skipper, see the rod start straightening, tell your angler to crank the reel and wind the line tight. Don't hesitate to tighten the line with the boat if necessary. This is one of the many ways that experienced charter skippers make up for greenhorn anglers.

Yeah, big fish fishing can be really frustrating! But when you finally get that big yellowfin to the boat and see him lit up with that unbelievable golden glow along his side and those long yellow sabres reaching all the way back to his tail, it'll be worth all your trouble.

ps. I don't know what hooks you're using right now and don't really think the hooks are to blame for your lost fish (although I still don't like double hooks) but definitely agree with Bullshipper that the "southern & tuna" pattern (Mustad 7691) is a great hook for tuna trolling. Very strong, hooks and holds well. This hook in 9/0 to 12/0 is excellent for big tuna.

[DD]

Great analysis Patudo

[twotems]

Patudo, 1st hookup we didn't lose that much line. He just dropped it. The Giganticus comes with those doubles you hate but they hookup very well. Now that you mention it, the guy really wasn't that experienced and still let the line go slack a bit. So maybe that was it. As for your suggestions, I'll try them all. Sounds like logical advice to me. But I'm still trying to figure out the Dacron to Mono email you sent me. This fishing thing is becoming complicated. Whatever happened to the cane pole and worm?

[strikerthree]

I'm gonna agree with tightline let the fish take the lure and run light on the drag, we usually let him take 100 -200' of line before we set the drag , this way he has gotten that hook hopefully embedded into mouth, and then the fights usually on from there definitely use circle hooks we switched last season to them and haven't looked back

[twotems]

Striker,

I like the sound of the circles. Unfortunately we don't* have any local stores for tackle. We order what we think we need and hope it lasts a long time. (Line, lures, hooks, swivels, sleeves etc etc)

I'll definitely be trying the softer drag idea this weekend.

[sams]

I see that you are runnign a GW Atlantic and you also mentioned a chair. This is a long shot but worth bringin up. Where is the chair located and how lon are the rods you are fishing? Is there any chance that your rods are not long enough and that when the fish settle in deep for the death spirals the line is bending over the rail. If so this would act like a belaying device and bump up the amount of drag teh fish is feeling signifigantly.


Sam

[twotems]

sams - 6/11/2005 10:11 AM I see that you are runnign a GW Atlantic and you also mentioned a chair. This is a long shot but worth bringin up. Where is the chair located and how lon are the rods you are fishing? Is there any chance that your rods are not long enough and that when the fish settle in deep for the death spirals the line is bending over the rail. If so this would act like a belaying device and bump up the amount of drag teh fish is feeling signifigantly. Sam

The chair is located between the main and spare tanks (if you're familiar with the Atlantic). It's far enough back. There is no rail on an Atlantic.

Talking to a friend the other day. He's been losing yft also. One thing we seem to have in common is that the fish seem to be coming off whenever he loses tension in the line. The axiom "tightlines" seems to be the only way to land yft.

[bilfsh]

you guys have made excellent suggestions. I have learned a lot from this thread.
Something else to consider is if the strike drag is set low try using a smaller 8/0 to 10/O Southern Tuna style J hooks with a shorter shank length and thinner overall diameter to ensure better penetration. A 150-200lb YF can excert alot of initial speed and the water drag on 80lb line alone will help set the initial hook penetration especially if the hookset is in the jaw. Make sure the hooks are sharpened just before you set out the lure.