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I am rigging up a bunch of wide range lures and big pushers. I am relatively new to rigging and was wondering what your normal setup was. Do you use double hook or single hook rigs? Do you use anti chafing tube, heat shrink, or tape? Are there any good sites out there that show how to rig big game lures? I googled every combination of this that I could and couldn't find much info. Any pages with diagrams or pictures would be great. Thanks for any input.
I use single hook rigs. I have not found that the hookup percentage is any better with double rigs, plus the fact that double hook rigs can hold a fishes mouth shut if hooked top and bottom. If you break him off it will almost certainly kill him. Don't like unattached hooks flailing around in the cockpit either. For wide ranges I use 200 lb leader, about 5 spacer beads, and a 10/0 7731 Mustad hook. I use anti chafe tube at the hook and the loop.
We fish out of Mobile also. I am currently using 300lb flouro. Do you think I am over doing it? I made up several lures last night about 75% were single hooks. I just hope I am not doing anything wrong.
I use 300 also, it's not overkill. Well, maybe overkill, but shouldn't affect your fishing with most lures. I have a few halcos that do not swim as well with 300 flouro so I use wire for them.
What exactly are you targeting?? We always use the lightest leaders Mono or Flouro we can get by with. I can see 300 for Blue Marlin, for everything else including Tuna we rig with 25-30ft of 80-120 mono or flouro.Single hooks using the Mustad 7732 series hooks ...Mark
there is no sense in using 300lb flourocarbon for rigging marlin lures. spend the money on something more useful.. now slow trolling for tuna with live bait 60 to 100 lb flourocarbon
Thanks,
I already read both of those articles and found them very informative. I was basically looking for visual affirmation that my rigs are up to par. I have several older rigs that have several twists and loops at the hooks, both under the heat shrink. I was not sure if this was preference or common practice. Question.... Do you leave the hook that far back (as shown in the Pakula single hook setup) on your lures? I was under the impression that they needed to be hidden in the skirt.
It doesn't make sense to me not to rig for blues, even though you will catch other fish like dorado, tuna, wahoo, etc. You can catch little fish on big leaders and hooks, but big fish like blues are tough to land on little leaders and hooks. My rule of thumb is to rig for the biggest fish I can realistically expect to catch where I'm fishing - not the average. That goes for tackle to. I want to be ready when Mr. Big shows up. Fishing where there are blues and breaking one off because I didn't have the right gear to handle him and dooming the fish most of the time is near-criminal as far as I'm concerned, and so I do things the way that I do. If you don't, that's okay too. I only decide what goes on onboard my boat, not anyone else's.
Rigging is a huge, diverse subject with lots of people doing things lots of different ways. As far as I can see, the majority of the top marlin guys have gone over to single hooks with most preferring what we call "The Tail Gunner". Here, the hook is stiff rigged upright and as the name implies, at the rear of the lure. You can hide the lure in the skirt, but most don't worry about the hook sticking out behind the skirt as long as IGFA regs aren't exceeded (see IGFA lure regs if you are concerned with that sort of thing.) A lot of studies and logbook comparisons have been made by both serious anglers themselves and some biologists that indicate a higher hookup and landing ratio with the singles than those dangerous doubles, which I don't even allow on my boat. A picture one of our CaboTiger lures tail gunner rigged is below.
I am partial to what we call "The Scorpion Rig", where the hook is both stiff rigged and then the rigging is actually pulled into the head of the lure, so that the hook is upright and just behind the head. It is shown in the second picture. There is a long story on why this is how I rig my marlin lures, the short version being that our hookup and landing ratio (both are important) is vastly higher with the Scorpion fished within the system that our experiments led us to. I do not discuss the system itself anywhere other than in my New Modern Trolling book. It took many years and literally thousands of marlin for us to come up with it and it is for that reason that I keep it utterly within the book. That may tick some people off, but they won't be the ones who spent the years coming up with the system. And even there, some don't buy into the system and don't try it, so it's better if I keep it "in house", so to speak.
I have also included a shot of one of the Moldcraft Wide Ranges that I think you are rigging with the a Scorpion rig about to be pulled into the head. Moldcrafts, like Black Bart, Legend and some other top companies' lures have recessed holes in the backs of their heads that swages and chafing gear slide into and lock in place.
That's it for openers. I hope that this helps some.
I see that the usual box for posting photos has disappeared for some reason, so I will be unable to post the photos I just talked about. I'll try to find out what's up with that and post them later if I can.
__________________ Author of Pro's Guide to Catching Dorado on SpreaderBars, Spreaderbar Bible, Wahoo Bible, Bigeye Tuna Troller's Bible, Best Marlin Lure & more.
This is how we do the hooks. length and size is based on lure size
We crimp the line through the loop, that has a clear tubing chaffing proctocter and then we tape it up will colored electrical tape. I super glue down the tape edge so the water doesn't peel it back.
I like the tip of the hook just inside the skirt, helps with hook ups and IGFA regulations.
Capt Fred host your pics some where and then paste the link inbetween: [img][/img]
I look forward to seeing how you do it, I may have to rerig all my stuff after I see it.
That is one mighty fine stiff rig for a tailgunner stiff rig. Saves me from posting my version. The front loop is nice and small so that it and the swage that connects to the lure leader will lock into the backs of lures that are ported for this, like Black Barts and Roddy Hays' Legends and they pull into most Softheads too. Same thing on my Cabo Tigers and such. This way the hook can be "locked into" the up position that most pros prefer, but it will pull out and the lure head can slide up the leader when the fish jumps, which helps keep the hook in the fish.
