The politics of oxygen and air, life, death and disease opportunist in summer livewells

[bjak]

It’s still a fact that both oxygen and air are colorless, odorless and tasteless gases and both make clear gas bubbles in livewell water. Oxygen is used physiologically for crisis intervention and life support and air; well, air is just air, it’s ubiquitous. You’ve heard the salesman’s routine many times, the more air bubbles you see in your livewell the more oxygen your bait and gamefish are getting and that’s plenty. You see the same concept every day in fishing magazine articles.

You do not see myths and stories like this in aquatic scientific literature or aquaculture text books.

Ask any salesman that sell mechanical aerators, bait tanks and boats with built-in livewell that have aerators and they will tell you their boat livewell aerator will provide all the oxygen your bait or a limit of tournament fish will ever need, summer time, wintertime, anytime. If your livewell water gets hot and low on dissolved O2, well add ice or an extra water pump. Pump more water through the box.

Many of us have heard and continue to hear that same old line of salesmanship and read the same old stuff about live bait care and tournament fish care in fishing magazines, we’ve all been there and done that in the summer, and every summer the kill is still high and unacceptable.

If you fish in Canada aerators and water pumps work great in cold water, even in the summer. Livewell kills and delayed tournament mortality in cold Canadian waters are unheard of even in their summer C&R tournaments. There are no livewell and bait tank low O2 problems in cold water anytime of the year.

But many of us live baiter’s and C&R tournament fishers fish south of Canada and we do have major live bait problems down along the East Coast to Key West and points south, within the central states, Gulf Coast from Key West to Cancun, from the lower Pacific coast down to southern Chile. There are really big livewell mortality problems between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn around the globe, major livewell kills related to poorly oxygenated livewell water.

Most live baiters (freshwater and saltwater), tournament bass fishermen and tournament bonefish fishermen have serious livewell kills and serious delayed tournament fish kills every summer while our water pumps and aerators are humming away all day long looking good. Delayed tournament catch and release summer mortality is well documented scientifically. That lactic acid caused by livewell suffocation is a killer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_fermentation

Question 1: Have you ever wondered why all federal, state and private fish hatcheries, public aquariums and tropical fish transporters from far away Pacific Islands, Amazonia and even local bait shops that sell shiners always oxygenate their transport water with pure compressed welding oxygen or pure liquid oxygen in livewells and in plastic “shiner bags?”

Ask and pro and they tell you 100% of the time that they never use any mechanical aerators or water pumps in vain attempts to oxygenate their transport water because their job depends on ability, knowledge and equipment to deliver live fish that are healthy. They fully intend to prevent lactic acidosis by suffocation during the transport.

Question 2: Have you ever wondered why most live bait and tournament fishermen transport live bait and tournament gamefish in livewells and bait tanks a few hours and many animals die in the livewell and the summer survival is so poor and delayed summer mortality is highest then for catch and released tournament gamefish?

Fishermen are not professional fish transporters, but they try and often fail every summer. Dead and dieing fish in their livewells do no affect their income although the dead and dieing animals may cause some inconvenience and aggravation every summer. Most live baiters and tournament C&R fishermen have heard these words “lactic acidosis” but how many fishermen really know what this is or what causes this or how to correct this serious fish health problem?

Most fishermen depends on information the salesman tells him, the fisherman want to believe and really count on opinions of that boat salesman or that bait tank salesmen telling them how to transport and take care of live bait and tournament gamefish, how to haul that live bait or tournament gamefish all day in the livewell.

They say all you got to do to keep the bait or a tournament limit of gamefish alive is turn on your livewell aerators, turn on you bait tank water pumps, run them continuously or save your battery and electricity and incorporate a pump timer, add this super chemical or that secret livewell additive/chemical, add more ice, chill out the fish or bait and always use the liveliest baits first because they work better than the red-nose baits. Do all this and your live bait or tournament gamefish will get all the oxygen they need in the summer.

I would seriously question and challenge that old myth.

