The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum


Alltackle.com
Go Back   The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > SportFishing and Charters Forum

Notices

Random Quote: If a man makes a statement and there is no woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-09-2010, 08:00 AM
  #1    
Admirals Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Default Snapper Closure

Hello everyone,I'm new to this forum and just wanted to let everyone know what's up with NOAA,the scientist have convinced Noaa that ALL SNAPPERS ARE OVER FISHED AND therefore there trying to CLOSE THE FISHERY for 30 yrs.Please read AMENDMENT 17A and 17B.This closure is from North Carolina down the East Coast of Fla. to the Dry Tortgus off Key West.We have started a petition and if you agree please start one in your area..Noaa is trying to pass this un-noticed by the public.This will devastate the marine industry..thank you for reading this...........tight lines
floridafishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 11:52 AM
  #2    
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Gloucester, NC (near Beaufort)
Posts: 8
Default

Proposed Interim Rule for South Atlantic Red Snapper
Frequently Asked Questions
July 2009
What is the issue with the South Atlantic red snapper fishery?
 A new stock assessment was completed for red snapper through the Southeast Data,
Assessment and Review (SEDAR) stock assessment program in 2008. The
assessment (SEDAR 15) found that the South Atlantic red snapper stock is overfished
and currently undergoing overfishing. http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/.
What is being done to address overfishing in the South Atlantic red snapper fishery?
 The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council (Council) received notification
from NOAA Fisheries Service, in a letter dated July 8, 2008, that the South Atlantic
red snapper stock is overfished and undergoing overfishing.
 The Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (Magnuson-
Stevens Act) requires the Council to prepare a plan amendment or proposed
regulations to end overfishing within one year of notification that a stock is
undergoing overfishing.
 Upon notification, the Council began developing Amendment 17 to the Snapper-
Grouper Fishery Management Plan to address long-term management measures to
end overfishing of red snapper. Amendment 17 will not be implemented until early
2010 so immediate management measures are needed to reduce overfishing of red
snapper.
 The Council requested that NOAA Fisheries Service use interim measures to reduce
overfishing of red snapper while Amendment 17 can be further developed.
What is in the proposed interim rule to reduce overfishing of red snapper?
 The proposed rule would implement a prohibition of recreational and commercial
harvest of red snapper for 180 days in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) off of
Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. This closure may be extended
for an additional 186 days.
When will the interim rule be implemented?
 The Council voted during its March 2009 meeting to request that NOAA Fisheries
Service draft and implement an interim rule (short-term measures) to help address
overfishing by closing the commercial and recreational red snapper fisheries for 180
days.
 The NOAA Fisheries Service has published a proposed rule in the Federal Register.
If approved, the final rule could be implemented in September or October 2009.
How long would an interim rule be in effect?
 The interim rule would be effective for 180 days with the possibility of an extension
for 186 days.
Will the public be able to comment on an interim rule to close the red snapper fishery?
 Yes, the proposed interim rule has a 30 day comment period during which the public
will have the opportunity to comment. Comments can be provided at
www.regulations.gov, Keyword: Red Snapper.
Would the closure for red snapper be applied to state waters as well?
 If approved by the Secretary, the interim rule would only apply to federal waters off
the coasts of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and the east coast of Florida
(ranging from 3 to 200 miles offshore of each state), unless each state also chooses to
implement compatible regulations for state waters. The Council would request these
