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Old 03-26-2010, 12:21 PM
  #21    
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You don't need to "fill the gaps" imo. I have used the exact same crimper to crimp roughly 50 lugs on my current boat (repowered once, changed batteries and switches another time) and maybe 15 or 20 on my previous boat in cables sizes of 2/0 through 6/0. Not one has failed or presented any sort of problem. Just whack the shit out of it and put on some good adhesive heat shrink.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:34 PM
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All I would like to know is, why are some pepole against soldering and crimping? like I said, it would not hurt. A hex crimp is superior because of a 360 degree contact area, as oppossed to a single dimpled contact area, the solder would infact give more contact area.
there is a Bench mountable, hammer type Hex crimper avalible.(ancor I belive)
I use a greenlee crimper and do not bother with solder, but before I had a greenlee I would hammer swedge and solder,no call backs yet. Since I am in the buisness it behooved me to buy the proper tool. for a guy who needs to connect 1 crimp? i think the tool he has will suffice. since I know this person is a bit particular I still suspect the lug will be soldered.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
You don't need to "fill the gaps" imo. I have used the exact same crimper to crimp roughly 50 lugs on my current boat (repowered once, changed batteries and switches another time) and maybe 15 or 20 on my previous boat in cables sizes of 2/0 through 6/0. Not one has failed or presented any sort of problem. Just whack the shit out of it and put on some good adhesive heat shrink.
Thanks. Will do, I'm from NY, I'm good at wacking people, ah, err um, I mean lugs!!
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:35 PM
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All I would like to know is, why are some pepole against soldering and crimping? like I said, it would not hurt.
Those that are against it probably don't know how to do it correctly. So, they screw up their own work and then like chicken littles cry to the world that it can't be done, should not be done, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Soldering done right cannot hurt and may help. Certainly it will lower the electrical resistance between the cable and the end terminal and quite possibly could improve the corrosion resistance by filling the voids between the cable and the end terminal.

Oh, I am against soldering and crimping. I am for crimping and then soldering.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:49 PM
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Properly crimping the lug will create a "cold weld" where the lug and cable become essentially one piece. There will be no room for solder and no place for oxidation.
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:33 PM
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Those that are against it probably don't know how to do it correctly. So, they screw up their own work and then like chicken littles cry to the world that it can't be done, should not be done, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Soldering done right cannot hurt and may help. Certainly it will lower the electrical resistance between the cable and the end terminal and quite possibly could improve the corrosion resistance by filling the voids between the cable and the end terminal.

Oh, I am against soldering and crimping. I am for crimping and then soldering.
Bassically what I was trying to point out,You hold an A&P as well correct?
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:53 PM
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You hold an A&P as well correct?
That is correct.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:39 PM
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding:

Solder, done right, can help. Solder, done wrong, can hurt. Somebody with not a lot of experience is more likely to solder incorrectly.

Crimping alone is good enough. Somebody with not a lot of experience can make a good crimp.

Is that right?
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:49 PM
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Hit it pretty hard. Wiggle it. If it moves, hit it again.

It's better to use a heavy hammer if you have one. If you're on the boat, you will need something other than the boat's floor to put under the tool. The bigger, the better. A couple of short pieces of 2X6 lumber should do the trick.



Then heat shrink the connector right up to the flat portion. Use the adhesive lined heat shrink tube, heavy duty.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:49 PM
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how does a rookie crimp 2/0 cable with a hammer style crimper?

The smart rookie does not. Find someone who has a swaging tool (looks kinda like long handled wire cutters), borrow, rent, or hire the use of 'em. The die will be the correct one for the lug, not a 'one size fits all'. May take a little time and effort, but it's the proper way to assemble a permanent cable that supplies the life blood of the boat ...
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:00 PM
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I have the same tool (bought from GenuineDealz) and have used it over the past 2 weekends. I had to shorten the existing cables from the engines so I had to do the crimping on the boat. I used a 2x10 with a piece of 8x8x12. I bought a couple of extra lugs just to practice on. I put the connector in the crimper then held the cable and gave it a good whack. The 1st blow needs to be like you are going to bust a brick. I then rapped it again but without changing the position of the lug. It was really much easier than I anticipated.
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:48 PM
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I once used a swaging tool that I had used for sailboat rigging. Made the prettiest connection youj can imagine.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...44&ci_sku=5657
I've got one of those compound leverage swaging tools that looks like a big set of bolt cutters. I've wondered if that would work for a terminal crimper as well as it crushes the hell out of those swages. I've never had one cable with a triple crimp come loose either so a battery cable with no pull on it should be fine I would think?



