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Random Quote: You touched the leader its a catch! (as I cry from the bridge)
No one discounts Shimano topshelf gear like trevala rods and butterfly....you have to buy from dealers like myself who charge the lowest shimano allows and we sell a ton of this product doing this...
Support your local shop, buy enough from them and over time you may get some discounts. I get 10-20% off everthing I buy now because I treat them well, so they treat me well....
__________________ 2006 Sea Pro 196 / Yam 150 4-Stroke
I dont consider it price fixing, thats just how it is in this industry and many others. MAP, minimum advertised pricing. Gives everyone a fair shake instead of 1 guy selling discount and making 5% profit, not like this industry is a 50-60% profit margin industry...its more like 20-30%.
Of course it's price fixing. And not every brand does it.
That's not to say dealers don't deserve to make an honest profit, they do, but fixed pricing is price fixing any way you look at it. Otherwise, some dealer would be willing to sell at cost if they thought they could make the margin back on another piece of the deal.
We used to have something called "fair trade". It kept prices artificially high and all but eliminated competition. That doesn't exist anymore.
Take your biz to a mfg that doesn't price fix or refuse to sell to certain dealers because of pricing policies (penn tried that and learned better). You can still buy from john/tackledirect if that works for you.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
Penn didnt try and learn better...they use MAP pricing along with every major tackle mfger in the business. I cant think of a big name that everyone buys and uses that doesnt adhere to MAP pricing. Why do you think when you google a reel or rod and then 10-15 dealers popup with the same price?
This isnt anything new. Myself and dozens of other dealers sign contracts with every vendor and we all adhere to "MAP" pricing. I can think of a bunch of other industries that use this method as well, electronics is one that comes to mind quickly.
Gerg: Trust me Id love to be able to give product away and make 1-5% and have 10 trillian customers but within a month every other dealer would complain to my vendors and I wouldnt be getting product any more for underselling.
Yeah all of these things are out of me (the dealers) hands. This isnt something that just started happening , its just what it has been and will be.
Whenever there are items that can be discounted trust me we pass those savings along to our customers, and items that arent price protected we always strive to be lower than the pack. Just look at our penn senator pricing for one, those arent MAP priced and compare how low we are.
We are never one to overprice or gouge anything.
I just cant wait to start fishing here in cooooold new jersey!
"Just look at our penn senator pricing for one, those arent MAP priced and compare how low we are."
This is a good example of what everyone is talking about. You have very good pricing. However, I can do better on the wide reels at other stores.
For example, one of your fellow NJ tackle shops with an online presence sells the 113hlw for $109 and 114hlw for $147 with $10.75 s&h. You are asking $140 for the 113hlw and $180 for the 114hlw with $15 s&h.
As a business I understand it would be great to compete on customer service alone. As a consumer I love open competition. It means I shop for both price and customer service. There are some stores I would never do business with again no matter how low their price. In this case I am a satisfied customer of both you and the other shop, so for these items I'd rather spend $35 less per reel and order from them.
I personally am not bothered by the "add it to the cart to see how much it is" method of MAP. I can compare the prices of the items at my favorite stores quickly. I do not like the apparent "you will not sell it for less than X on the internet" rules prevalent in the high end Penn and Shimano rods and reels.
The more choices the better for the consumer and the harder it makes it for the stores to get their business.
"Just look at our penn senator pricing for one, those arent MAP priced and compare how low we are."
This is a good example of what everyone is talking about. You have very good pricing. However, I can do better on the wide reels at other stores.
For example, one of your fellow NJ tackle shops with an online presence sells the 113hlw for $109 and 114hlw for $147 with $10.75 s&h. You are asking $140 for the 113hlw and $180 for the 114hlw with $15 s&h.
Those reels are MAP Priced........the other regular senators are not.. After just googling those 2 models myself the majority of dealers have the 113hlw for 150 and and 114hlw for 210.
MAP for the 113HLW is $149.99 and the 114HLW is 199.99, so technically we are discounting the 114HLW by $10.
That shop selling the 114HLW is actually losing 7$ per reel at that cost, and they are making $1 on the 113HLW but hey whatever floats your boat.
I tend to look for companies when I am shopping online with lowest prices and great service. If I dont like the look of the website and theres another website that looks really professional and they cost a bit more I will buy from them. Basically in the fishing industry we have to wow customers with our personal service and offer incentives like free shipping to get the deal instead of a basement outfit selling at 5$ above cost to get their business. And without competition America wouldnt be the same
Look, I never said it was the tackle shops that are to blame, although they are complicit. John, I am not blaming you for shimano's practice, but I don't have to buy shimano and I won't at this point (though I have in the past).
If the prices are fixed and vendors are penalized for selling below an artificial floor, that is price fixing. Just because everyone does it doesn't make it right. Just because it's legal, doesn't make it just.
You do what you need to in order to run a profitable business, and consumers can do what they see fit to change bad biz practice.
Oh, and there are lots of examples of vendors selling well below MAP. What they do is have you toss something in the cart, and the price is suddenly lower than MAP. The key is in the "A". If they don't advertise it, they can sell for less. Clearly shimano doesn't allow that. Clearly they will lose business over it.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
For a commie pinko leftist you sure seem to like the free market. All joking aside, I agree with you, this policy is price fixing and IMO, should be outlawed. I know in my industry you can never tell a customer what he must sell the product for.
I suppose the good thing about keeping prices artificially high is that you can get more competition to eventually drive prices down. Someday a Chinese or Korean manufacturer will learn to make high quality reels.
__________________ . . . . . . BALLYHOO PIN RIGS For SALE HERE 10 pack:
John, that someday is here. Those ridiculed brands will gain more and more market share and one day, shimano and penn will wonder what happened.
People laughed at toyota once as well. The early models were real junk. The rusted before they broke, and they broke quickly. But nobody says that today.
The fact is that there are very well built and durable off-brand offshore reels that are every bit as good as the shimano and penn aluminum reels, and absolutely blow away the graphite tld's. Well, except for the handle on the new tld 50lrsa's - that is still the best handle I own.
Most of what you hear about those "junk" brands came from years past. Take the new ones apart and you will see they are well designed, easy to service, and durable. Add to that they don't price-fix, and someday they will be serious competition.
I fully understand why shimano does it, and why dealers support it. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
I know that the big Tackle companies out there have there price but us little tackle guys that sell to the retailers have been getting hit the hardest. I see some of my dealers selling at more than 200% of my whole sale prices lately. Saw one of my 2 ounce jigs at a retail shop for $9.00 when I only get $3.00 wholesale. The other shops only do 100% mark up and move my product all the time, why the greed??
I'll buy from John at Tackle Direct, thank you. They usually offer a very competitive price, (often the lowest I can find on the internet or at competing area shops), great selection, and service. God forbid guys like Tackle Direct can't survive, and we all end up having to buy our reels at Wal-Mart
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LISA MARIE
28 SOUTHPORT W/TWIN F250 YAMAHAS
LIL' LISA MARIE
17 FT WHALER W/90HP F90 YAMAHA
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