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Old 01-17-2009, 12:20 AM   #1
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Default paying for premium bait on charters?

bait such as goggle eyes are often not included in the cost of the charter but are said to often be the choice baits and help to ensure success.

are goggle eyes tuff to catch?
do gamefish really prefer them over other baits?

how many guys have opted for the goggle eyes or similar premium baits and felt it made a significant difference?
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:03 AM   #2
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Default RE: paying for premium bait on charters?

Quote:
bc22 - 1/17/2009 12:20 AM

bait such as goggle eyes are often not included in the cost of the charter but are said to often be the choice baits and help to ensure success.

are goggle eyes tuff to catch?
do gamefish really prefer them over other baits?

how many guys have opted for the goggle eyes or similar premium baits and felt it made a significant difference?

are goggle eyes tuff to catch? YES!!!!!!!!

do gamefish really prefer them over other baits? YES!!!!!!

how many guys have opted for the goggle eyes or similar premium baits and felt it made a significant difference? IF YOU ARE PAYING UPWARDS OF $1000.00 FOR A CHARTER WHAT IS ANOTHER $120.00 FOR A DOZEN GOGS????




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Old 01-17-2009, 08:22 PM   #3
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Default RE: paying for premium bait on charters?

Novo's right.

1. Goggle Eyes (aka Round Eye Scads) are difficult to catch. Why? Because they generally come in shallow and school at only at night -- that's when you can target them. When the sun comes up, they move to deep water and hide. You want to spend your time before a charter from Midnight to 6 am catching bait or pay someone to do it for you so you can sleep and be rested for your trip?

2. Goggle Eyes are lively and "hardy" on the bait hook, which attacts gamefish. The hardy part means they aren't fragile like Threadfin Herring and other easy to catch bait, and will stay alive a while on your hook.

Are Gog's essential to a successful charter in SE Florida? No, but again, if you're spending that much money on the trip, I'd go with it. The Captain should catch some other baits too, just in case Gog's aren't on the menu for some reason.

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Old 01-18-2009, 02:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

Generally speaking, are these premium baits for offshore use or for S.FL gulf use too?
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

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bc22 - 1/18/2009 2:02 AM

Generally speaking, are these premium baits for offshore use or for S.FL gulf use too?
Please be more specific... where are you planning to fish? when do you plan on going? what species are you targeting? if you are going to the gulf looking for groupers, you need pinfish.... if you are in S. FL looking for sails, you need gogs....
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:04 AM   #6
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

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novomarine - 1/18/2009 7:36 AM

Quote:
bc22 - 1/18/2009 2:02 AM

Generally speaking, are these premium baits for offshore use or for S.FL gulf use too?
Please be more specific... where are you planning to fish? when do you plan on going? what species are you targeting? if you are going to the gulf looking for groupers, you need pinfish.... if you are in S. FL looking for sails, you need gogs....
Plan to fish Islamorada this mid Feb on both gulf side and oceanside. may try for sails if they are still around and present a good possibility of hooking up.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

i thought they had bait boats..

sort of like domino's...
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

Quote:
ctoolman - 1/19/2009 7:35 AM

i thought they had bait boats..

sort of like domino's...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

Quote:
bc22 - 1/19/2009 3:04 AM

Plan to fish Islamorada this mid Feb on both gulf side and oceanside. may try for sails if they are still around and present a good possibility of hooking up.
Gogs won't do anything for you on the Gulf side of Islamorada; that's backcountry fishing where shrimp, mullet, pinfish, and artificials work well. Gogs would probably be great pitch baits in the blue but I'm not sure a standby pitch bait is worth the premium cost. Most Keys sailfishermen prefer slow-trolling ballyhoo over kite fishing since their reef areas a lot more concentrated and get crowded. Ballyhoo is also a natural food for Keys sails. Off Miami gogs are worth the premium but in the Keys might be a different story. The sails will still be around in February, in fact that's one of the best offshore months for sails and just about everything else.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

