Sashamy

I am not Mark...so not to post public info but I am aseveryone knows Doug...

loligo

Well Doug, sorry about the confusion, I don't mince words so...

You should really consider choosing a different "handle", as you can see that one is obviously taken, I recognized the name immediately, so it was a reasonable assumption, but you know what they say about assumptions....



The rest of what I said previously stands.



The whole idea behind a management policy that favors any gear/s that are incapable of greatly or completely eliminate it's discards (if it has any...) be they regulatory or undersized-unmarketable(what is that...dogs?) needs to be reconsidered, if we really do want to restore certain species, in a relatively short period of time, as required by the .....law...then unless I'm mistaken...we're screwed already, because as they realize that they are gonna have to give someone the ax, it's gonna come down to draggers vs g'nets anyways, so I'm choosing draggers now.



The draggers F the bottom a bit, but I've fished bottom thats been hit pretty good offshore and it fishes, the fish are there, you can catch fish, the draggers can catch fish.....but...if the nets are there, then theres lots of nets there, thats how they do it, like ten monkees f'n a beachball. Nobody else can really fish a bottom the nets are on, and the rotting fish tends to attract the "wrong fish" too.

Gill netting is an effective and even size selective gear, however, it is terrible at not catching too much. Seeing as we do have catch limits, which fair or not we all must adhere to, it's the law. The spirit of conservation is our actual efforts to constrain unneccesary and substantial discards of cod. The use of gill nets at all for ground fish must be questioned completely.

The nets are often left unnattended in bad weather, which invariably means rotted fish and all kinds of bycatch. I've been there done it seen it, caused it. I'm not born again, don't want to hear bull$hit jibberish. The nets need to stop.

loligo

I can't edit the above, but after a series of PM's I understand my confusion more clearly.

Sashamy

Point taken...no need to edit...above its my boat name...I just thought they were under more restrictions...but I guess I can ask Mark or Dad in this case!

loligo

Ya know, I apologize for being so brash....



No there is no new limits imposed on MA states waters gill net fishery, in fact, according to statements by Diodatti, there won't be anythime soon either....



But then, in December 2007, MR. Diodati told the MFAC -

“We did have a sub-committee meeting with members of industry, to talk about future rules in our gillnet fishery…….

Although most of the groundfish being landed commercially in Ma., 80% of it is being landed by the gillnet sector….

I thought it was wise not to take any action at that meeting or in the immediate future. “





"

CMP

Hook and line fishing on owner-operated day boats is the only way to save the NE gound fishery and those who are in it. Won't happen, but it's a nice thought anyway...

CMP

__________________

Sashamy

I agree Mark but the hard part would be getting flat fish...

loligo

Yep- it only worked for 400 years

loligo

Not with a dragger it wouldn't[img]../images/emoticons/confused.gif[/img]. Yea I know. yea you can use a tied down net and all that but theres still the lobsters, and flounder mesh is fine it cuts the bugs up. We managed for as long time without the use of anchored gill nets to catch a lot of fish that gill nets now dominate those fisheries regionally. It's a dirty business, it should just be banned everywhere. Draggers go home nets stay in the water ewxcept when they are hauled...do the math.

As a hook fleet we'd never ever catch enough to meet the demand anymore so....ya need the draggers.

But you don't need the gill nets.

I might be OK with the monkfish at 10 inchmesh or larger...way offshore down south away from the cod.

We've really got to do what we can to stop the discards.

They'll say it isn't all the time,thats true, it's not every trip that you have big sets, but it's aslo the trips you do and it gets ugly, really ugly. b You can get the 800#'s in just 1/2 a net and still have the rest of that one and several others nearby too....it has to end.

The Cape Cod Times had John Our quoted saying he was throwing away a thousand pounds a day and that he owned something like 13 permits......It's ridiculous. That article is archived and I'm not ponying up the $2.95 to get it cause the CCT are info nazi's.



Do you know they don't use gill nets in Alaska to catch groundfish....just jigs and pots. Sounds nice[img]../images/emoticons/thumbsup.gif[/img]

loligo

Did I mention the CCCHFA has gillnetters as members now....[img]../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-money-mouth.gif[/img]

loligo

Bulletin of the United States Fish Commission 1883
Page 441

Success of the Gillnet Cod Fishery on the New England Coast, Winter of 1882 - '83
By J.W. Collins

The importance of theintroduction, by the United States Fish Commission, of the method ofcatching codfish by the use of gill-nets, a full account of which wasgiven in the first volume of the Bulletin, has never been so apparentas during the present winter. Owing to the almost total failure of thebait supply it has been impracticable to carry on the shore cod-fisheryby the old method of hook-and-line fishing.

Such a scarcity of baithas never been known before, and if the fishermen had not beeninstructed in the use of gill-nets for the capture of cod a valuableand important industry must have been almost abandoned for this season,at least while the scarcity of fresh cod in our markets would haveincreased the price to such an extent as practically to place thisimportant article of food beyond the reach of the masses.

But during the past twoyears the New England fishermen have learned a great deal aboutcatching codfish in nets from an illustrated pamphlet containingdescriptions of all the methods, which has been freely circulated bythe United States Fish Commissioner, Prof. Spencer F. Baird, and tothis was also added the knowledge gained in a practical way.

They were therefore prepared to meet such an unforeseen emergency as has arisen this winter, and, instead of being compelled to give up the shore cod-fishery, have met with a success which has rarely or never been equaled. Such excellent results have been obtained by the use of gill-nets in the cod fisheries that the local papers in the principal fishing ports have contained frequent notices of successful catches.

