BIG R JR

I'm in the process of purchasing a new 2007 Evinrude 250HP Etec for my cc boat. Electronics I currently have are a Garmin 172C GPS with antenna on t-top, and a Garmin 250C Fish Finder with dual 50/200 transducer mounted on the transom.

Questions I have:

1-- Can I use my Garmin 172C GPS and Garmin 250C FF in the I-COMMAND GAUGE NETWORK ???
(units are 2004 and are NMEA compatiable, don't know if they are NMEA2000 or not )

2-- If I purchase the Digital I-Command Tach and Speedometer can't I interface them with the Garmin GPS antenna and Garmin FF transducer and won't have to purchase extra equipment for functions ???

3-"If I can use above equipment" that I already have, I won't need to purchase add.'l network equipment ??
......GPS receiver/antenna........Temperature sensor......Transom-mounted triducer........

4--My Helm Dash has 5 holes for gauges, 2 Large(3") and 3 small ones(2")....If I fill the large ones with the Tach, and Speedometer. What should/would you fill the 3 small ones with ????

These I-COMMAND Digital gauges are really loaded with about 64 items of information through out the network, I just trying to pick and choose what I need and want in the network during my engine install..
Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.....

Thanks,

Big R

yachtjim

I am under the assumption the Icommand gauges are the exact same thing as the Lowrance LMF gauges aside from some software differences, so it wil not interface with your Garmin stuff at all. Soon there will be a bridge to convert 0183 to 2000 so you might wait until spring to make a decision. You can fill the small holes with Lowrance LMF-200 2" gauges. If you don't want to wait for the nmea converter you can just get a Lowrance NMEA2000 GPS antenna like the LGC3000 to put GPS data on the network, this is about $200.

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BIG R JR

Thanks Jim for reply to my dilemma. I found in the Garmin manuels today the 1083 numbers your referring to. Ok then my Garmin equipment is not going to interface with my network unless I purchase the LGC3000 antenna for around $200, right ? Then I should be able to use the GPS and the I-Command Gauges and/or the Lowrance LMF Gauges too, since they are identical.

What about the Garmin FF ??? It's also 1083 will I need add'l. equipment for it too ???

Thanks,

Big R

yachtjim

The FF will not integrate with the Icommand stuff until that 0183 to 2000 converter comes out. The Garmin unit will not communicate with the Icommand stuff at all until then.

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BIG R JR

Jim,
Again thanks for clearing this up for me...0183 won't work with 2000 NMEA till new converter is out...GOT IT

Thank-you,

Big R

jfwireless

Make sure when you buy the I-Command gauges and engine NMEA 2000 interface cables for the E-TEC's they are the red connector type, not the blue Lowrance connector type as these are not NMEA 2000 compliant. The Lowrance blue connectors will work with the Lowrance systems and past E-TEC blue system cabling, but as of this month Lowrance and Evinrude are also manufacturing the red connectors for all backbone, cables, and sensors. The red NMEA 2000 connectors will work with all other vendors with NMEA 2000 compliant systems. If you currently have blue connectors, there are adapators to convert from blue to red, but that just adds additional cost to each senor or connection. Go with the red connectors for new NMEA networks.

If you can wait for the Garmin GMI10 that comes out the first quarter fo 2008, than you can have a gauge that accepts both NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000. So you can use your existing FF and GPS to input position and depth into the GMI10 via NMEA 0183, and all other info from the E-TEC;s and other senors via NMEA 2000. This saves you from having to run NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 depth and position sensors.

Jim

BIG R JR

IThank-You very Much for your post.....I've been trying to figure this out for a week now....

The motor is being installed at the end of this week... The Gauges (analog or I-Command ) will be next week.
Were waiting on the Dealers I-Command Digital Guru to return from his vacation next Tuesday to discuss price and work out a minimal digital network for my boat.

If your positive about your information I should wait for the Garmin GM 10...That way I could use my current Garmin GPS (NMEA 0183) and Garmin FF (NMEA 0183) and also purchase the I-Command Gauges (NMEA 2000) and run all from the Etec's Motor EMM (NMEA 2000), and make sure all conections are of the Red Connector Types, not blue... RIGHT ??????

Question for you, since it's going to be 3 or 4 months from now to get the Garmin GM 10, and I need to design a Helm Dash next week with Gauges, should I go ahead and buy the I-Command Digital type now or go with the Plain Regular Analog type now, knowing I will get Digital stuff on my GPS and FF when the the Garmin GM 10 is added later ??????........I think I asked that right.

Theres a BIG price difference in the two, more than double. Again I'm wanting a "Minimal Network System"

I think I will ask them to price quote me on two different set-ups:

1---A Miniimal I-Command Digital System Providing the following 12 Functions: rpm, fuel flow, engine temp, engine hours, engine warnings, trim position, battery volts, fuel consumed, barometric pressure, engine status, fuel tank level and fuel remaining.

2--A 6 Gauge Analog System Providing the following 6 Functions: rpm, speed, fuel tank level, battery volts, water pressure, engine hours.

Then in a couple of months add the Garmin GM 10 to either and get GPS and FF digital info too, and don't add depth or postion sensors to the above network it will be incorporated through the GPS and FF units.