Any thoughts about livewell water quality affecting live fish/bait health during summer transports?

[MI Ben]

Oo oo let me guess first. O2 salesman?

[Bullshipper]

What a load of crap.

Air has an Oxygen content of 21% 02 or 210,000 ppm and saltwater will only absorb less than 10 ppm when it is 100% saturuated. If the ambient has 21,000 times as much 02 as I need, why do I have to buy canned 02 from you?

When I splash water into water it will come up to 90% of its theoritecal value, and even super inefficient breathers like salmon that live under cold waterfalls do not require more than 50% saturation.

Why is it that when you catch your bait, it will not survive in the same cirrculating water without the addition of oxygen?

Why is it that I can can keep my bait alive in 90+ degree salt water without an O2 system?

How is it that bait seiners trap and carry delicate sardines and anchovies 100's of miles, then store them in in net pens in large marina areas for up to another week or two, then place them into long range fishing boats that travel 1600 miles into tropical areas, and these guys just use pumps?

[Ludicrous]

What happens if you accidentally switch your kite balloon helium tank with your livewell oxygen tank? Will your baits squeak the same as before except in a really high pitch? And where do I put my nitrous oxide bottle now?

Ludicrous - 2/12/2007 3:47 PM

[marker150]

Is that a brain with out Oxygen?

[BIGnUGLY]

Thanks guys, you eased my urge to light him up. I read a couple of pages of his spam in the past and was suprised Wiley didn't gaff him then.

[eddy2419]

bjak,

Rather than answer my questions posted on the previous "saga" you start a new thread. Any public debate in my opion is moot when one side or the other has an ulterior motive they do not disclose. Just in case you missed them here they are again.

1. Exactly why you have such a great interest in this subject?

2. Why you have mentioned oxychum repeatedly in your posts?

3. Why you supported fisherboy in principle but not product.

4. Do you live in Texas?

Is that easy enough? 1,2,3,4.

[endoman]

I want them to die.

[ESfishdoc]

Makes me think of the professional football players on the sidelines with their oxygen masks...... doesn't do anything to help them but it makes them think they are getting something and it gives somebody a job keeping them supplied with oxygen tanks....... unless there is something in those tanks we don't know about....

Maybe if we make little masks for all those fishies they can live on land longer.....?

Too many more important things to worry about....

[Nestor]

please let this one (thread) die in less than 300 posts this time......

[bjak]

MI Ben, Oo oo no, I don’t make it. Mother Nature makes it and Air Liquide, Air Products, Linde and a few other companies make it (better) purerer. But, I do like a steady supply of it and would hate to go without it for 1.5 – 2.0 minutes.

Bullshipper,
You are right! Yes, air contains 21% O2 and 79% nitrogen at sea level, it’s the same O2/N2 ratio at the top of Mt. Everest. You don’t have to buy canned O2 from anyone, aeration and water pumps work just fine for most fishermen. Some fishermen just want to better control their livewell water quality and have healthier live baitfish in the box.

You are right, a good aerator can reach 90% dissolved oxygen saturation in saltwater or freshwater @ 80 F with NO BAIT and NO FISH in your livewell consuming it, breathing it, depleting the O2 supply. Add a handful of baits (in 25 gallons of livewell water) and the DO drops to 80% saturation at the same water temperature. Add a double handful of live bait and the DO drops to 70% saturation.

Professional fish transporters (people that haul live fish for a living) NEVER allow their DO saturation to fall below 100% saturation regardless of the amount of fish they are transporting; whether they haul a handful of livebait or 500 lbs. of live bait, they always maintain DO saturation between 100% -150% DO saturation continuously whether the transport takes 30 minutes or 72 hours or more. They are experts at managing hauling water quality and keeping live fish healthy during transport, that’s their job; they make their living hauling healthy live fish. Live bait cost more than dead bait. Great live bait attracts more strikes than lethargic red-nose baits. You know the routine.