states adopt compatible regulations. However, the provisions specified in the interim
rule would also apply to a person on board a vessel for which a federal commercial or
for-hire permit for the South Atlantic snapper-grouper fishery has been issued,
regardless of where the fish are harvested or possessed (e.g. state or federal waters).
Why does the fishery need to be closed? Can’t the bag limit simply be reduced from 2
fish to 1 fish, or the size limit be increased from 20 inches for both the recreational and
commercial fisheries?
 Changing the bag and size limits would not achieve the necessary reductions in
harvest because of the discard mortality that would continue to occur.
 Amendment 17 contains management alternatives including time and area closures
that would reduce the expected future discard mortality rate of red snapper.
Given the current economic conditions, can the Council wait another year or so to put
management measures in place?
 The requirement to end overfishing in the Magnuson-Stevens Act does not allow for
a delay. The Council received notification on July 8, 2008, that overfishing is
occurring in the red snapper fishery and the Council has one year to develop a plan to
end overfishing. The Magnuson-Stevens Act specifies that overfishing must be
ended while minimizing, to the greatest extent practicable, negative economic and
social impacts.
I’m seeing more red snapper than I have in the past 10 years. If the stock is in such bad
shape, why are we catching more fish?
 Many fishermen have testified during public hearings and scoping meetings that they
are catching more red snapper in recent years, especially for those fishing off the
coast of Georgia and northeast Florida. A spike in 2007 and 2008 recreational
landings documents that fishermen are seeing more fish now than in previous years.
The spike in landings appears to be the result of good recruitment of the stock in
recent year.
 Despite good recruitment, the age structure of the population remains truncated (there
are not enough older fish). Red snapper live to 54 years of age, but in 2007 a small
percentage of the population was estimated as being age 10 or older.
We’re also seeing more of the larger fish than we have in the past few years. Aren’t
these large fish a sign that the population is healthy?
 For red snapper, larger fish don’t always represent older fish. There is a great deal of
variability in the size of red snapper at age. For example, the average size of a 10
year old red snapper is around 32 inches, but 10 year old fish range in size from 27 to
40 inches.
 Red Snapper are being caught before they become old enough to reach their peak
reproductive levels. Although the 20 inch size limit allows some fish to spawn before
they become vulnerable to harvest, these younger, mostly first-time spawners are less
productive than the older and heavier fish. A 10-year old red snapper may have
reached 90 – 95% of its maximum length but only 80% of its potential maximum
weight.
Where did the data used in the SEDAR stock assessment come from?
 Data used for the assessment consist of records of commercial catches provided by
dealer and fishermen reports since the 1940s, headboat fishery catch records from the
Southeast Headboat Survey since 1972, and recreational catch records from the
Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistics Survey (MRFSS) since 1981. Also included
are U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service recreational fisheries surveys of the 1960s and
1970s. Data through 2006 were included in the assessment.
 Landings and effort information are provided by dealer and fishermen reports and
surveys. Information on catch lengths and ages is provided by sampling programs
that support the catch statistics programs. Information on biological characteristics,
such as age, growth, and reproduction, is provided by various research studies.
 All of the data used in the assessment are described in the SEDAR 15 red snapper
stock assessment report available on the SEDAR Web site at:
http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/. The SEDAR Web site also provides extensive
supporting documentation that describes data collection programs and research
findings.
Chris Elkins is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 02-09-2010, 12:30 PM
  #3    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 247
Default it's more than snapper