This is what the crimped swages look like on steel cable. It also swages stainless tubing onto steel cable. Since they make copper swages I would think it would work fine on the copper lugs as long as the lug fits your swaging tool.

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Old 03-27-2010, 05:18 AM
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I've got one of those compound leverage swaging tools that looks like a big set of bolt cutters. I've wondered if that would work for a terminal crimper as well as it crushes the hell out of those swages. I've never had one cable with a triple crimp come loose either so a battery cable with no pull on it should be fine I would think?




This is what the crimped swages look like on steel cable. It also swages stainless tubing onto steel cable. Since they make copper swages I would think it would work fine on the copper lugs as long as the lug fits your swaging tool.

You can get a tool like that for electrical terminals. The size and shape of the hole (die) is important. "Crushing the hell out of" the terminals is not what we want to do. We want to crush them to a specific size and shape depending on the size of the cable.
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding:

Solder, done right, can help. Solder, done wrong, can hurt. Somebody with not a lot of experience is more likely to solder incorrectly.

Crimping alone is good enough. Somebody with not a lot of experience can make a good crimp.

Is that right?
Solder will wick up the fine strands of the cable, converting that portion to esentially "solid" wire. With continued vibration, this can be a failure point.

A properly done crimp needs no "help".

I don't make this stuff up, it comes from recognized authorities such as the ABYC and USCG.
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:43 AM
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You need one of these. Rotating dies to form a hex crimp.


They are not cheap but they work. The first time.
Do NOT use a swaging tool
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:44 AM
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Get you money back on the crimpper and the eyes!!!! That was the first style I owned it's worthless unless you can rest it on something very solid rap it with at least a 2lb hammer. I own one that is similar to a set of bolt cutters,they are good but you need room to work

Go to a NAPA Auto parts Store and purchase Balkamp Compression terminals of the proper size and style , all you need to install it is the proper size wrenches and seal with shrink tube !! No quessing if you crimped tight enough or if your soldering skills are proficient . These Compression terminals are a very good product and leave nothing to chance. I use them every time I have Had an issue with access.
I have been using them for close to 20yrs now and never a failure .they are so easy to work with I keep an assortment in my road box.

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Old 03-27-2010, 07:26 AM
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ABYC is neither for nor against soldering. Their rule is;

11.14.5.7
Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.

NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.

Notice the exception for battery lugs. It's ok with ABYC if you ONLY solder battery lugs. Lots of people do it that way. You use lugs that are only open on the cable end placed in a vice and partially filled with molten solder while you insert the stripped cable.

Eric
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Old 03-27-2010, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fairbank56 View Post
ABYC is neither for nor against soldering. Their rule is;

11.14.5.7
Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.

EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.

NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.

Notice the exception for battery lugs. It's ok with ABYC if you ONLY solder battery lugs. Lots of people do it that way. You use lugs that are only open on the cable end placed in a vice and partially filled with molten solder while you insert the stripped cable.

Eric
Thank you Eric.

I do not see where the law says anything at all about the use of solder versus crimping. Can someone show me applicable language?

ABYC is purely advisory in nature. It is just a recommendation. As noted, they are not saying "don't do it". They merely provide a suggestion as to how it should be done if so.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Solder will wick up the fine strands of the cable, converting that portion to esentially "solid" wire. With continued vibration, this can be a failure point.
Quote:
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.
I don't understand the meaning of these statements.

If the crimp is done correctly the wires are not at all flexible in the lug so you have a junction between solid conductor and stranded that is a possible fatigue point.

The solder, either on a crimped or non-crimped lug prevents flexing in the same way so you still have a junction between solid and stranded with just the same risk of fatigue. Even if it "wicks" up due to bad soldering, you still have a junction between solid and stranded.

What should be pointed out is NEVER solder the end of the cable and then crimp it. The crimping process relies on the wires "flowing" into all the crevices in a similar way to solder filling it. BUT if the wires are soldered before crimping they won't "flow" and you get many cavities between the lug and the wire which reduces conductivity and provides pockets for corrosion.
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:31 AM
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I have made up many battery cables using the bench and swaging tool available at any West Marine store! Just go down there with your cable and lugs and they have a table mounted large swaging tool that can be used to swage life line fittings(for sailboats), or any other crimp style fittings. This always worked great -- only hangup is when I ran anchor windlass 00 cable forward and then had to shorten cable at the windlass. Now I couildn't go back to West Marine since the cable was already in the boat( and 40 ft of that cable weighs a ton--not about to remove it to shorten! Had to borrow a pro's AMP crimper (about $200 tool) to do that last lug!

BTW, never had a battery cable made up at West fail me in over 20 years!

Good luck!

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