“Salmon that live under cold waterfalls do not require more than 50% saturation.” That may be great for this cold water salmon living in that steady state environment with no stress, but things are very different for highly stressed juvenile warm water species that are captured traumatically and then transported all day in over-crowded livewells in 86 F water @ 50% DO saturation. That’s why when you catch your bait and overcrowd your livewell (like fishermen like to do), live bait health degrades as the hours of transport drag on all day and all night without supplemental oxygen administration.

”Why is it that I can can keep my bait alive in 90+ degree salt water without an O2 system?” Maybe a miracle? Luck? A fish story? Professional live fish transporters don’t do that.

With no bait or fish in the livewell, actually hot 90 F ocean water reaches 100% DO saturation about 4.3 ppm, chill that saltwater down 10 F with ice to 80 F and 100% DO saturations happens about 4.7 ppm. Chilling that livewell water 10 F increased the DO saturation threshold 0.4 ppm, that’s good. The crunch comes when that nice cool bait is hooked up and tossed back into that 90 F water, that’s bad and sad. Many live baiters have been there and done that. Talk about cool live bait getting sloppy quick, ruining that bait in seconds, that’s the terrible result of acute temperature shock and it’s caused by the fisherman.

”How is it that bait seiners trap and carry delicate sardines and anchovies 100's of miles, then store them in in net pens in large marina areas for up to another week or two, then place them into long range fishing boats that travel 1600 miles into tropical areas, and these guys just use pumps?” That’s a good live bait story; you know how those fish stories get started. Bet not a single one of them had red-nose either. Professional live fish transporters don’t do that anywhere in the world that I know of. That’s certainly not the best live fish transport care possible in this day and time although that was standard fish transport care in the 1950’s and early 1960’s.

Ludicrous, that’s a great question. “What happens if you accidentally switch your kite balloon helium tank with your livewell oxygen tank?” They suffocate, get red-nose and die. And another great question. “Will your baits squeak the same as before except in a really high pitch?” Maybe… maybe not. Do you use recreational nitrous oxide and play around breathing helium? If you do play with nitrous oxide or helium, be sure to add supplemental oxygen like anesthesiologist do or you could become hypoxic quickly, turn a blue-black color and suffocate right there on the spot. And never, ever strap that mask on your face and turn on the gas alone.
Is that an image of your skull? Yikes, would you look at that!

Capt. Squiddly, I like that head shot too, that belongs in the medical mutation museum in Washington, DC.

Marker 150, That looks more like a brain that’s been seriously hyperventilated; it shrunk up and has torn away from the skull… like a pea in a 5 gallon bucket. Maybe it’s the skull of ancient ape-like character, pre Homo erectus or earlier?

BIGnUGLY, Atta-boy, thanks for stopping by. Now that you got that “urge” out and off your chest, hope you’re feeling better and please come back and join in the conversation. This thread is about live bait care, fish physiology, what happens after traumatic capture and various methods of managing livewell water quality during all day transport in summer water. Fish hatcheries and fishery biologist do not transport and haul live fish like the average live baiter does. The difference is major.

Managing minimal safe transport water quality and keep live fish healthy while in captivity is standard operating procedures for biologist working for fish hatcheries and fish farmers across the country.

Thanks fellows for taking a moment of your day and sharing with everyone… I like that skull image with the pea brain, big eye sockets and giant humanoid teeth. That’s special.

Eddie2419, you’re so dramatic! I fish with live bait occasionally and fish tournament. I fish in Catch and release and also catch and kill tournaments. I strive to keep my fish alive fishing kill tournaments because a fish weighs more alive than he weighs dead and ices down. I take advantage of every tournament fishing edge possible when I’m fishing tournaments for money. In order to keep the fish alive in the livewell all day it’s worth dollars to keep the fish alive, provide fish hatchery quality care for the fish.

Yes, I do support fisherboys use of supplemental pure O2, that same pure oxygen is what the hatchery pros use and that’s why they are so different (more successful) than the average live baiter hauling bait or mature gamefish.