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Auburn1 - 1/20/2009 2:04 AM

Quote:
bc22 - 1/19/2009 3:04 AM

Plan to fish Islamorada this mid Feb on both gulf side and oceanside. may try for sails if they are still around and present a good possibility of hooking up.
Gogs won't do anything for you on the Gulf side of Islamorada; that's backcountry fishing where shrimp, mullet, pinfish, and artificials work well. Gogs would probably be great pitch baits in the blue but I'm not sure a standby pitch bait is worth the premium cost. Most Keys sailfishermen prefer slow-trolling ballyhoo over kite fishing since their reef areas a lot more concentrated and get crowded. Ballyhoo is also a natural food for Keys sails. Off Miami gogs are worth the premium but in the Keys might be a different story. The sails will still be around in February, in fact that's one of the best offshore months for sails and just about everything else.
thanks auburn,
i'll discuss with the charter captain prior to the trip what he is feeling and recommends for success. i hope the sails and offshore weather cooperate when i get there as i would love to hook up on a sail (would be my first, would be a lot of firsts as this would be my first right side ocean trip).
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:16 AM   #11
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Default RE: paying for premium bait on charters?

One final comment on this thread...

Just like a six year old child, fish can be picky eaters. I can remember sitting down for Thanksgiving Dining my wife made with all the fixings and our child refusing to eat and wanting a hot dog! Guess what, I cooked a hot dog...and she ate it.

There are times when gamefish fixate on a specific bait and ignore ANYTHING else. Why who knows? They just do. Sometimes sailfish will focus on Sardines, sometimes on Goggles, sometimes on ballyhoo; and if you don't have what they want -- you're out of luck.

I suspect the Capt is trying to cover all the bases -- just in case. By agreeing to buy Goggle Eyes, which require an effort to catch, you give yourself some extra amunition -- if the normal Keys baits don't tempt the gamefish you want. For the opportunity, I'd do it. Yeah it's extra $$, but maybe you can work out with the capt that if you don't use them, he'll buy them back at 1/2 price. Goggle Eyes are hardy and will keep in a bait pen for a while if they've been handled properly and fed.

PB
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Old 01-21-2009, 06:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

A sailfish method that I tried once on an Islamorada charter was sight casting over the reefs. From the high towers in the early morning they can actually be seen feeding over the sand areas between deeper (25-30') patch reefs. We caught one doing that using a live pilchard. Apparently this method is becoming very popular...would be a great method using gogs since those reefs are where the bait boats catch them.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:25 PM   #13
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Default RE: paying for premium bait on charters?

In the Northeast when on overnight chunking trips, having live bait can be an advantage. There are times when the live bait is not used as hook baits. They are scooped over the side where they swim back and forth flashing in the underwater lights in tight little schools. You know the tuna are feeding on them since the little bright schools get smaller and smaller. We use peanut bunker and find them the shiniest. Far better than mullet, bluefish, or, worst of all, minnows. Minnows head for the keel and stay clustered there until you move off after daybreak.

The flashing live bait pulls the tuna in closer and increase the hook-up rate.

However, your charter crew can't waste time netting live bait. They are getting your trip prepared. So buying live bait from people who make their living at it works better. Having a couple of hundred peanuts on board is worth a couple of bucks.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

It's BS, find a different boat to fish if they don't plan on giving you all the effort they can muster. The premium crews will make sure that you have the best baits for their particular fishery.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

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tiereta - 1/24/2009 12:00 PM

It's BS, find a different boat to fish if they don't plan on giving you all the effort they can muster. The premium crews will make sure that you have the best baits for their particular fishery.
You've obviously never fished in South FL so stay out of this as you have no clue.

That being said: in the keys ballyhoo have always held a higher profile in the sailfish game than gigs. Get to Miami and gig sare important, get to Ft Lauderdale and they are almost mandatory. Talk to the captain and find out how he intendends to fish. If slow trolling live baits is his deal ballyhoo should do the trick. If you are fishing with a captain that does a lot of kite fishing gogs could very well be worth the $$$.

sam
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

Quote:
sams - 1/25/2009 8:04 PM

Quote:
tiereta - 1/24/2009 12:00 PM

It's BS, find a different boat to fish if they don't plan on giving you all the effort they can muster. The premium crews will make sure that you have the best baits for their particular fishery.
You've obviously never fished in South FL so stay out of this as you have no clue.

