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What, boarding to do a search? It's perfectly legal and well within the powers of both the c.g. and conservation officers. They can even search your vehicle, which would otherwise require probable cause.
They do use the power. Why would it cause an uproar?
Sh-t, Birdman had me happy, and you came along and have me sad again, Justin post numbers, thats where I will be fishing next year.
__________________
1991 29' Blackfin Flybridge (Twin diesel) , 1991 Intrepid 246 Open w/ 250 yammi Blackfin in background
They can even search your vehicle, which would otherwise require probable cause.
Maybe in Mass., but that definately isn't the law anywhere else in the USA. They can search your boat as part of the implied consent (privilege) of using the waterways, but for your vehicle, they will either need your consent or a warrant.
Maybe in Mass., but that definately isn't the law anywhere else in the USA. They can search your boat as part of the implied consent (privilege) of using the waterways, but for your vehicle, they will either need your consent or a warrant.
Any police officer can search your vehicle with probable cause without a warrant or your cinsent. They will generally place you under arrest first, but they may merely detain you in their squad car until they are finished.
Probable cause would be met if yhey saw a weapon, drugs, alcohol, or for reasons related to the officers safety.
While it varies from state to state, many states grant environmental, conservation, or game wardens the right to search your vehicle if they suspect you have been hunting or fishing. CT is one of the states that permits this.
Note however that I am not a lawyer, I'm not playing one here, and none of this should be considered sound legal advice. However, you probably should tread lightly when the dudes(ettes) with the guns and badges tell you to get out of the vehicle and stand aside while they search it...
And your wrong. Most folks "believe" they can board your boat without a Warrant. they CAN'T. Unless they have just cause. The problem is, it's really easy to come up with a "just cause".
But trust me, they are NOT getting on my boat, period. I'll see them in court, and I will have a field day.
And your wrong. Most folks "believe" they can board your boat without a Warrant. they CAN'T. Unless they have just cause. The problem is, it's really easy to come up with a "just cause".
But trust me, they are NOT getting on my boat, period. I'll see them in court, and I will have a field day.
Care to share the exact laws and where I can find a copy?
Care to share the exact laws and where I can find a copy?
Go ahead birdie, make their day.
The Coast Guard has the authority under Title 14 USC 89
to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches,
seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over
which the United States has jurisdiction, in order to enforce
federal laws. To compel compliance, the Coast Guard may
use necessary force. A vessel underway, upon being hailed
by a Coast Guard vessel or patrol boat, is required to stop
immediately and heave to, or maneuver in such a way as to
permit the boarding officer and boarding party to come
aboard. Failure to stop to permit boarding may subject the
operator or owner of the vessel to a maximum penalty of
$500.00. Forcibly resisting a Coast Guard boarding officer is
a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and
$10,000.00 fine.
A civil penalty of up to $500.00 may be imposed by the
Coast Guard for failure to comply with equipment
requirements, to comply with numbering requirements, to
observe the Rules of the Road, to report a boating accident,
etc.
COAST GUARD BOARDING POLICY
To enforce these laws, the Coast Guard is empowered to
board and inspect vessels. Many of the laws can be
successfully enforced only by boarding a vessel while it is
underway. Boardings are not necessarily based on
suspicion that a violation already exists aboard the vessel.
Their purpose is to prevent violations. The courts have
consistently upheld this authority. All Coast Guard officers
and petty officers are Federal law enforcement officers and
they may board any United States vessel anywhere.
The Coast Guard boarding team is armed. Although most
mariners that are boarded are engaged in legitimate
recreational or commercial pursuits, even a seemingly
innocent pleasure boat boarding sometimes turns into a
dangerous confrontation.
The Coast Guard follows a standard procedure before
boarding. Coast Guard personnel will always properly
identify themselves, will always be in uniform, coveralls, or
survival suit displaying Coast Guard insignia, and will
always operate from a marked Coast Guard or Navy vessel
flying the Coast Guard Ensign.
Coast Guard vessels may have their running
lights extinguished at night while conducting law
enforcement operations. Running lights, if off,
will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will
usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign
flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on
the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.
Once aboard the vessel, the boarding party will check for
compliance with federal laws. If, during the inspection, a
reasonable suspicion develops that the vessel has been
engaged in criminal activity, the boarding officer may
investigate further. Coast Guard boarding officers are
trained to be courteous to the public.
The Coast Guard strives for a proper balance between
avoiding intrusions into the activities of law-abiding
individuals and conducting effective law enforcement.
Occasionally, however, the Coast Guard will receive a
complaint that a boarding was conducted improperly.
These complaints involve a very small fraction of all
boardings. Nevertheless, any complaints of boardings
contrary to Coast Guard policy will be investigated.
(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States.
For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance.