Oxychum is an interesting fish attracting concept and novel application of pure oxygen. I read up on the tactic and it looks good to me. The application is limited to a few weeks in the summer and a few months late in the winter in the cold country when lakes ice over. Chumming fish with a oxygen (better than highly aerated water around waterfalls or underwater springs for attracting bait fish and game fish) is unrelated related to livewell water quality and live bait transport that I can see. I bet chumming fish with O2 down in Mexico where the water is really hot and low in oxygen in the summer would be outstanding. Imagine bubbling welding O2 about 15 ft. deep all night and fishing around those bubbles just before dawn.

Different O2 delivery systems have advantages, limitations and disadvantages. Some are no better than aerators because of engineering limitations. Some are great and have minimal engineering limitations. Some may be pure snake oil and slick advertisement to get into your pocketbook.

Fisherboys product may do the job he wants done just fine, he’ll know without a doubt this July/August. I’m anxious to hear how it works for him. He’s not afraid to think out of the box and speak what he’s learned on this public forum and that’s a huge plus for him. I don’t think he’s the average live baiter, nor is he happy with lethargic red-nosed sloppy bait in the summer. I believe that’s why he chose to switch from aerators and water pumps to pure oxygen.

Endoman, those baits really look great in that image! No overstocking, no red-nose, no red-bellies or sides, no scales knocked off that I can see. What’s the bait/water ratio in that image? Looks like maybe 1 baitfish to 4-5 gallons of water?

ESfishdoc, “Makes me think of the professional football players on the sidelines with their oxygen masks…” Why do you think they do that? I heard a football player say breathing oxygen supercharges him in the 4th quarter when he’s really tired and nearly exhausted. I like those baits that live about 15 seconds before the strike, that’s great. Thanks for stopping by fishdoc.

“Maybe if we make little masks for all those fishies they can live on land longer.....?” At the fish hatcheries, that about sums it up doc. You hit the bulls eye.

Nestor, is anybody making you keep track of this thread? If it’s too upsetting, don’t look at it because it could give you the nightmares about summertime bait blues. Especially when you realize there are really better ways of taking care of live bait and tournament fish than old ways our Dad’s told us that don’t work very well in the summer.

[Bullshipper]

Here come my answers below in CAPITAL LETTERS

bjak - 2/12/2007 9:49 PM

Bullshipper,
You are right! Yes, air contains 21% O2 and 79% nitrogen at sea level, it’s the same O2/N2 ratio at the top of Mt. Everest. You don’t have to buy canned O2 from anyone, aeration and water pumps work just fine for most fishermen. Some fishermen just want to better control their livewell water quality and have healthier live baitfish in the box.

TRYING TO SELL AIR IS WORSE THAN THAN SELLING ICE TO ESQUIMOS- DO YOU WRITE WAR PROPOGANDA FOR BUSH?

You are right, a good aerator can reach 90% dissolved oxygen saturation in saltwater or freshwater @ 80 F with NO BAIT and NO FISH in your livewell consuming it, breathing it, depleting the O2 supply. Add a handful of baits (in 25 gallons of livewell water) and the DO drops to 80% saturation at the same water temperature. Add a double handful of live bait and the DO drops to 70% saturation.

THIS IS UTTER BULLSHIP- AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT PASS 1/2 LB OF BAIT PER 7.45 GALLONS OF WATER THERE WILL BE NO DROP IN DISSOLVE OXGEN AS THE AREATION ON NEW WATER AND REAREATION OF EXISTING WATER PASSING UNDER THE SAME NOZZLES EXCEEDS THE BOD REQUIREMNT OF THE FISH BY A FACTOR OF 2.

Professional fish transporters (people that haul live fish for a living) NEVER allow their DO saturation to fall below 100% saturation regardless of the amount of fish they are transporting; whether they haul a handful of livebait or 500 lbs. of live bait, they always maintain DO saturation between 100% -150% DO saturation continuously whether the transport takes 30 minutes or 72 hours or more. They are experts at managing hauling water quality and keeping live fish healthy during transport, that’s their job; they make their living hauling healthy live fish. Live bait cost more than dead bait. Great live bait attracts more strikes than lethargic red-nose baits. You know the routine.

