Circles designed for heavy drags?

[Bullshipper]

We pulled 2 circles hooks ( a 7/0 super matu and a 12/0 mustad ) using 28-35 lbs of drag on cows after fights of 20 and 35 minutes in Puerto Vallarta last Saturday.

The different hook sizes were selected for a gogleeye and a bullet tuna bait, and in both cases, more drag would have helped to gain back line.

The super matu is a heavy hook.

Does any circle come with a wider shank with more surface area to keep them from ripping flesh with heavy drags?

[Patudo]

Unsure the type Mustad you are using but the model 39960ST was used by Carolinas fishermen chunking giant bluefins during the glory days of the Hattaras fishery. That was with unlimited or 130 lb chair tackle using considerably more drag than 35 lb. Maybe the longline style hooks could be worth a try as they have a thick shank but those are not true circle shapes.

[Finnseeker]

Bullshipper - 11/13/2007 8:19 AM

We pulled 2 circles hooks ( a 7/0 super matu and a 12/0 mustad ) using 28-35 lbs of drag on cows after fights of 20 and 35 minutes in Puerto Vallarta last Saturday.

The different hook sizes were selected for a gogleeye and a bullet tuna bait, and in both cases, more drag would have helped to gain back line.

The super matu is a heavy hook.

Does any circle come with a wider shank with more surface area to keep them from ripping flesh with heavy drags?

Bull, I was just on the radio station Rod and Reel Radio with Stan Vanderberg doing a show for him and we talked about this and he said to me that he too has pulled hooks on many many a yellowfin tuna with circle hooks because of the plate and will never use circle hooks on big tuna again. He did a 10 day on the Intrepid and told me that the only way not to loose your big tuna is to go with J hooks.
Ive known Stan for many years and I value his expertise as I too have pulled hooks in PV on the YFT trying to haul one in quick.
Good luck

[Bullshipper]

Patudo - 11/13/2007 11:34 AM

Unsure the type Mustad you are using but the model 39960ST was used by Carolinas fishermen chunking giant bluefins during the glory days of the Hattaras fishery. That was with unlimited or 130 lb chair tackle using considerably more drag than 35 lb. Maybe the longline style hooks could be worth a try as they have a thick shank but those are not true circle shapes.

Actually, I am using the mustad 16/0 and 20/0's long liners now. But the Owner Mutu is even heaver, so I like them, especially in the smaller sizes, where the gauge goes down.

Pictures of both

http://www.tackletogo.com/circlehooks.html

I also believe the J's will catch and kill more fish as they will get hung up deeper in the throat where there is more vital organ and meat to grab onto, but we hook a lot of billfish out there so it would be a step back for me to go back to J's imo. And I think they fight harder when hooked in the corner of their mouth with circles too.

I have previously caught a bunch with circles on +40 lbs of drag before, so perhaps we were just unlucky that day. But these fish seemed to be solidly hooked after long runs swallowing the baits and the pressure was increased gradually during the fight.

Oh well, we would have released them in any case as we were loaded with dorado fillets, but it sure would have been nice to take some pictures. I understand my buddies from the east coast rarely see yft's over 80 lbs, so this was the point of the trip.

Just wondering if it might be a good idea to build up the shank bend with something like shrink tubing to make it wider and softer.

[Patudo]

If the hook size diagram from Mustad is accurate (see below) the 12/0 circle hook is actually a relatively small hook. If you had good results with it previously it was probably just bad luck on that particular fish. No hook delivers 100% performance all the time. Maybe you hooked a tuna so big the hook could not get fully around his jaw bone ...

http://www.mustad.no/catalog/mikpublish/img/2951.gif

The true long line hooks (see below) are really thick for their size but they are not a real circle hook

http://www.castawaylakes.com/images/...itunahooks.jpg

I would have thought a circle hook would be preferred when you are forced to fish big yft with a light leader as the circle setting in the jaw would prevent the tuna teeth from contacting light leader?