When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized. (b) The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall: (1) be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular executive department or independent establishment charged with the administration of the particular law; and (2) be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by such department or independent establishment with respect to the enforcement of that law. (c) The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.
How's that for law?
Birdie, do you have anything that supersedes this? No, Article 10 doesn't.
Oh, and no, I am NOT a lawyer, and I'm not playing one here. REAL lawyers can add what they like.
And where in any of the United States Code or Code of Federal Regulations does that extend to your car? And more importantly, where is it extended to state law enforcement entities - nowhere.
The police can only search a vehicle with probable cause, or as part of the sham that the contraband is in plain sight - otherwise a warrant is needed. Now they can detain you and your vehicle until they get that warrant or ask you to consent to a search, but they cannot search of their own volition lest the evidence be suppressed.
Gerg,
That is all just wonderful information. Unfortunately for you, it has NOTHING to do with the NY State DEC (the local NY fishing enforcement agency) boarding my boat for any reason.
The CG is welcome to board my boat, anytime they wish. I LOVE the CG. They are here for us, to help and protect us, and I'm all for them, and welcome their inspections anytime (and have in the past).
But the NMFS, NYDEC, or Suffolk County Police (our local police patrolling the area), WILL need a warrant to get on my boat, to search for fish. There's only one other way they will board my boat, and that is if they shoot me first. I doubt a PO shooting a recreational fisherman would look too good on the local news, so I doubt that would occur.
All that said, the only problem I really have with all this is, even if they ever do board my boat somehow, I will most likely NOT have an illegal or legal fish on-board, unless it somehow literally jumped into my boat. Cause lord knows I can't catch a fish on my own!!
Guys, you are just shooting the messenger. I really don't care if you believe me.
But, first, I never said this statute covered your vehicle. But there are state statutes that permit a conservation officer/game warden/park ranger/whatever duly authorized wildlife cop to search your vehicle without a warrant if they have reasoon to suspect you have fish or game inside. Is that probable cause? I don't know, ask a lawyer.
Secondly, NY DEC would have those very powers if the C.G. deputized them. They do that frequently. But, even if not, there is likely a NYS law that gives them the same power as the c.g.
You guys can use google. Just look for it.
In any event, I would strongly advise not resisting a badge/gun request to step aside and allow a search. Maybe you can have evience thrown out later if they find something, but it can go from a request to an arrest very quickly. Disorderly conduct can be applied in a heartbeat.
Now you have to hire a lawyer, take time off from work, and could have a felony charge hanging over you. Have a nice day if that happens.
Like an old family lawyer used to say - "I'll get you out of jail if it takes me the rest of my life and all of your money".
6. No person operating a vessel upon the navigable waters of the state
or on the tidewaters bordering on and lying within the boundaries of
Nassau or Suffolk county shall fail or refuse to comply with any lawful
order or direction of any police officer or peace officer acting
pursuant to his or her special duties. Failure or refusal to comply with
such lawful order or direction shall be a violation punishable as
provided for in subdivision seven of this section.
7. A violation of subdivision one, one-a, two or six of this section
shall constitute a violation punishable as set forth in section
seventy-three-c of this article.
And EVEN better, this statute is specific to the DEP officers (Title 9 - ENFORCEMENT OF ARTICLES 11 AND 13--THE FISH AND WILDLIFE LAW - 71-0907 - Powers and duties of enforcement officers. )....:
Quote:
4. Officers named in subdivision 1 shall have power:
a. To execute all warrants and search warrants issued for violation of
the Fish and Wildlife Law and to serve subpoenas issued for examination,
investigation or trial of offenses against any of its provisions;
b. To search without search warrant any boat or vehicle of any kind,
any box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, package or any
container of any nature and the contents of any building other than a
dwelling whenever they have cause to believe that any provision of this
article or of any law for the protection of fish, shellfish, crustacea,
wildlife, game or protected insects has been or is being violated, and
to use such force as may be necessary for the purpose of examination and
search;
Those are your NYS statutes on record.
I've argued frequently that we live in a totalitarian country, and it is getting worse with all the patriot powers and other homeland security laws being passed.
The guy who owns the gas station and dock in my area tells me that the dec guy showed up and talked to the forty or so fishermen that line the bulk head most times, told them they all needed the license to fish..he was very polite, said he was just warning them for now...He never bothered to look in the buckets or pails that had mucho many fish...all shorts and many out of season ie. porgies..If he did see them, he didn't bother to cite them or even mention it.. Perhaps he thought they might throw him in the bay, who knows. I do know if they stop my boat and I have shorts or out of season fish they wouldn't hesitate to write me up...I wonder why the inequality..perhaps its because I didn't vote the man...anyway, IMHO it will get worse. When do we vote these bums out??What will it take??They already take our $$ and now our right to fish. Whats next?????????????????????????