AGAIN WRONG. FISH TRANSPORTER CARRY OXYGEN AS A SAFETY MEASURE IN CASE THEIR PUMPS OR ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS GIVE OUT WHILE IN TRANSPORT. FISH ARE TAKEN OFF FEED 2 DAYS PRIOR TO TRANSPORT TO KEEP FECAL MATTER LOW IN RECIRCULATED WATER STYSTEMS.

“Salmon that live under cold waterfalls do not require more than 50% saturation.” That may be great for this cold water salmon living in that steady state environment with no stress, but things are very different for highly stressed juvenile warm water species that are captured traumatically and then transported all day in over-crowded livewells in 86 F water @ 50% DO saturation. That’s why when you catch your bait and overcrowd your livewell (like fishermen like to do), live bait health degrades as the hours of transport drag on all day and all night without supplemental oxygen administration.

AGAIN THIS IS BS AGAIN AS SALMON ARE TRYING TO JUMP UP WATER FALLS, FIGHT WITH OTHER SUITORS, AND HGO OFF FEED AS SOON AS THEY HIT FRESHWATER, SOMETIMES SWIMING 2500 LILES UPSTEAM WITHOUT FOOD.

”Why is it that I can can keep my bait alive in 90+ degree salt water without an O2 system?” Maybe a miracle? Luck? A fish story? Professional live fish transporters don’t do that.

WHEN I GO FISHING, I AM NOT LOADING A TRUCK. LOOK AT AUGUST-OCTOBER SST WATER TEMPERATURES FOR MANZANILLO MEXICO CHUMP IF YOU THINK THEY DON'T EXCEED 90 DEGRRES AT THE HEIGHT OF TUNA AND MARLIN SEASON.

With no bait or fish in the livewell, actually hot 90 F ocean water reaches 100% DO saturation about 4.3 ppm, chill that saltwater down 10 F with ice to 80 F and 100% DO saturations happens about 4.7 ppm. Chilling that livewell water 10 F increased the DO saturation threshold 0.4 ppm, that’s good. The crunch comes when that nice cool bait is hooked up and tossed back into that 90 F water, that’s bad and sad. Many live baiters have been there and done that. Talk about cool live bait getting sloppy quick, ruining that bait in seconds, that’s the terrible result of acute temperature shock and it’s caused by the fisherman.

DO YOU SELL CHILLERS TOO? A FISH CAN ONLY TAKE A 1 DEGREE c RISE IN TEMPERATURE PER HOUR, AND 2 DEGREE CHANGE WHEN GOING LOWER. I HAVE ACCLIMATED MILLIONS OF FISH GOING BOTH WAYS. THE POINT IS THAT THE FISH IS BEING CHASED AROUND IN THIS WATER WHEN YOU CATCH HIM AND WILL NOT DIE IN YOUR LIVEWELL IF IT IS PUMPING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF WATER IN YOUR LIVEWELL. NO 02 NEEDED.

”How is it that bait seiners trap and carry delicate sardines and anchovies 100's of miles, then store them in in net pens in large marina areas for up to another week or two, then place them into long range fishing boats that travel 1600 miles into tropical areas, and these guys just use pumps?” That’s a good live bait story; you know how those fish stories get started. Bet not a single one of them had red-nose either. Professional live fish transporters don’t do that anywhere in the world that I know of. That’s certainly not the best live fish transport care possible in this day and time although that was standard fish transport care in the 1950’s and early 1960’s.

REALLY?. I GUESS YOU BETTER TELL THE SIENERS THAT GO UP TO 1000 MILES DOWN THE BAJA TO CATCH BAIT, THEN TRAVEL UP TO A 1000 MILES BACK TO STORE THEIR BAIT IN SAN DIEGO, DANA POINT, SAN PEDRO, VENTURA, ET AL THAT SEEL THEIR LIVE BAIT STORED IN NET PENS WITH NO PUMPS OR 02 TO LONG RANG BOATS THAT TRAVEL 1400 MILES TO THE CLIPPERTON AND HURRICANE BANKS, AND RETURN WITH LIVE BAIT THAT THEY HAVEN'T A CLUE HOW TO TO THIS AFTER 60 YEARS IN BUSINESS.

