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Old 03-19-2003, 09:04 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

With the recreational permit, I understand you can keep BFT between 42" and 73" but they cannot be sold. With the commercial permit, you can't keep anything under 73" but of course you can sell.
Do I have as much chance of hooking up with a giant as much as a small fish? I'd hate to be limited to the small guys and then catch a giant but not be able to sell it. I'm sure my chances of landing one would be much higher if it was a small one.
Any recommendations?
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:15 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

I took this FAQ off the NMFS site:

Q: May I sell my tunas if I have an HMS Angling category permit?
A: No, if you have an HMS Angling category permit, you may not your catch. You must have a commercial fishing permit if you wish to sell your landings.


If I am reading this correctly it looks like you need a commercial permit in order to sell any tuna.
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:17 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

TC-
the last couple years, beginning in late August, we have had an influx of schoolie BFT in Mass Bay and Cape Cod Bay. They generally run anywhere from 30-125lbs. They are a lot of fun to catch on spinning gear. On the other hand, giant BFT are a whole different ballgame. You can spend lots of time and money with nothing to show while chasing the big boys. So, to answer your question with a question, would you rather fish them for sport or for money? There's nothing wrong either way but you're more likely to hook up with the schoolies and have more fun. JMHO.
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:53 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

Codfisher- That is exactly my point. It would be a shame to catch a huge one and not be able to sell it, you know?

nauticalwheels- Pretty much what I thought. What size do you consider schoolies? From the description on the NMFS site, you can't keep anything under 42". That still sounds pretty big to me. Alot more sushi than I could eat but it would be fun to try....
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:01 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

TC-
I think anything under 100 lbs is a schoolie. The 2 that I caught last year were 60lbs each and about 60 inches in length if memory serves.
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:26 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

Did you eat them? What time of year did you get them and on what type of tackle?
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:40 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

I purchased mine yesterday. You have three options. Check out the general permit. My understanding is that you can sell one with the general permit instead of buying commercial and having to deal with rigging you boat for comm. purposes.
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:16 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

I double checked the site and it doesn't look like there is a general type permit. I don't really understand the third category. Do you? The three categories are defined as:

Atlantic Tunas Permit (Commercial) Description
All owners/operators of vessels (except charter/headboats and recreational vessels) fishing for and/or retaining regulated Atlantic tunas (Atlantic bluefin, yellowfin, skipjack, albacore, and bigeye tunas) in the Atlantic Ocean, including the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean Sea, must obtain an Atlantic tunas permit. Atlantic tunas permits cost $22.00. In the regulations implementing the Fishery Management Plan for Atlantic Tunas, Swordfish, and Sharks, NMFS changed the fishing year for Atlantic tunas to June through May of the following year in order to facilitate timely implementation of international fishery recommendations. Therefore, 2003 Atlantic tunas permits will be valid from the date of issuance through May 31, 2004.

Atlantic HMS Angling Permit (Recreational) Description

All owners/operators of vessels fishing recreationally for and/or retaining regulated Atlantic Highly Migratory Species (Atlantic tunas, sharks, swordfish and billfish) in the Atlantic Ocean, including the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean Sea, must obtain an Atlantic Highly Migratory Species (HMS) permit. Similar to Atlantic tunas permits, 2003 Atlantic HMS permits cost $22.00 and will be valid from the date of issuance through May 31, 2004.

Atlantic HMS Charter/Headboat Permit Description

All owners/operators of charter/headboat vessels fishing for and/or retaining regulated Atlantic Highly Migratory Species (Atlantic tunas, sharks, swordfish and billfish) in the Atlantic Ocean, including the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean Sea, must obtain an Atlantic Highly Migratory Species (HMS) permit. Similar to Atlantic tunas permits, 2003 Atlantic HMS permits cost $22.00 and will be valid from the date of issuance through May 31, 2004.


I also looked at the FAQ about selling fish and it says:
Q: May I sell my tunas if I have an HMS Angling category permit?
A: No, if you have an HMS Angling category permit, you may not your catch. You must have a commercial fishing permit if you wish to sell your landings.
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:25 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

Guys,

Unklike many things in fishing, tuna permits are very strait forward. If you have an angling category permit, you may NOT sell and you are to follow the catch limits that nmfs changes as the season pregresses. If you hold a General Category permit, you are COMMERICAL. You may NOT retain ANY fish under 73"-NONE, and you must abide by effort controls as prescribed by nmfs. Pretty simple. Charter Headboat category is a hybrid. First, you MUST have a 6 pack or better to apply. Second, you are an angling category vessel that day as soon as you retain the first fish thatqualifies as an angling category fish. IF you retaina giant, you are a general boat and are done for the day, except catch and release. Open for scamming? You betcha...


CMP
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:35 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

CMP- Forgive my ignorance as I am new to this. What do you mean by a six pack? Also, under the headboat/charter category- if you catch a giant, can you then sell it?
Thanks for the clarification...
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:43 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

CMP-

You seem to have a good understanding of the regs.

Question....If you are fishing GC you are required to have commercial fishing safety gear. If you are fishing charter catagory are you required to have that gear ? or only when you land the giant ??