The Cape Ann Advertiser of December 8, 1883, gives the following account of the "Good results of net cod-fishing."

"On Tuesday, December 4, boat Equal, with two men, took 5,000 pounds of large codfish in seven nets offshore sharing $40 each. The Rising Star has stocked $1,200 the past fortnight fishing in Ipswich Bay. The Morrill Boy has shared $101 to a man net-fishing off this shore the past three weeks:"

The last-mentioned schooner, the Morrill Boy, met with unexampled success, her crew of five men having shared $320 apiece, clear of all expenses, by the last of December, the time employed being less than six weeks.From the port of Gloucester alone, according to Capt. S. J. Martin,there were employed in the gill-net cod-fishery during December twentyvessels, carrying 124 men and 176 nets. In the period between November19 and the last of December, 600 000 pounds of large shore codfish werelanded in Gloucester, while 150,000 pounds were marketed at Rockportand Portsmouth, making a grand total of 750,000 pounds.

-------------------------------------------------------

Bulletin of the United States Fish Commission 1883
Page 442

When to this is added theamount which was probably taken by the vessels from Swampscott,Portsmouth, and other ports, it is perhaps safe to say that no lessthan 2,000,000 pounds of this highly valued and most excellentfood-fish were taken by nets during the month of December and thelatter part of November. The fish caught in nets have been ofextraordinary size, averaging more than 20 pounds each, while someindividuals weigh as much as 60 or 75 pounds.(1)

During the past two winters cod have been taken in nets, with rare exceptions, only in Ipswich Bay, but this season they have been caught very extensively on the rocky shoals in Massachusetts Bay. Since the beginning of January, however, the fish have been most abundant in Ipswich Bay and the fleet of shore cod fishermen have resorted to that locality, where they have met with the most flattering success, the catch during the first month of the year being, it is said, much larger than at any previous time. (2) The Cape Ann Advertiser of January 26, 1883, contains the following item in relation to this subject:

"The net cod-fishermen are meeting with good success in Ipswich Bay. On Thursday of last week three fares of handsome large cod-fish, nearly 30,000 pounds, were landed at Portsmouth."

An important matter for consideration, in this connection is, that not only can the cod-fishery be successfully carried on even when bait is not obtainable - for, of course, no bait is required when nets are usedbut a very great saving is made in time and expense. As an instance of this it may be stated that the average bait-bill of a shore trawler would not be less than $150 to $250 per month, when herring are so high-priced as they have been this winter. Therefore it is safe to estimate that, when such a large fleet is employed in gill netting as there has been this season, the amount saved to the fishermen (which otherwise must be paid for bait) cannot be less than $30,000 to $40,000.

The day is now not fardistant when the United States Fish Commission will be able tosupplement the many other important works it has done, one of which isbringing about this innovation in the fisheries, by propagating the codon a very extensive scale, this having been found perfectlypracticable. When this is done, we may confidently '

-----------------------------------------------

Bulletin of the United States Fish Commission 1883
Page 443

look forward to the establishment along our coast, from Eastern Maine to Virginia, of a cod-fishery unexcelled in any part of the world, and which for ages to come will be a fruitful source of food supply for the millions who people our land.
Washington D. C., March 1, 1883.

Footnotes
* The above statements are based on the report of the Gloucesterfisheries for November and December, by Capt. Stephen J. Martin, of theUnited States Fish Commission, pp. 159-161 of this volume.
# According to Captain Martin's report for January, 1883, 121,000pounds of cod that were caught in gill-nets were landed in Gloucesterduring the month. (See page 168 of this volume.) Writing to ProfessorBaird, under date of February 6, 1883 (see page 160 of this volume) hemakes the statement that ten sail of small vessels, which had beenfishing in Ipswich Bay, had landed at Rockport, Mass., and Portsmouth,N. H., during the previous twenty days, 230,000 pounds of largecodfish. Calculating on this basis, the total catch of the whole fleetduring the mouth of January would be very large. Owing to the fact,however, that no accurate and reliable statistics of the entire catchin gill-nets, along the whole coast, is obtainable, estimates must bebased on the reports of the Gloucester fisheries, which have beencarefully made by Captain Martin.

END

loligo

no bait....huh? what do you know?.....sounds distinctly familiar......

loligo

More fascinating history....

Sashamy

well now that it is whale season again and all gear has to be officially whale proof, makes for more ghost gear...600 pound break aways are not that strong...

loligo

Makes hang ups kinda suck.....

ufish2

They must of had MW trawlers back then...........

loligo

In the interest of compromise.....I have decided not to petition the state for a complete ban on gill nets for GF in state waters.



I have reached the conclusion that a petition to modify the rules will be far better recieved that one calling for an outright ban.

For starters, no net areas, no fishing with gill nets in the "CCZ" (which needs to be reopened to hooks only) and - this is the biggy- no unnattended nets. When the boats go home....the nets go home- period.



Thoughts?

north coast

It sounds good to me, trouble I see is getting Diodati to listen. seems to me ,it's alot easier for him to just keep stuff closed. why make life tougher if he doesn't have to?

loligo

You hit that nail on the head NC. He is seriously allergic to conflict. We'll have to give him a big dose of benadryl.....bend over Paul,,, time for your shot......

aloop

That's the smartest thing I seen you put into letter formation. The rules can always be bent, stretched, twisted, warped, misinturrpeted, and eventually broken, but even the draggers take their gear home