Managing minimal safe transport water quality and keep live fish healthy while in captivity is standard operating procedures for biologist working for fish hatcheries and fish farmers across the country.

I WAS THE LARGEST OPERATOR IN THE NORTHWEST. WE HAD COMPANIES THAT TRIED OXYGEN SUPPLEMENTS BACK IN THE 70'S. THIS HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.

In order to keep the fish alive in the livewell all day it’s worth dollars to keep the fish alive, provide fish hatchery quality care for the fish.

RIGHT, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?

AGAIN, THANKS FOR THE SPAM.

[eddy2419]

Daid, I mean bjak,

Just as I thought, not willing to answer the questions. So by inference you have a "hidden" agenda. Frick off buddy, I mean David.

[MI Ben]

Read my question more carefully bjak; I asked if you sell O2 not if you make it. You only MAKE hot air.

Oo oo I think I was right!

Buy a commercial subscription.

[ESfishdoc]

OC BPD

[Ludicrous]

bjak - 2/12/2007 9:49 PM

Ludicrous, that’s a great question. “What happens if you accidentally switch your kite balloon helium tank with your livewell oxygen tank?” They suffocate, get red-nose and die. And another great question. “Will your baits squeak the same as before except in a really high pitch?” Maybe… maybe not. Do you use recreational nitrous oxide and play around breathing helium? If you do play with nitrous oxide or helium, be sure to add supplemental oxygen like anesthesiologist do or you could become hypoxic quickly, turn a blue-black color and suffocate right there on the spot. And never, ever strap that mask on your face and turn on the gas alone.
Is that an image of your skull? Yikes, would you look at that!

Why thank you. I'm known around here for the tough questions. I appreciate your time in answering my questions so thoroughly. Great tip for the addition of oxygen as the blue-black color of my skin was becoming troublesome! The x-ray photo is of a guy named Homer Simpson, a dear friend of mine. However here is an image of my skull during emergency surgery after a particularly violent SKA weigh in. That dang Hooters boat crew has great aim with the heavers.

[bjak]

Bullshipper, air is free and it’s everywhere, but those batteries, electricity, aerators water pumps, switches, PVC ball valves, hose clamps, l livewell pumps timers, mechanical electrical aerators and the super water pumps are poor attempts to safely insure your bait oxygenation when your hauling it hour after hour.

Let’s not leave the replacement cost when all this equipment breaks down and fails every year or so. Air may not be as free as you think after you figure how much you really pay for moving it from point A to point B. The cost of air doesn’t include bait replacement cost for the dead, dieing and poor bait quality you must deal with or battery replacements pump replacements, etc... Actually O2 is not only cheaper and more dependable than air it insures optimal DO water quality if enough volume is dissolved in the well water, it’s way better than air in the long haul.

You say eight ounces of bait for every 7.45 gallons of water is your maximum stocking density with aeration. That sounds like a reasonable bait weight/gallons of water ratio to me for a mechanical aeration device.

Let’s see; if one gallon of water weighs roughly 8 pounds, ½ pound of bait for every 7.45 gallons of water that weighs 60 pounds. You suggest “don’t exceed” this ratio: if that’s correct, well you can then haul 1.7 pounds of bait for every 25 gallons of water that weighs 200 pounds. Then if you want to haul more bait in a 50 gallon livewell then 3.4 pounds of bait is all you can haul in 400 pounds of water. If you want to bring 20 pounds of live bait you will need a livewell that would hold.

Let’s say some day you may want to bring 20 lbs of live bait for an all day trip. That would require a livewell water capacity of about 304 gallons that would weigh roughly 2400 pounds that would handle 20 pounds of live bait.

