battery set up approval

[JOE L]

After reading all I could find on this site, here is how I decided to wire my batteries. I have twin outboards, I am going to have two batteries per motor, 4 total, with on, off,1,2 switch for each motor. #1 battery on each motor for starting,house loads split between port and starboard #2 batteries, battery combiner between #1 & #2 on each side, on off switch to join port and starboard banks just in case, 2 bank charger hooked to #2 batteries.I should be able to leave swithes in # 1 position. Does any one use this set up, or more importantly, can anyone tell me why not to do this before I buy materials this weekend. Your input is greatly appreciated, Thanks, Joe

[finadict]

Here is the diagram for what you described from GW.


I am changing it to isolate the house batteries, the problem is you can drain all 4 batts and your dead in the water. I don't think its a good design, but it works.

[JOE L]

The starting batteries should be isolated from being discharged by using the battery combiner between #1 and #2 batteries, correct??? I am planing on using West marines Combiner 50 on each side. I thought I had this all figured out????????? Are combiners used in the above diagrm? I could not read it very well. Thanks

[CaseyP]

Joe,

I don't think I understand. Sounds like you will have one starting batt and one house batt per motor. If so, what do you plan on using the 1,2,both switch for? What loads will it direct?

Sounds like you want to charge all 4 all the time(maybe not) from the motors. And you want to isolate your starting load from your house/electronics load.

I think you want: Positive shut off for each battery and the ability to combine the batteries for emergencies. And all 4 always get charged.

A drawing will help plan out what switch will do what.

Am I even close?

Casey

[sailfish272]

I have four batteries on my boat. Two are for starting the engine, and either engine can use either battery via a pair of 1-2-Both-Off switches. The other two batteries are wired as one bank for ship's service via an On-Off switch. You may want to consider this as it will keep you from have two seperate "sides" to your ship service, and let you use two big, deep cycles for ship service. I used 225AH batteries for this.

[Chaps]

This is Yandina's diagram for dual engine/multiple bank combiner hook-up. Add your 4th battery to the house battery (lower RH in diagram) with paralleling cables. This system uses simple on/off switches instead of 1-2-both-off switches, lots less confusing IMO.



If this image isn't clear enough go to Yandina's website, find the Combiner 50 link, click on manual for a printable pfd file.
Yandina/west marine combiner link

[This message was edited by Chaps on 03-12-03 at 12:37 PM.]

[finadict]

Depending on your outboards, you may have a battery isolator already. the new f225s have the ability to charge 2 seperate banks of batteries eliminating the need for all the switching and combiners. I know other OB manufactures offer this. By the way for all you F225 owners there is a recall for the replacement of the V-regulator ...

If your OBs don't provide built in battery isolation. check with an RV or autoparts house for a battery isolator... this will allow charging of 2 batts but will isolate the batts from each other so the both.... probably same thing as the combiner but likely 1/2 the cost...

After reading your post I don't know if you want to have 4 batts for your engines or an independant set for your house. If 4 for just engines the diagram from GW will work great. If you want to charge 4 but isolate your 2 starting batts than you will need the isolator/combiner...

[Birdman]

Joe,
That's NOT a good way to do it.

You should simply connect ONE battery to each motor via an on/off switch, called them Port and Starbd battery banks. Then take the other two batteries and strap them together as one battery bank, called House. So you end up with 3 banks (Port, Starbd, and House). Now get a Combiner or Battery Isolator with two inputs and three outputs. Plug each motors charging current to the input terminals on the Combiner/Isolator. then connect each output terminal on the combiner/isolator to each battery bank.

Lastly, get one battery selector switch with Off,1, 2, and Both slections. Connect it's output terminal to one of the motors (by simply jumping it to one of the on/off battery switchs), doesn't matter which one. Connect the 1 terminal to the other motors battery bank, and the 2 terminal to the house battery bank. So, this switch becomes a "Parrallel" switch which allows you to "jump" any or ALL of your batteries together for starting in an emergency.

In summary:
Normal running, you turn both on/off switches to ON, and leave the "Parrallel" selector on off. The combiner/isolator takes care of charging any and all batteries properly regardless of battery switches... You never have to "think" about anything. DONE. When you leave your boat, you simply turn the two on/off battery switchs to off. Done.

No thinking, no worries, no wondering if you should switch battery selctors while running, are my batteries charging???? ....... I don't get while everyone makes this so complicated? It's really very simple. The ONLY question in my mind, is, can you afford a battery isolator or combiner? BUT, if you have a boat, it's expenses.... then you should splurge the extra $100 or $200 and get one, it's just that simple.


EDIT: Just went back and looked at Chaps' diagram, THAT IS IT!!! THAT is how you do it. The only thing I like to add to it is the extra "Parallel" switch which alllows you to jump any/all batteries with the flick of a switch.

Birdman, Capt of

[tpetty]

FINADICT -- Where can I find info on this F225 recall?


I want to make sure my 03 Merc isn't affected?

Thanks in advance..

[finadict]

The dealers just received the recall this week, you should be getting a letter shortly.The recall is for voltage regulators and rectifiers seems they got a bad batch of them.... The indications of the bad vr is about 2000 rpm and above your digital gauges will go start flashing indicating alarm conditions and voltage will be above 16 volts

[This message was edited by finadict on 03-12-03 at 08:34 PM.]

[JOE L]

Thanks for all the replies, I got Chaps diagram off the Yadina website, thats how I will do it with the addition of one more house battery tied in parallel with the other house battery, and use the 1,2 both switch for parallel switch so I can use the house batteries for starting in an emergency. Correct?????? I am planning on using combiners instead of isolaters mainly because my moters(96 mercs) have the starter feed and charging output through the same cable from what I can tell.Seems like combiners would be easier to wire. Any reason why I should use isolators instead??

