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Old 02-01-2009, 07:51 PM
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Default Transducers - FAQ

Fishfinder transducers are often a source of confusion among our customers. Let's try to simplify it.


There are three basic styles of transducers:
[*]Thru-hull - actually requires a hole to be drilled through the bottom of your boat to fit the ducer[*]In-Hull - also called "shoot through" - these are epoxied or glued inside your bilge[*]Transom Mount - these screw onto the transom[/list]

Each style of ducer has its benefits and drawbacks.[*]Thru-hull (good) - offers best performance, usually includes temp sensor (bad) - requires a hole to be put in the bottom of the boat. Can be troublesome to replace.[*]In-Hull (good) - is easy to install, boat can stay in the water during installation, least affected by turbulence (bad) - no temp capabilities, lose 30% of range[*]Transom Mount - (good) - easy to install, easy to replace (bad) easily affected by turbulence, requires screws to be put into the transom which can compromise the transom core[/list]

Different styles of boats require different kinds of transducers. The text below is just a guideline, there are always exceptions. But generally:[*]Inboard boats require an in-hull or thru-hull. Transom mount ducers will not work on inboard boats.[*]Boats with cored bottoms require a transom mount or thru-hull. In hull ducers will not work.[*]Metal boats require a transom mount or a SS thru-hull. In hull ducers will not work.[/list]

Cone Angle - What is it?[*]Cone angle is the angle at which a transducer shoots down from your boat. Imagine a cheerleaders megaphone placed at the bottom of your boat. If you were somehow able to look down through this megaphone you would essentially have the same view a ducer has. A narrow megaphone (cone angle) will show a small portion of the water while a wide megaphone will show you a larger portion of the water. Typically a 200kHz single freq ducer will have a cone angle of about 20 degrees, and a dual freq ducer will have a cone angle of 12 degrees at 200kHz and 45 degrees at 50kHz. The shape of your megaphone will extend all the way to the bottom of the ocean, so a wider cone angle will show more of the bottom at one time.

Recently Airmar has released a series of Dual Frequency Ducers with a wide cone angle at both 50 and 200 kHz. These are very popular for the offshore trolling crowd. The wide angle at 200kHz allows fisherman to find greatdetail near the top of the water column while still covering a wide swath of water.[/list]

Dual Frequency vs Single Freq vs Dual Beam[*]Dual frequency ducers (50kHz and 200kHz) are best for deeper water beyond 150'. The 200kHz signal is used up to 150ft then the 50kHz is used for deeper water as it can penetrate further. You will need a dual frequency FF to use one of these ducers.[*]Single frequency ducers (200kHz) are best for water below 150'. If you primarily fish in water less than 150' you are better off with a 200kHz ducer than a 50/200kHz ducer as the cone angle is wider than a 50/200kHz ducer operating at 200kHz.[*]Dual Beam ducers are 200kHz ducers that actually "listen back" for a 83kHz signal. All ducers have this 83kHz signal (which has a very wide cone angle) but most filter it out. A dual beam ducer actually looks for this signal. You will need a Dual Beam capable FF to use one of these ducers.[/list]

Power - 600W vs 1kW[*]600W - these ducers are most common for boats under 25' and boats that intend to fish inshore in water less than 250' deep. Effective usable range is approx 900'.[*]1kW (1000W) - these ducers are most common for offshore fisherman and for coastal bottom fisherman. Approx range is 2000'[/list]

Tilted Element - Whats this mean?[*]In about 2006 Airmar came out with some super cool thru-hull transducers that have owned the market since release. These ducers are flush mount and are meant to be mounted on one side or the other of the center of the boat. The ceramic element inside is actually tilted to compensate for the deadrise of the boat. These ducers do not require a fairing block and are very easy to mount. They are offered in 600W and 1kW. They come in 12 degree or 20 degree tilt. If your deadrise is higher than 15 degrees then get the 20 degree ducer, if 15 or less then get the 12 degree version. Easy.[/list]


Painting Transducers[*]If your boat is bottom painted and you leave it in the water you will alo need to paint your transducer. It's important to make sure you use a water-based anti-fouling paint. We sell it in small spray cans.[/list]

Popular Transducers (the ones to have): even though there are literally hundreds of transducers there are very few that actually sell. Most are made by a company called Airmar. No matter if you buy a Garmin ducer, Furuno ducer or whatever, chances are it is made by Airmar. There are a few popular Airmar model numbers that are used by each electronics manufacturer.


600W Transducers:[*]P66 Transom mount, 600W - has speed, temp and depth. Dual Frequency
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B60-12 Tilted Element Thru-Hull - 600W, has temp, dual Frquency, 12 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine (A Series, C/E Series) | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B60-20 Tilted Element Thru-Hull - 600W, has temp, dual Frquency,20 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine (A Series, C/E Series) | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B744 Thru Hull w/Fairing Block - 600W - dual frquency
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar (M Series) | Simrad[*]P79 In Hull - 600W - dual frquency
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[/list]