There is a whole lot more to the issue than just snapper. They are currently considering closing all bottom fishing from 98-300 ft as well as major regulations in regard to zoning. You gotta love the new administration...

Feds plan ocean zoning, replacing 'open seas'
By Richard Gaines
Staff Writer

February 08, 2010 05:50 am

Well below the low-water line for news, the White House is moving to create a system for managing the space — surface and depth — of federal waters that amounts to ocean zoning and is known as "marine spatial planning."
If adopted by Congress and imposed, the new approach would force radical alteration of the historic American understanding of the "open seas" — by purpose, they would no longer be open and instead zoned for pre- and proscribed uses.
Gov. Deval Patrick has a state task force at work drafting a parallel zoning program for the three mile ribbon of state water inside the 200 mile federal water frame.
A simple model cited by the White House task force to exemplify the nature of marine spacial planning is how the main shipping channel through the Stellwagen Bank National Marine Sanctuary was shifted slightly to the south about four years ago to reduce collisions with whales.
The approach would impose a super bureaucracy over the many already operating with authority over aspects of federal waters — "a leviathan of a regulatory structure," in the phrase of David Frulla and Shaun Gehan, Washington lawyers who write a column for National Fisherman.
A near synonym for "marine spatial planning," is "ecosystem based management," a phase often used by Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, to describe how she believes the fisheries should be managed.
The vehicle for the first phase of the process of extending the concept of land use planning, essentially zoning, to the 200 ocean-mile "exclusive economic zone," established by the 1976 Magnuson Act, and the Great Lakes, is what is called the "Interim Framework for Effective Coastal and Marine Spacial Planning."
The product of a six-month study by an Interagency Task Force of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, the interim report was filed Dec. 14. The comment period closes on Friday. Comments can be filed on line.
"It envisages nine new regional planning councils, comprised of high federal, state and tribal officials," wrote Frulla and Gehan, who represent the Fisheries Survival Fund, the wideflung organization of scallop interests based in Fairhaven. These councils would be "empowered to make binding ... decisions...."
In their March column, Frulla and Gehan wonder whether there now exists authority for the federal government to create an entirely new regulatory structure for planning and directing marine uses, at least not the way its "buzzword-laden jargon" suggests.
Lubchenco for so long has been an advocate of "ecosystem based management," she could be considered its political den mistress if not mother. Indeed, she wrote the forward to the book, "Ecosystem based management for the Oceans," a compendium of "expert" thinking edited by two academic scientists in Lubchenco's orbit, Brown University's Heather Leslie and Karen McLeod, director of COMPASS, which is an acronym for the organization Lubchenco created at Oregon State University for bringing together scientists and journalists.
The book explains that ecosystem based management differs from current approaches that "usually focus on a single species or type of activity. Instead, ecosystem based management plans and strategies incorporate the cumulative impacts of multiple activities on entire ecosystems."
Marine spatial planning "would use an ecosystem-based management approach that addresses cumulative effects to ensure the protection, integrity, maintenance, resilience, and restoration of ocean, coastal and Great Lakes ecosystems, while promoting multiple sustainable uses," the task force wrote.
The framework for marine spatial planning or ocean zoning grows from the work of the Pew Oceans Commission and the U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy in which Lubchenco was a major influence.
Frulla and Gehan found "ominous" suggestions that prior to the issuance of final plans — zoning maps — of the ocean, the planning councils would evaluate "alternative future use scenarios and tradeoffs.
"In a battle of tradeoffs as between oil and mineral extraction, transportation, recreational use, national security, aquaculture, renewable-energy development and most significantly 'sustained, ecosystem functions and services,'" they wrote, "it seems unlikely that commercial fishermen will walk away from the table with greater fishing opportunities."
Richard Gaines can be reached at 978-283-7000, x3464, or via e-mail at
rgaines@gloucestertimes.com
Copyright © 1999-2010 cnhi, inc.
fatcat14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 03:31 PM
  #4    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 108
Default

All of the information in SEDAR is CRAP! We dive often off of the GA coast & there is no shortage of RS here. There is no shortage of Gags. The current leadership at NOAA & NMFS have an agenda to follow.
Catch shares & spatial planning as well as ocean acidification are all just a means to an end. The end of recreational fishing!
Tell me why ecreational fishermen are only allowed 1 amberjack per person per day while commercial interests are allowed 1000 lbs per trip? Tell me why Vermillion Snapper are closed to recs while commercial interests are currently using them to fill the gap left by the RS closure? Unlimited trip limit.
NOAA needs to be dis-banded or reduced to predicting the weather.
Fisheries management needs to return to people that do not accept "deals".
__________________
Support the Fishing Rights Alliance
http://www.thefra.org/
brailediver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 02:51 PM
  #5    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: savannah
Posts: 208
Default

I still want to see some peer reviewed studies that say NOAA is wrong.
pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 08:12 AM
  #6    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagan View Post
I still want to see some peer reviewed studies that say NOAA is wrong.
Do you have any friends? You keep asking for this peer reviewed nonsense like you are someone that can make a difference in this debacle. None of this BS makes any sense and there is no justification for the closures. You just simply can not make a decision this big with such negative implications based on flawed data, that they admit is flawed! How do you see this being justifiable? You have inaccurate data and to make a huge decision based off of that is plain wrong and stupid. You don't need peer reviewed material to realize this!!! Wake up!!
Fish-on-21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 11:05 AM
  #7    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 108
Default

Pagans purpose is to start an argument. He has no interest in any cause other than to make your blood boil.
If you allow him to do that, he is happy.
If you ignore him, he keeps trying.
Ignore him/her/it.
__________________
Support the Fishing Rights Alliance
http://www.thefra.org/
brailediver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 11:25 AM
  #8    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 393
Default

I figured out the problem. Definitely PEW material.

PAGAN: A person not adhering to any major or recognized religion, especially a heathen or non-Christian (often derogatory); An uncivilized or unsocialized person; Especially an unruly, badly educated child; A follower of a pantheistic or nature-worshipping religion.