[Chaps]

Joe, there are no "1-2-both" switches in that Yandina combiner diagram because they are not needed and they potentially introduce confusion and dead batteries all around.

If you look closely you'll see an "off/on" switch for each engine, an "off/on" switch for the house bank that is feeding power to your accessory panel and a rarely used "off/on" switch that provides a means of paralleling the two start batteries in the event of failure of either one.

Paralleling the house bank to the start batteries is not provided for in this layout since such a switch is often either left on by mistake or used incorrectly to continue running house/accessory operations off the start batteries while anchored or drifting which inevitably brings everything down to zero.

The layout as drawn prevents the start batteries from ever being used for anything but starting engines. True, the house bank can't be used to start engines but you have two unmolested start batteries for that.

The combiners will do a better job of charging the house bank than isolators because they allow full charging voltage to flow from engine alternators to the batteries, isolators reduce that voltage by about .7 volts which doesn't sound like much but the difference is significant when charging 12v batteries. Ever notice those finned cases on isolators? That's to get rid of heat (wasted power). Combiners are just a relay so they don't get hot.

This set-up is not for everyone as there is a huge following for the "1-2-both w/isolator" method. I changed to this "off/on w/combiner" method a few years ago and it is much easier to live with IMO and I (or some crew member) can't screw anything up.

28' Maxcat w/twin Honda 225's

[Birdman]

Joe,
You got, except for one thing. The two house batteries are NOT separated with any switch. The are litterally strapped together. Negative terminal to neg terminal, and postive terminal to positive terminal, directly with nothing in between. They basically just become one big battery, and that is exactly how you should think of them.

I think Chaps is mis-interpreting the "parallel" switch, to be used in emergencies. DEFINITELY install this, this is probably the single MOST IMPORTANT part of the setup, trus me. And it is NOT confusing at all. Just leave it OFF, ALWAYS. That's how simple it is. BUT, that one day you are offshore and weather is on the way, and you somehow drained both staring batteries, you simply turn the "parallel" swith to 1, or 2 or even better, both, and whalla, you now have the juice of 4 batteries all tied together as one, to start a motor to get you up and running and home. The motor starts, so you turn that switch right back to OFF. That's it!!

I think Chaps is thinking you will be installing the Off,1,2,Both selector switch between your port and Stbd batteries or something. NO, they will only have simply on/off switchs. And that is normally all you will need to do when you use the boat, turn the 2 on/off switches to ON. When done and leaving the boat, turn them off.

That one day you do use the "parallel" switch, and you WILL use it, trust me, you will come back here to thank me up and down.

PS- I've used mine twice already, and the boat is brand new. I'll try to draw up a simple diagram and post it later today...check back...

Birdman, Capt of

[JOE L]

Birdman,I gues my wording in my last post was a little confusing but I am going to do it exactly as you just described. I have to agree 100 percent about needing to parallel to house bank at some point so I will use the 1,2,both,off switch for my emergency parrallel switch which will remain off at all times except for emergency starts.If you can post that diagram I would appreciate it just to double tripple check myself. Thanks for everyones help. Joe

[JOE L]

Chaps, what type of combiners did you use and where did you get them. Thanks, Joe

[Chaps]

Birdy you are one pursuasive fella! Sure, paralleling the house to the starts is OK but I'll submit it gets more people into trouble than it helps. That's an opinion based on personal experience and observations made during my stint as a responder for Vessel Assist. Can't tell you how many jumps I made to people who inadvertently ran down their start batteries at anchor due to incorrect switch selection (which they always blame on their brother-in-law when he is out of earshot).

Joe, those are West Marine 50's made by Yandina

28' Maxcat w/twin Honda 225's

[Birdman]

Chaps,
LOL!!! Hey, I try, but only when I really think it is important.

I hear ya though, but ussually you see what your talking about when they use the "selector" type switches on the starting batteries, directly. In fact, just take a look at the # of the questions/threads on this forum alone in the last few months on: "How do I run, 1, 2 or Both"? & "Can I switch selector while runnning"? & "Why does my battery drian when...?".

All those questions would be solved if folks would start installing ON/OFF switchs on starting batteries instead of "selector" type switches.

In my case, it should NEVER happen. The "parallel" selector switch simply should NEVER be used. ALWAYS OFF, except that one bad day, you'll be thankfull it's there, as I've been. One thing you can do to if your really worried about it, to minimize any thoughts of a "shipmate" accidently turning it on for some stupid reason (which would be reason to throw them overboard! ), is you can locate it somewhere hidden, away from the other switches. For example, place the port and stbd on/off switchs in plain view, but place the selector switch in the hatch with the batteries.

Anywho, Joe, I'll post a diagram later for ya... check tonight.

Now that is done, have you looked at a Scout yet?

Birdman, Capt of

[inthepocket]

Would their be problem with relocation of baterys? As in my Baterys are located in the transom and I am planning to move them into where my porta pottie is in my walkaround. The distance from the twin 150's to the bathroom area is about 15-18 ft. Would this cause any issues? In my transom I am only able to fit 3 group 25 baterys and I had lots of problems killin baterys last year cause I do most of my fishing at night.

[Chaps]

I would not recommend that your start batteries be located that far from the engines but a house bank can be anywhere, particularly if you are not that concerned that you will be needing to start your engines with the house battery(s) along the lines of the above conversation.

28' Maxcat w/twin Honda 225's

[JOE L]

One more question,please. If I am going to install an on-board charger, should I get a three bank,or get a one bank and let the current flow through the combiners.I'm leaning toward the three bank, what do you guys suggest. thanks again