I think I got it, man, I'm glad I don't have to make a living doing this stuff.....I admire the ones that do...My Brain's Hurting, think I need a budweiser fast....

Get back to me please.

Thanks,
Big R

fourdfish

Hey Big R- After reading that post, I also got confused! You have time so don't rush it! I would draw it all out and cover your bases so it doesn't come back to bite you later. I myself decided to wait until next year so I might add the network.
Network is pricey and figured I have been waiting awhile anyway! I do have my Garmin GPS , Raymarine Sport pilot and DSC radio networked without any extra cost but it does not give any of the info you can get with the I-Command.
Keep us informed how it works out.

jfwireless

I think there are a couple of ways to approach this gauge issue. First off I think there are many engine monitoring functions that work just fine with analog gauges, and you do not have to flip through multiple screens to do so. Things like battery voltage , water pressure I like fixed gauges to give me real time readings all the time. Of course these can be analog or digital with the smaller LMF-200 digital gauges, that are more cost effective if you buy them from Lowrance rather than Evinrude. I do not see the value in the smaller digital gauges unless you want the minimum number of gauges to monitor your battery/engines. If so than these multifunction smaller gauges make sense.

I am going to buy one LMF-400 I-Command gauge from Evirude for a speedometer/fuel management gauge now. This way I have a gauge I can get multiple screen on for all engine functions should I need them including engine diagnostics, but most of the time I will use for speedometer and fuel management.

The big issue left is tachometer and engine synchronization as I have two engines. I am going to use my existing Evirude tachs as they will work with the ETEC's. You can also get a Garmin or Lowrance NEMA multifunction screen and display this information right on your GPS/Plotter display. Very nice.

So I am only going to use one I-Command gauge for functions I cannot get on my existing analog gauges, fuel management, engine diagnostics and real time engine information. The rest I will use less expensive analog gauges to monitor typical engine battery /functions I like to have dedicated gauges on like battery voltage, tachometer, water pressure. Trim an tilt I will use as a pop of on either the one I-Command gage or Garmin 4210. This pop up will happen only when I hit the engine trim button.

So that is my idea on how to incorporate the new I-Command system. Only for functions I could not get with the standard analog gauges and some POP Up functions

If you need to incorporate NMEA 0183 for position and depth, than you can wait for the new Garmin gauge, or wait for the NMEA 2000 gateway feature coming out on the newer Lowrance and Garmin master display units in 2008. If you are using an older GPS/FF unit not capable of NMEA 2000 gateway functions, than you can wait for the stand alne NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 gateway units coming out next year.

Jim

BIG R JR

Again Thanks Jim, your explanation is very well put together and I almost understand it and how it relates to my situation. Each time I read it, it makes more sence. I going to explore a few other areas and met with my Dealer next week on it and try to design a network on paper that list all the bases I wait to cover, and see if there are any void areas that need futher discussion and attention.

Until then thanks,

Big R

BIG R JR

Hey Jim I took your original post and shorten it down to the above Quotes in your post, this makes sense to me on how your doing your set up....To Summarize--- One Large 4" I-Command Gauge and the rest Analog gauges.... Right ???

I like that alot, however my Dealer tells me I have to go either All Digital or All Analog, No mixing or matching gauges...What's up with that ??? Is that the only way ??? Your's certainly isn't that way ???

I would have been done with the analog installation by now, but was waiting on answers on the digital stuff.

I like your ideas on real life gauges for volts, water pressure, etc. !!! Also when I said I wanted the red color connectors they said it would be the blue ones and only NMEA 2000 stuff would be hooked up to that motor.

I wasn't impressed by the so called Digital Guru, that I have been waiting to see for over a week now...

Still confused and I wait to move forward now. Who did your install, yourself or someone else ???

Thanks,

Big R

jfwireless

Big R

You can not mix the I-Command analog and I-command digital gauges both NMEA 2000 gauges on the same install, but I am told you can mix the older non I-Command analog gauges with either the I-command digital or I-command analog gauges. So for me with an older Evinrude twin motor installation I can use my old gauges used with my year 2000 Evinrude Fitch engines and add additional I-command gauges for additional functionality like fuel management. As I have 9 gauges already installed, why would I replace them. I just want to add functions I do not already have. So the plan is to replace the existing non I-Command analog speedometer with an I-command digital gauge and use it as a multifunction guage, engine real time monitoring, engine diagnostics, speedometer, fuel management, and oil tank level monitoring as I have added oil tank level NMEA 2000 sensors to my new 3 gallon oil tanks. As you can get up to four simultaneous displays on this I-Command digital gauge, all should be just fine.

So my install is different than yours, maybe the engine harness you are getting with your new engine does not support the older analog gauges like mine do?? Just a thought.

Having said that I have not completed this install yet. The engines(Evinrude E-TEC twin 175 HP) are being installed this week by the E=TEC dealer. The wiring and gauges from the previous engines is just being hooked up to the new motors, so all 9 gauges I previously used with the old engines will be used on the new engines to get started up with all the existing wiring cables and harnesses. As I have the four LED smart tachometers, they will work just fine with the new motors along with all the other existing analog gauges according to Evinrude Technical Support.