Pagan, I'm sorry, I won't miss you.
mnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 07:01 AM
  #9    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: savannah
Posts: 208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnelson View Post
Pagan, I'm sorry, I won't miss you.
halfwitnelson, sure you will.
pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 07:02 AM
  #10    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: savannah
Posts: 208
Default

So still no real data, just "stories" mixed with lies and insults. yeah, ya'll will go far with this. *snicker*
pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 02:09 PM
  #11    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagan View Post
So still no real data, just "stories" mixed with lies and insults. yeah, ya'll will go far with this. *snicker*

PAGAN: A person not adhering to any major or recognized religion, especially a heathen or non-Christian (often derogatory); An uncivilized or unsocialized person; Especially an unruly, badly educated child; A follower of a pantheistic or nature-worshipping religion.
mnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 02:46 PM
  #12    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: savannah
Posts: 208
Default

The contortions that halfwitnelson et al will go to to avoid rules they don't want to follow are quite amusing.

The "I don't care about facts, I want to do what I want to do and to hell with the facts..." whine comes through quite clearly.

Science doesn't care what you claim is true, it cares how you claim it to be true.

Show me, scientifically, that the snapper/grouper complexes in question aren't in any danger of following the cod fishery and you'll have gained many converts.

Aw, jeez, now we're back to that stuffy "scientific methodology" thing which seems to be way beyond most of you.
pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 02:56 PM
  #13    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pensacola Beach, FL
Posts: 300
Default

you mean peer review that the global warming guys at East Anglia?
See It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 03:00 PM
  #14    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagan View Post
The contortions that halfwitnelson et al will go to to avoid rules they don't want to follow are quite amusing.

The "I don't care about facts, I want to do what I want to do and to hell with the facts..." whine comes through quite clearly.

Science doesn't care what you claim is true, it cares how you claim it to be true.

Show me, scientifically, that the snapper/grouper complexes in question aren't in any danger of following the cod fishery and you'll have gained many converts.

Aw, jeez, now we're back to that stuffy "scientific methodology" thing which seems to be way beyond most of you.

PAGAN: A person not adhering to any major or recognized religion, especially a heathen or non-Christian (often derogatory); An uncivilized or unsocialized person; Especially an unruly, badly educated child; A follower of a pantheistic or nature-worshipping religion.
mnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2010, 05:58 AM
  #15    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FL USA
Posts: 1,455
Default

http://petition.deep-blue-sea.org
__________________
MrPat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2010, 07:24 PM
  #16    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Raleigh MHC OuterBanks
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagan View Post
Show me, scientifically, that the snapper/grouper complexes in question aren't in any danger of following the cod fishery and you'll have gained many converts.
Cod were depleated by highly efficient draggers with an over-capitalized international fleet, not hook & line.
__________________
Life is like a jar of jalapeños. What you do today, might burn your arse tomorrow
BaitWaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2010, 05:23 AM
  #17    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaitWaster View Post
Cod were depleated by highly efficient draggers with an over-capitalized international fleet, not hook & line.

Don't bother trying to explain, he doesn't know the difference between a net and a rod/reel. It doesn't surprise me, see definition above.
mnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2010, 05:39 AM
  #18    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 4,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pagan View Post
So still no real data, just "stories" mixed with lies and insults. yeah, ya'll will go far with this. *snicker*
Congress told NOAA to fix their junk science. They didn't. NOAA is being sued and will lose. It's amusing to watch you rally behind science that has been identified by Congress as flawed. You have even read where NOAA has said that their science is not very good. Yet you rally behind it presumably because it is the only "peer reviewed" science that NOAA has subscribed to. You make me giggle.
__________________
2008 Pioneer Cape Island 18/Yamaha 115 2S
1999 Custom Craft 14/Mercury 25 2S
Plastic Navy: Hobie Revo 13, Heritage Redfish 10, Emotion Mojo 12, Field and Stream SOT 12
Paul Barnard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2010, 07:22 AM
  #19    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Congress told NOAA to fix their junk science. They didn't. NOAA is being sued and will lose. It's amusing to watch you rally behind science that has been identified by Congress as flawed. You have even read where NOAA has said that their science is not very good. Yet you rally behind it presumably because it is the only "peer reviewed" science that NOAA has subscribed to. You make me giggle.
Very well put! It's been proven that the data is flawed. Ethically, it is impossible to base a decision this big with so many unintended consequences off of data that is inaccurate and provided with little merit.
Fish-on-21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2010, 02:22 PM
  #20    
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: savannah
Posts: 208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish-on-21 View Post
Very well put! It's been proven that the data is flawed. Ethically, it is impossible to base a decision this big with so many unintended consequences off of data that is inaccurate and provided with little merit.
Surely if the data is so flawed you can point me to the peer reviewed studies that show that NOAA is wrong.

Surely you can.

Can't you?
pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 



©2009 TheHullTruth.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0