As noted in my picture-less post, I am a proponent of the Scorpion rig. Let's see if I can get this photo dog to hunt...
What Speed Is everyone trolling this type of setup? Or do you base your speed on how the lure is running? Is there a speed you start at? We troll meat 90% of the time Which we run between 5-7kts but I am Interested idn running some of the larger lure only baits....Thanks Mark
During the Cape Fear tournament last weekend, we trolled hardware and some meat around 6-8 knots. For the most part we ran a combination of 5-6 lures and 1-3 baits or vice versus. It didnt help us as we didnt catch any bills this time but that pattern has produced for us before.
For fun fishing, I fish similar to Offshore, mostly trolling baits and maybe a wahoo lure or a cedar plug in the mix, at least for the offshore pelagics.
Great pics on the rigging of the lures.
__________________ ALB
1985 BW Montauk
1996 Evinrude 90
Give me oysters and beer for dinner everyday of the year and I'll feel fine - Jimmy Buffett
Speed is an interesting and much misunderstood subject. I divide speed up into four categories...slow - 4-6 knots, standard - 7-9 knots, fast - 10-14, and high speed - 18-20 k's.
I further break my trolling speeds down to match what I am doing. High speed trolling is one of the most valuable things that I ever learned to do. In a place like Cabo, you are basically traveling over potential fishy water from the moment you clear the bay on to your offshore target. Plus, while one target on the sat chart might look like the most likely area for fish, it is an easy matter to alter the direct course to that area in order to run through and check secondary temp breaks and some of the better canyon edges and banks. "Checking" would involve watching water temps and eyeballing for birds or bait, or even big fish signs, like tailing marlin. And the high speed lures also did very effective "checking" and often caught us bonus fish on the way to our daily honey holes and in the case of a slow day, on the way back.
Fast trolling speeds and sometimes high speed during very calm conditions were our most common hunting speeds while we were searching a likely area for the big concentration of bait that would cause us to slow down a bit to a usually more comfortable and fuel efficient 7-9 knots.
We slowed down and ran in the slow speed range when we were on fish and the bite was on. We also ran slower if the fish were on tiny baits and we were trolling the very small spreaderbars that those fish go wild over.
Specifically fishing for blue marlin called for 10-12 knot speeds for me.
Learning how to go faster than normal trolling speeds until the fish slow you down, or a bit slower than your cruising speed to high speeds when you are running across potentially good water on your way to what the charts tell you could be the Mother Lode can lead to a lot of extra fish for the box.
As far as lures are concerned, I picked ones that ran well at whatever speed I chose at that time of day. Our spreaderbars are a constant and ran well at all of the speeds mentioned, including high speed and we had calm sea conditions. Kind of the reverse of how many do it, I didn't alter my trolling speeds to get the best action out of a given lure...my trolling speeds were intended to hunt down, attract, or catch fish and the lures that I ran had to swim well at those speeds or they were replaced with ones that did.
Some pretty much "all speed" lures would include the legendary Moldcraft Senior Wide Range, several of Roddy Hays' Legend Lures, Andromeda being my favorite for blues, and my own line of trolling lures that are specifically designed for all speed fishing.
That's my basics as far as speed is concerned. Go fast when you are going to or hunting the fish and then run your lures at the right speeds to turn them on and you are pretty much covering the bases when it comes to artifical lures. If you only have one basic lure trolling speed, it might be a good idea to start varying it along the lines described here. I think that you will catch more fish if you do.
As an aside, I designed and we make a different kind of lure that I call a "'HooHat" that allows us to run ballyhoos for a long time and at higher than usual speeds without blowing them out. The counterbalance weight that you see protruding out the front can be removed for slow trolling 'hoos. The "Hat" performs like a popper/jet this way. It can also be run with the weight for higher speeds and to keep it down and swimming. My crew came up with a way of modifying Hats to mimic the smaller needlefish that Cabo gamefish are constantly after. See below...
The first two shots are Hats with and without the counterbalance.
On the next two shots, the Hat is slid over the leader and stops at either the sinker of the swage, making a nice, long, needlefish or gar and maybe even ribbonfish looking bait. This one was murder for us when the gamefish got after the needles down south.
What Speed Is everyone trolling this type of setup? Or do you base your speed on how the lure is running? Is there a speed you start at? We troll meat 90% of the time Which we run between 5-7kts but I am Interested idn running some of the larger lure only baits....Thanks Mark
I like meat too, and let me say I am the farthest from an expert. I do like to read, fish, and watch what others do and see what works.
I do not mix meat and lures, expect for on a Way back like I run a lure like an American Express or Cedar plug while pull ballyhoo. Otherwise, we either fish all lures lures or all meat. With lures you have to frame your spread to entice a strike, meat is the fish feeding. We like 8-9 knots and adjust accodingly based on the seas.
** Capt Fred.... those rigs are interesting....I have chew on that for a while. I really like your information and thanks for sharing.
Thanks guys for the information!! You can never get or give enough information. We do extremely well with the Tuna, Dolphin, and Wahoo but I would like to expand more into the billfish. We have a awsome white and blue season in the late summer here in NC and would like to be more serious about the Billfishing.Keep the information coming.....Thanks Again!! Mark
Rigging offshore lures... 