That takes a lot of fuel to haul all that extra water weight every day. How much does gasoline cost now in Mexico per liter in USD? We won’t even count the cost of 2 cycle oil in Mexico.

You are right about not feeding them, I wouldn’t feed them either… too much trouble with unnecessary poor water quality, bacteria and so on.

I’m like you on the induced hypothermia, to many terrible problems with temperature shock that always results in very poor quality baits on the hook. Selling water chillers has never crossed my mind.

“I WAS THE LARGEST OPERATOR IN THE NORTHWEST. WE HAD COMPANIES THAT TRIED OXYGEN SUPPLEMENTS BACK IN THE 70'S. THIS HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.” That’s sad you could not make it work in 1970, you were probably using the wrong equipment that was not capable to do the job or the gas waste was extremely high because of extreme you used inefficient welding oxygen equipment. This is the 21st century; science has made great advancements in oxygenation equipment that’s extremely efficient and cost effective. The world is no longer considered flat and man has successfully traveled to the moon and back safely since 1970, which was 37 years ago. You may want to reconsider you options now that the equipment is better and cost less.

“RIGHT, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?” Don’t send any money to me. Bring pesos. You can buy oxygen and oxygen equipment at any local welding supply shop in Mexico. I have no idea how many pesos you should bring though.

Eddie 2419, Looks like eddie’s getting upset and there’s that vulgar language coming out again, that’s just eddie being eddie I guess.

MI Ben, no, I don’t sell O2 or lease it. What ever gave you that idea? “Oxygen bars” are gaining in popularity these days. You can buy hits of oxygen with different flavors in “oxygen bars.” That may be a profitable business adventure. Google “oxygen bars” and check it out, see what you think. Try not to get ugly Ben.

ESfishdoc, what does “OC BPD” mean? That’s too cryptic for me and I need your help defining what those letters mean.

Ludicrous, glad to see you again. Ouch! I bet that really hurt. Got to go to work a while now, but I send you an image of a bud that had similar misfortune. The image is graphic and disturbing and was taken in the ER. Gotta watch out for those Hooter boys when you’re in the fish and the bite is on. Things can get wild in a hurry. Thanks for coming back.

[Fluka Brasi]

While we are on the topic of oxygen...

Tyler Durden: [pointing at an emergency instruction manual on a plane] You know why they put oxygen masks on planes?
Narrator: So you can breath.
Tyler Durden: Oxygen gets you high. In a catastrophic emergency, you're taking giant panicked breaths. Suddenly you become euphoric, docile. You accept your fate. It's all right here. Emergency water landing - 600 miles an hour. Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.
Narrator: That's, um... That's an interesting theory.

My guess here is that Fisherboy and Bdick are one in the same, but he sells both products. So he creates alter egoes (see the parallel here?) to debate himself on popular internet sights. Just a theory...

[Bullshipper]

MORE ANSWERS AND CAPS BELOW FOR THE SIMPLE MINDED.

bjak - 2/13/2007 7:46 AM

Bullshipper, air is free and it’s everywhere, but those batteries, electricity, aerators water pumps, switches, PVC ball valves, hose clamps, l livewell pumps timers, mechanical electrical aerators and the super water pumps are poor attempts to safely insure your bait oxygenation when your hauling it hour after hour.

THIS COMES WITH THE BOAT, AND IS NEEDED FOR ANY LIVEWELL SYSTEM. AFTER AQUIRING THIS, YOU CAN BUY REPLACEMENT LIVEWELL PUMP CARTRIGIGES FOR $13, EVERY $5 YEARS OR SO IF THE BURN OUT.

Let’s not leave the replacement cost when all this equipment breaks down and fails every year or so. Air may not be as free as you think after you figure how much you really pay for moving it from point A to point B. The cost of air doesn’t include bait replacement cost for the dead, dieing and poor bait quality you must deal with or battery replacements pump replacements, etc... Actually O2 is not only cheaper and more dependable than air it insures optimal DO water quality if enough volume is dissolved in the well water, it’s way better than air in the long haul.