How does that conversation go 60 miles east of chatham when the men in the little orange boats visit ?
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Old 03-19-2003, 12:15 PM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

TC-
yes I ate them. I also gave a lot away. We caught them in early to mid-Sept on modified Deadly Dicks and another small blue metal lure that looked like a Crippled Herring (Mann's?). I took the stock treble hooks off and replaced them with single tuna hooks. You need about 8' of fluorocarbon leader as tuna have very good eyesight. The fish were chasing schools of baitfish everywhere and were porpoising and crashing thru the surface.
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Old 03-19-2003, 01:16 PM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

OK, a 6 pack is also known as an OUPV (Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel) and it allows you to carry passengers for hire-up to 6, hence, 6 pack. If you have the C/HB cat permit, you can indeed sell that fish. HOWEVER, when you land the giant, GO HOME. The CG gets antsy if you don't. As far as safety gear is concerned, if you are in the general, the level of gear depends on the size of the boat and whether it's state registered or documented. As I recall, under 30' and state registered, you can have a cat 1 EPIRB (manual deployment) and a non-automatic-release raft. The raft still must be a SOLAS A pack, however. Also, you DO need the appropriate flare kit for your distance offshore and survival suits for all hands, so long as the water is 59 F or colder. Bottom line, but the whole enchilada. If yer east of Chatham and found out of compliance, they will send you home and force you to talk to them every half hour until you are on the beach. I would highly suggest NOT trying to fool them. You have a 30 day "look back" period during which time you can come into compliance, prove it and your fines usually be voided. C/HB is a different animal and, believe it or not, the guidelines are looser-go figure. I'm almost certain that the raft requirement is for a rescue platform. I believe all th eother gear is in play but, for my money, I wouldn't step foot on an offshore boat that DIDN'T have all the gear. Buy the gear guys-you gotta pay to play...

CMP
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Old 03-19-2003, 01:17 PM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

HARPOON,
I have been doing alot of research on this topic over the past few weeks, including speaking with CG personnel. Here is my understanding of the regulations as pertains to your question.
Having a Charter/Headboat permits allows you to fish with a charter under Recreational Angling guidelines. In regards to this, if your sole intent for the day is to fish as a recreational fishermen i.e recreational limits and not sell your catch, then you do not need to meet the requirements for a Commercial Fishing Vessel (although there are some minor reqs. for charter boats).
If on the other hand, you have a Charter/Headboat permit and you do have a charter on board and you do intend to sell your fish. Then the entire boat must be equipped as a Commercial Fishing vessel. You can then keep your commercial limits and sell your catch.
The trick here is determining what is your intent. In some cases it is very easy for a boarding team to determine what the intent is, by the number of fish on board or by asking a passenger what there intent was or expectations where, when they left the dock. Other times it may be up to the discretion of the boarding officer.
It may be fair to assume, that if you have a Capts License, your boat is properly equipped, you have the appropriate permit, and it is obvious that you are not commercially fishing and your are courteous to the officer. He may see it your way.
Any other questions let me know. The Commercial Fishing Vessel Requirements are very tricky to understand. Alot has to do with if you are documented or registered. How many miles offshore, and warm or cold water designations. I have learned alot over the past few weeks.
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Old 03-20-2003, 06:02 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

I'm equipped with a raft, suits and 406 epirb, and offshore flares so that I comply with comm regs.

Incidently the the raft requirement on smaller boats (I forget the size cut, its in the fed regs) is an IBA (inflatable bouyant appparatus) which is CG approved. I think it's just a less expensive raft.

I considered just getting a Charter tuna permit so that I didn't have to buy the gear.... didn't seem prudent that gear saves lives in cold water.

But it would be nice to be able to take a 50-80 lb fish once and a while !

It is amazing that I can take out a charter with NO suits, epirb or raft but a guy in a 22 foot CC needs that stuff to fish BFT.
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Old 03-20-2003, 06:35 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

Don't forget with a General or CH/H permit you can't just go out and catch a giant to sell anyday you want, you can only fish certain days. Most are not weekends.

Just get the rec permit and stop thinking you'll strike it rich with a giant.
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:14 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

Heres an outrageous thought. Get the rec permit and enjoy catching and eating some of the smaller tunas and if by chance you hook into a giant and have the thrill of a lifetime landing it, you could always release it to fight another day.
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Old 03-20-2003, 07:19 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

I believe you can change your status once per year i.e. angler to general or visa versa. That might solve your problem. Mark, isn't this still true?

TB
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Old 03-20-2003, 10:04 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

The cutoff date for changes is usually 15 May, provided they have a "final" rule by then. One year, you could jump around and it caused a HUGE fuster cluck. The rule has been fairly constant and any changes need to occur before the season actually begins...

CMP
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Old 03-20-2003, 11:08 AM
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Default Tuna Permits- Recreational or Commercial?

CMP - you mention that you must have 6-Pack or better to have the Charter/Headboat permit. I have heard this before, but I don't see it in the regs. Where does it say that. Also, what do you have to do to get the 6-Pack. Thanks.
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