That being said: in the keys ballyhoo have always held a higher profile in the sailfish game than gigs. Get to Miami and gig sare important, get to Ft Lauderdale and they are almost mandatory. Talk to the captain and find out how he intendends to fish. If slow trolling live baits is his deal ballyhoo should do the trick. If you are fishing with a captain that does a lot of kite fishing gogs could very well be worth the $$$.

sam
Sam, If you are booking trips then you obviously fit into the nonpremium catagory, what kind of nickle and dime operation are you involved with? Get your act together and do whats right for the clients. By the way, if all you've fished is South Florida then YOU obviously have no clue.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

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IF YOU ARE PAYING UPWARDS OF $1000.00 FOR A CHARTER WHAT IS ANOTHER $120.00 FOR A DOZEN GOGS????
In short it's robbery.

$10 for a baitfish?

That's a scam and nothing more.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

have you ever been out to catch gogs? in tournaments guys can pay upwards of $200 a dozen for them. its certainly not a scam on the charter boats end. they hand the bait boat cash right in front of the customer. so its not like they(the charter crew) are taking a cut. that is the going price for gogs down here in winter time.

They usually are caught at night. sailfish season is the winter. its cold and rough (well in the eyes of a floridian) and sometimes requires a very long to go to catch them. the charter crews dont do that. heck even the big tournament guys normally buy bait (or hire some on the team dedicated to bait fishing). you can spend part of your charter time trying to catch other live baits, or cough up the cash.

i will say i fished in mexico on a charter and the gogs and runners were included in the charter price, however the price of bait was much cheaper and the charter was much more expensive than a south florida charter. so i am sure the cost of the bait was already factored into the charter price.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

Quote:
Sam Salmon - 2/3/2009 9:44 PM

Quote:
IF YOU ARE PAYING UPWARDS OF $1000.00 FOR A CHARTER WHAT IS ANOTHER $120.00 FOR A DOZEN GOGS????
In short it's robbery.

$10 for a baitfish?

That's a scam and nothing more.
Apparently Sam doesn't like to read the entire thread... Oh well....

PB
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: paying for premium bait on charters?

I lived and fished Miami and the Keys for 33 years. I still come down and sailfish with friends and an occasional charter a couple times a year. Like other's have said, the further North you go, the more important Gogs become. In the Keys, slow trolled ballyhoo are king, but more and more Capts in the area are finding kite fishing more productive. Ever since the Miami boys came to town and whoooped up on them by kite fishing in tournaments using kites. A ballyhoo is not a good kite bait, gog's are excellent. That said, pilchards are also a good kite bait, as are speedos. Tom (Prop Blast) said it best, comparing a spread to Thanksgiving dinner. Sometimes fish want a certain bait and won't eat anything else. If you don't have that bait, you are SOL.

Paying for premium bait's such as gogs is not uncommon. It saves you the hassle of leaving the dock at 2:00 AM to catch them. It basically depends on your budget if you want to shell out the extra $$. The charter crew does not get a cut of this money, it all goes to the bait boats which fish all night, sometimes in rough weather, sometimes traveling a great distance to find the bait, (I've seen West Palm bait boats in Key Largo) penning and feeding them so they have a supply when catching is even tougher, so they have a supply to sell if and when a boat decides to purchase them.

Paying for baits is not an uncommon occurrence, I've paid for baits in Cabo. Do you think the long range boats out of So Cal stop and pick up "scoops" of bait on their way out for free. If not an additional fee, the cost is certainly figured and added into the price of the charter. The price of chartering has risen to the extent that a lot of people cannot afford it. By giving you the option to purchase "premium" baits, keeps the cost down but will handicap you if you need this bait and opt not to spend the cash.
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