PS: what happens when they ask for ID to give you a ticket, your fishing from the shore, you say you don't have any with you...do they take you to jail? Washington, Albany?...handcuffs?..how does all that work???
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1987 Grady-White 24' Offshore
2006 225hp E-Tec on bracket
gerg,
Your siting snipits of info. And note they ALL say thye MUST HAVE JUST CAUSE.... There is only ONE thing I have EVER seen judges fight officers of the law (and that includes Feds, County PO's, Security gauards, State troopers, State DEC Officers, CG.....), and that is, the proof for the "Just Cause". If they suspect for ANY reason, there was not just cause, unless you Ax murdered the judges daughter, you are going to walk. Judges know that is the last thing left in world protecting people from over zelous law enforcement.
My last ticket (un-inpsected vehicle) was dropped. I had a huge long list of great excuses all lined up to fight it. Low and behold, the 1st thing the Judge asked the PO was, why did you pull him over? The PO said it was a road block (which it was). He then asked me if that was true, and if I knew why I was pulled over. I responed kinda perplexed: "Yes, it was a road block, and they pulled all of us over." the judge then said "What do you mean by everybody?" I responded, there were about 4 cars in front of me, and they pointed to the side of the road for all of us, we all lined up on the shoulder and then they inpsected us..." The judge stopped me and said ok, "dismissed". The PO pissed off, asked why? and the judge said "there was no just cause" (and I quote). Apparently, they can only pull over a set pattern of cars in a road block, like every other car, or every 3rd car, OR have just cause as in, they see your window sticker is expired. Well in my case, they pulled over the whole lot, and that's a no no.
Now, I don't drink and operate the boat. I don't target fish I'm not supposed to. Even if I did, I couldn't catch one anyway!! So, they will NOT have just cause to board my boat. Hence, they will NOT board my boat, without a warrant.
And when they get their warrant finally 3 days later, I will gladly see the NMFS in court as I drag their sorry Federal asses to thru the mud!! I will really enjoy how they explain how they are making supposed "rules" to a judge with 1/2 a brain.
Fish for WHATEVER YOU WISH, WHENEVER YOU WISH, and TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT. And we can all have a little "tea party" when some jerkoff tries arresting you or me for it.
This country went to WAR, and was formed mainly, from a 3% tax levied from the motherland. I pay close 75% taxes right now between income tax, state tax, federal taxes, govenment fee's, sales tax, relaestate taxes, taxes on software I need to buy, in order to figure out how much F'in tax I own the bastards!! So I'll be damned if they tell me I can't catch a fish for dinner.
Birdie, if nothing else, you are a colorful critter. Sure, those are snippits, but people have spent years in prison based on the power of those words. and btw, the regs don't mention probably cause, just suspicion. Two very different standards.
Hey, I don't write them, I don't enforce them, and I don't prosecute them, but I don't play in traffic either (as a rule).
So go ahead and catch your 14 inch out of season dinner. Your $400/hour attorney will appreciate it.
Fish for WHATEVER YOU WISH, WHENEVER YOU WISH, and TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT. And we can all have a little "tea party" when some jerkoff tries arresting you or me for it.
This country went to WAR, and was formed mainly, from a 3% tax levied from the motherland. I pay close 75% taxes right now between income tax, state tax, federal taxes, govenment fee's, sales tax, relaestate taxes, taxes on software I need to buy, in order to figure out how much F'in tax I own the bastards!! So I'll be damned if they tell me I can't catch a fish for dinner.
Fish for WHATEVER YOU WISH, WHENEVER YOU WISH, and TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT. And we can all have a little "tea party" when some jerkoff tries arresting you or me for it.
This country went to WAR, and was formed mainly, from a 3% tax levied from the motherland. I pay close 75% taxes right now between income tax, state tax, federal taxes, govenment fee's, sales tax, relaestate taxes, taxes on software I need to buy, in order to figure out how much F'in tax I own the bastards!! So I'll be damned if they tell me I can't catch a fish for dinner.
You realize of course that you have just given any potential boarding officer "probable cause" to board your vessel, and a way to easily id it...
The license in NY is tough now. Especially for out of state guys.
My parents have a cottage on a lake that our family travels to on the weekends. Since I have moved to PA, I now need the out of state license, $70 bucks.
I really wish I would have bought a lifetime license before I moved.
Impeach the bums who back this....take back our country...take back our freedoms...take back our rights to bear arms, and of course to fish...it may seem like a small thing but once they (the govnmnt) start screwing with your small things you have to retaliate or lose everything! We're getting really close now....How are you liking CHANGE now?????
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1987 Grady-White 24' Offshore
2006 225hp E-Tec on bracket
, Justin post numbers, thats where I will be fishing next year.
Blackfin in background