[Bullshipper]

Patudo - 11/13/2007 12:24 PM

If the hook size diagram from Mustad is accurate (see below) the 12/0 circle hook is actually a relatively small hook. If you had good results with it previously it was probably just bad luck on that particular fish. No hook delivers 100% performance all the time. Maybe you hooked a tuna so big the hook could not get fully around his jaw bone ...

http://www.mustad.no/catalog/mikpublish/img/2951.gif

The true long line hooks (see below) are really thick for their size but they are not a real circle hook

http://www.castawaylakes.com/images/...itunahooks.jpg

I would have thought a circle hook would be preferred when you are forced to fish big yft with a light leader as the circle setting in the jaw would prevent the tuna teeth from contacting light leader?

Thanks for the pics Patudo.

Our captain was using 150-250 lb flouro leaders so I think that was plenty heavy for tuna types, and ifs a billfish saws them in half all the better for a faster release.

After thinking this out some more, I remembered that Gus's fish degourged the skippy with the 12/0, so the bait may have acted like a shoe horn to guide it out.

Big Bait and hooks
In the future I think we should bridle the skippy close to the tip of their nose so that the hook can pull away from the bait for a easier cleaner set or use weaker bridle material to keep the hook close to the eyes when tying the material though the thick boney eye sockets. The shanks on the 12/0-20/0's should be plenty heavy to prevent rip out on the tuna in most cases.

Small bait and small hooks
When using small baits like the hand sized google eyes where a small hook is needed, going to a J may be the only way to grab more meat and bone to prevent the pull out.

Hopefully the odd billfish hooked on the smaller J's can still be cut off in the water or dehooked if they come as a bycatch.

[gtrfred]

bullshipper,

when i fished in PV we pulled some hooks on yellowfin on the circles. same kind of deal. fish on for 30 minutes bumped up the drag to go chase down a bigger fish and pulled the hooks 30 ft from the boat.

the only thing that comes to mind is when we sailfish and use gogs with circle hooks, we always bridle the baits. we also try leave a gap between the circle and the bait, especially when flying them from the kite. this allows the hook to turn and set properly while the bait is attached and in the mouth of the fish.

i think you are correct in sticking with the circle hooks. we have all pulled hooks with Js. so not surprising that it wouldnt happen now and again with circles.

[REDWEISER]

Has anyone tried a VMC- 8382 - 10/0 - 3X? .... they're strong.

[lemaymiami]

I think the hooks aren't the problem.... You're always trying to balance how long the fish is at risk when hooked against using so much pressure that you pull the hook during the fight (not to mention fish without lips....). In recent years with much better drags and the wide use of heavy braid we're all capable of really hammering a hooked fish.... resulting in a lot more pulled hooks. I had to make a point of using a bit lighter drag with braid because we were losing so many fish with the stuff. My heavy tackle days are long behind me, but the basics don't change, whether you're using light line inshore or more serious gear offshore.

that's my 2 cents worth.

[captkenr]

After reading through this thread this morning I went out to my shop and snelled a Mustad 39960 12/0 to 300# mono. I tied the mono around a low limb in an Oak then hung a 5 gallon bucket on the hook. Next I began loading the bucket with 25# bags of buckshot. I figured 6 bags was enough. The hook easily held 150# of lead plus the bucket.

In the real world, the hook point sometimes hits bone and the pull angle on the hook can cause it to open up under extreme strain.

As Capt. Bob mentioned above, braids and heavy drags can cause problems, especially when the fish makes a sudden surge. When a fish is very close, the drag tight and with non-stretch lines, bad things happen. Hooks rip out, rods explode and sometimes anglers get hurt or loose rods.

A 50 or more yard mono top shot is a great shock absorber.

I've had some serious bruises when fishing with jigging rods with no top shot. A friend of mine has lost 2 Shimano jiging rods when he got yanked into the corner and had to loose the rod or go over the side. After loosing the second rod, he quit fishing barefooted.

[Bullshipper]

We are drifting off point.

What we come down to on tuna is the surface area of the bend of the shank that is pulling against the hole the hook produced.

More shank area or a deeper hook set with more flesh and bone = more resistance to tearing out with higher drags.