1kW Transducers[*]B260 - High Performance thru-hull with Fairing Block - 1kW, Dual Frequency
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar (8000i, 491) | Simrad[*]B164-0 Tilted Element Thu Hull - 1kW - dual freq - 0 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B164-12 Tilted Element Thu Hull - 1kW - dual freq - 12 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar (6/8xxx Series, M Series) | Simrad[*]B164-20 Tilted Element Thu Hull - 1kW - dual freq -20 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar (6/8xxx Series, M Series) | Simrad[*]M260 - In Hull - dual frequency - 1kW
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]SS270 Wide Beam High Performance Thru Hull with Fairing Block - 1kW - dual frequency
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B264-12 Wide Beam High Performance Tilted Element - 50kHz and 200kHz have separate housings - 12 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[*]B264-20 Wide Beam High Performance Tilted Element - 50kHz and 200kHz have separate housings -20 degree tilt
Garmin | Raymarine | Furuno | Lowrance | Northstar | Simrad[/list]

In Hull Ducers - How to get water temp?[*]In Hull ducers are suitable for many boats, but fisherman still want water temp. There are 2 ways to go about getting temp. One is a transom mount temp sensor and the other is thru-hull. Some electronics manufacturers like Garmin and Raymarine offer Y adapter with temp sensors to make adding temp a breeze. With other brands you can actually use a NMEA temp sensor. These come in two varieties - smart and analog. Analog sensors require a doo-dad to convert the analog signal to NMEA while smart sensors do this conversion internally. With either variety they will ultimately terminate at your electronics display connecting to the NMEA0183 input. NMEA2000 temp sensors are starting to hit the market too. Of course these will plug right into your NMEA2000 network (see our NMEA2000 Guide).[/list]
Jump to manufacturer list of ducers:[*]Raymarine[*]Garmin[*]Simrad[*]Standard Horizon[*]Lowrance[*]Furuno[*]Northstar[*]Humminbird[*]Interphase[/list]
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Transducers - FAQ

Jim-
All good info. Do you have a good guide to tuning your FF/Sonar. I just have a basic Garmin 440S stock transducer and want to make sure I can get the best performance out of it I can. I have messed around with the gain and other features but find myself always going back to auto everything. Ideally I would love to have perfect little crescent moons marking fish but I know I won't get that without a better setup. Any tips?

Thanks.

-Svence
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Transducers - FAQ

I don't have a guide for that. I doubt you are going to get the performance it seems you are craving with the 440. I would ask your question on the main forum, there are likely people there that have spent a bunch of time to figure that unit out, or any of the Garmin 4" or 5" units.
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:29 PM
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Default dumb question?

Can you use a raymarine triducer with a garmin network. I have the triducer installed from the last system that was on the boat but i want to replace the display and sounder with garmin 4208
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:49 PM
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There is no off the shelf adapter, but I think it can be done. You'll want to get in touch with Airmar about it though - www.airmar.com. They can tell you what colors to match up when splicing on a new cable.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:04 AM
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Default

I have a non-painted hull with a Airmar B164. The boat is used in fresh & salt water but is never left in the water for more than 3 days and it is always cleaned when it comes out. Can I get away with not painting the transducer as long as I clean it regularly?
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:25 PM
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If its a non-painted hull you should not have to paint your ducer. Ducers only get painted on bottom painted boats that stay in the water for months.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:08 PM
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Default

Jim-
I bottom fish in the Gulf, mainly in depths 60ft-100ft, and I want to upgrade my transducer in the near future. I know I dont need a very powerful transducer for the depths I fish, but I am curious if a 1 KW transducer will give me better detail than a 600 Watt transducer. Would I be wasting my money buying a 1 KW transducer? What would you recommend?

Last edited by CapeAngler; 09-10-2010 at 06:09 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:28 PM
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Default Sounder and depth transducers play together?

The boat has a Raymarine ST70 depth sensor and I'll be installing a Garmin sounder transducer soon.

I suspect that they both work on the same frequency(s).

How will they interact? Will the depth sensor go bonkers whenever I turn on the sounder? Will the sounder accuracy be affected by the depth sensor?

Is there a way to deal with this sensibly?
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:52 PM
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If your raymarine ducer is 235kHz then you will be fine. If it is 200kHz then they will drive each other bonkers.
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:24 AM
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Thanks Jim -

If the Raymarine is not 235khz is there an 235khz transducer available that will suit a Garmin 750? (Need to mount completely within the boat, not through hull)
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:15 PM
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You can get a nmea2000 P79 in hull depth sensor. it will not work as a fishfinder for the scrolling bottom, but will show depth. There are no 235kHz options that work as a fishfinder.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:57 PM
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I was worried I was losing 30% of my in hull transducer's range (m260 Airmar) til I saw this

http://www.airmartechnology.com/uplo...cy%20Shift.pdf

turns out it is a worst case 11%
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:48 PM
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Call Airmar, talk to somebody that is not just reading off the spec sheet. Its 30%.
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:30 AM
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It is correct that typically 30% of the power is lost when shooting through a fiberglass hull, but the relationship between power and range is not linear so this translates into a typical 10% loss of range.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:47 PM
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Is power and sensitivity ( Q? ) one and the same?
Will it lose 30% of its sensitivity also?

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Old 03-08-2011, 08:35 PM
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Sensitivity is not affected.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:24 PM
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Ok thanks Jim
Sorry for the seemingly silly questions but there really are many issues to consider in picking the right td for the application.
So for those that fish in the shallower water (>400) it not such a big deal loosing some of the power, we will see just as much in the shallow water with a b260 or a m260 (IIRC Airmar rates their Q the same)

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Old 03-09-2011, 02:20 AM
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Yes, you will loose some sensitivity. When using a shoot through transducer you will have to crank up the sensitivity (gain) a bit compared to a transducer with the same element which is in direct contact with water.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:53 AM
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Ok, thx for the info
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