So as soon as I get my boat back, I will wire up the NMEA network myself and add the new I-Command digital gauge and hook up the new required sensors to the NMEA 2000 backbone. So the NMEA 2000 backbone will run independently from the existing wired up analog gauges through the NMEA 2000 engine interface cable that connects to the engine EMM.

As I move forward I will try and keep you updated so you know how all works out. I will also ask some questions today from my Evinrude dealer to ask Evinrude Technical Support to make sure I am not steering you in the wrong direction.

As for an NMEA 2000 to NMEA 0183 gateway I found a product, but I do not think it is available yet. The product is made by Actisense and it is model number NGW-1 advertised to be able to hook up a NMEA 2000 network now while keeping your current NMEA 0183 devices. The NGW-1 makes it possible to convert NMEA 0183 data into NMEA 2000 data and visa versa. I do not have a price or possible delivery date or even if it works, just some information on what is coming soon. Here is a link to the device.

http://www.actisense.com/HTML/Produc...%201/index.php

I have sent an email to this company asking about price and availablity, hopefully I will hear back soon. This company is in the UK.

Maybe BOE Marine can comment on availablity of this device. It seems like a great product for those of us that have spent lots of money on existing GPS/Chartploters and FF as long as it is cost effective.

One thing to think about is how much power these new digital I-Command gauges draw from the 12 volt system. The old analog gauges used flea power to work, I wonder how much power it takes to keep these new I-Command digital gauges running.

Jim

BIG R JR

Jim
I too found a product from Maretron.com The AT-10 NMEA 2000/NMEA 0183 adapter, manufactured by Simad, is used to translate incoming NMEA 0183 data to NMEA 2000 data or vise versa. MY ONLY PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THAT MY OLD GARMIN GPS AND FF DOES NOT HAVE THE ENGINES OVERLAY SOFTWARE SCREENS IN THEM THAT I NEED. So my older 0183 Garmin equipment is out of the picture for this network....

Now to gauges, I think I'll just go with 5 digital I-Command gauges back in place of where my old analog Gauges were in the dash template. 2 Large 4" Multi Function Gauges and 3 Small 2" Multi Function Gauges. This will be overkill of gauges necessary but would fill up dash holes and leave a better looking dash appearance. Also I will get all engine data I want. I'll just designate the smaller ones for things like Fuel Level, Volts, Water Pressure, etc. like real time old analog gauges. And the larger ones for Tach/Speed/Fuel Flow/pop ups/ etc.

It's not the way I want it, installing 5 multi function gauges when 1 or 2 would be enough...I just don't like plugs in my dash and don't want that either. So I get around 64 Engine Data Functions from my motor and I'll just distribute them through out all gauges and work with that.

I do want this Network System to have the NMEA 2000 RED CONNECTOR KNOBS, and not the blue ones, so I can add to it any Manufactures compatible NMEA 2000 GPS, FF, and Radar one day in the future, not just Lowrance type.

To summarize, Keep old GPS and FF 0183 products and use stand alone as such, and add 5 Digital multi function gauges for the beginning of a new network, and add to that network piece by piece in the future.

I too will be visiting Dealer today and will report back to you later with my findings....

Thanks,
Big R

jfwireless

Big R

I got a message back from Actisense saying the NMEA 200 gateway would be in Beta test in January with full production after the Beta Test is complete. I hear you about the older Garmin GPS and FF not having the engine overlay screens and I have the same problem. But I do not need the engine overlay screens when I have at least a single I-Command gauge as I can all the info I need from this multufunction gauge. I do not need this information in more than one place on my vessel.

What I do need the NMEA 2000 gateway for is to provide GPS positioning data, depth data from the FF, and speed from the GPS. If the NMEA 2000 gateway is cost effective, I can take one of the NMEA 0183 outputs from my Garmon 3010C and convert this data to NMEA 2000 data for input to my NMEA 2000 backbone. This simple device will allow me to not have top replace my GPS or FF for fuel management and depth information. Hopefully my heading data from my heading sensor, and my speed over water paddle wheel information on my FF will also be placed on the NMEA 200o network as all this data is now available and visable on the Garmon 3010C.

Good luck with your new ETEC and thanks for your thoughts

Jim

BIG R JR

Jim it sounds like you were, and are successful with your combination set up. I'm happy for you and hope your able to enjoy all the data that your expecting....It certainly pays to do your due Diligence with all this stuff...

Mine is different, your right about the harness for my motor I must either use the I-Command Digital or standard Analog gauges. No mixing will work for my motor.. So I'm going with the Digital Gauges and continue using my old GPS and FF as stand alone..I just couldn't see putting a new motor on the boat and not utilizing the engines computer.

This past week certainly has opened my eyes to all this Digital, Analog, NMEA 2000, NMEA 0183, GPS/ FF, and the complete plug and play network systems. At least if nothing else I now understand how all this stuff works together and how they all can help me. Seem's like a long road to get to where I'm at, but along the way I started understanding this stuff and very thankful for that.

Thanks,
Big R