AND YOUR SYSTEM IS CHEAPER TO AQUIRE AND RUN? DO YOU IMPLY THAT IT HAS A LIFETIME WARRANTY?

You say eight ounces of bait for every 7.45 gallons of water is your maximum stocking density with aeration. That sounds like a reasonable bait weight/gallons of water ratio to me for a mechanical aeration device.

THIS IS 50% OF MAXIMUM CARRTING CAPACITY FOR TINY FISH. 10 LBS PER CUBIC FOOT IS THE MAX. SARDINES OR ANCHOVIES GENERALLY RUN 20 TO THE LB, SO IF I PUT 15 LB IS A 3 FT3/20 GALLON SYSTEM, THATS 300 BAITS, AND I AM STILL AT 50% OF MAXIMUM CARRYING CAPACITY.

PLEASE GET A FULL GRASP OF THE DYNAMICS SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION BEFORE YOU RAMBLE ON TRY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T EXIST.

MOST OFFSHORE FISHEMAN HAVE LIVEWELLS LARGER THAN THIS BUT USUALLY OFFSHORE, 20 BAITS IS ENFOR A PARTY OF 3, SO WITH 300-600, ISN'T THAT ENOUGH CAPACITY? O2 WILL NOT HELP ME WITH SCALE OR SLIME LOSS IF I LOAD UP MORE, RIGHT?

Let’s see; if one gallon of water weighs roughly 8 pounds, ½ pound of bait for every 7.45 gallons of water that weighs 60 pounds. You suggest “don’t exceed” this ratio: if that’s correct, well you can then haul 1.7 pounds of bait for every 25 gallons of water that weighs 200 pounds. Then if you want to haul more bait in a 50 gallon livewell then 3.4 pounds of bait is all you can haul in 400 pounds of water. If you want to bring 20 pounds of live bait you will need a livewell that would hold.

Let’s say some day you may want to bring 20 lbs of live bait for an all day trip. That would require a livewell water capacity of about 304 gallons that would weigh roughly 2400 pounds that would handle 20 pounds of live bait.

That takes a lot of fuel to haul all that extra water weight every day. How much does gasoline cost now in Mexico per liter in USD? We won’t even count the cost of 2 cycle oil in Mexico.

You are right about not feeding them, I wouldn’t feed them either… too much trouble with unnecessary poor water quality, bacteria and so on.

I’m like you on the induced hypothermia, to many terrible problems with temperature shock that always results in very poor quality baits on the hook. Selling water chillers has never crossed my mind.

“I WAS THE LARGEST OPERATOR IN THE NORTHWEST. WE HAD COMPANIES THAT TRIED OXYGEN SUPPLEMENTS BACK IN THE 70'S. THIS HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.” That’s sad you could not make it work in 1970, you were probably using the wrong equipment that was not capable to do the job or the gas waste was extremely high because of extreme you used inefficient welding oxygen equipment. This is the 21st century; science has made great advancements in oxygenation equipment that’s extremely efficient and cost effective. The world is no longer considered flat and man has successfully traveled to the moon and back safely since 1970, which was 37 years ago. You may want to reconsider you options now that the equipment is better and cost less.

I SOLD MY OPERATION TO BRITISH PETROLEUM ATB A GOOD PROFIT AND CAME TO MEXICO TO BUY AND OPERATE 14 SILVERMINES. DON'T WORRY SON, I HAVE DONE OK IN LIFE.

“RIGHT, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?” Don’t send any money to me. Bring pesos. You can buy oxygen and oxygen equipment at any local welding supply shop in Mexico. I have no idea how many pesos you should bring though.

I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT MAKING ANY COLLECTIONS JUST YET. KEEP WASTING YOUR TIME TRYING TO SELL AIR TO HUMANS AND FISH, AND I PREDICT A GREAT SUCCESS FOR YOU IN LIFE. VERY PRACTICAL.