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Someone who uses the term "consumer electronics" on this site doesn't have all his critical faculties engaged. There is no such thing. Marine electronics represent such a tiny market that there is no possibility of economy of scale. Garmin may build 20 times as many units as Raymarine, and 50 times as many as Furuno, but those numbers are irrelevant. Economy of scale in electronics kicks in when its profitable to set up robotic assembly, with high speed lines spitting out carloads of components. We ain't that important!
But its silly for us to talk facts, this is a strictly emotional issue, the good-enoughs versus the overkills. IF (note the big IF) a company delivered products with a failure rate higher that 1%, they would be flamed off the internet, something that seems to be happening to Lowrance. Consumer Electronics Manufacturers believe they are spending too much on design and quality control if they have less than 3% returns. Are there ANY reports that Garmin is worse than Raymarine or Furuno? Before you start huffing and puffing, think about it: the answer to that question requires a big chunk of real numbers, or the personal experience of individuals with equal exposure to the products in question, which is highly unlikely. I haven't heard of anyone here who is qualified to make a fair comparison.
Instead, we pop up here claiming that what we have is the best. It has to be because we are too savvy to buy anything else. Someone who doesn't have what we have is therefor stupid, inexperienced, ill-advised or drives a Ford. That's pretty childish isn't it?
Daugherty's Fifth Law states "When a Forum String Reaches Three pages it has degenerated to sophomoric name calling and is a criminal burden on all those mild-mannered electrons called in to work overtime."
__________________ If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
Sandy, with all due respect, someone who bought pencils for the gubberment isn't exactly an industry expert here.
If you had ever designed electronics, and brought a product through a manufacturing lifecycle, and lived within market requirements as well as costs to produce, then you would have some more inteligent comments. Maybe your ex is an ex because you couldn't make any sense?
I'm being ridiculous, and it was only a joke, so don't take it personally. But that is how your posts come across. I'm just saying.
But, you can use whatever term you like. It seems to "me" that the Garmin products are built to a lower standard than RM or Furuno. Take them apart and look. The cost to produce a product can be kept low by using lower cost components, cheaper assembly methods, and lower reliability designs.
And if you do that correctly, the end products look every bit as good as one made to higher standards. They just don't last as long, or hold up as well over time.
But that may be just fine. Just as not every employee at the pentagon needs military grade computers (COTS works just fine since they are just office workers), not every boater needs commercial grade electronics.
Heck, even commercial fisherman can live with lower grade tools for a while. But as a family elder used to wisely say, some people can't afford to use anything but the very best - because buying cheaper stuff will cost you more in the long run.
So if you like your Garmin gear, and it works for you, then you are just like me (I own top-end Garmin gear, and I'd buy it again for me).
But I don't pretend my minivan can can compete in the baja 500 either.
__________________
Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
It seems to "me" that the Garmin products are built to a lower standard than RM or Furuno.
I won't comment on Furuno, as I haven't owned any Furuno products recently. The Furuno prod's I've researched and looked at closely while shopping seems built very well, and there software is robust (aka, works, as opposed to what you see in Lowrance stuff).
BUT, I would not say Garmin's products are manufactured to a lower standard to Raymarine in a MILLION years. That is a LAUGH, really!! Care to see my list of RMA's for the past 10 years for my RM products? And a few of those NEVER worked, ever. I have yet to have a Garmin product fail (knock knock knock!!). Any product, for any reason. My Garmin products keep getting better with better software, but I've never had one fail.
In my opinion, Garmins products are light years ahead RM products in terms of manufacturing "standard". And I'm NOT talking about what they do, or how they work, or which GUI is better... I'm talking hardware and software out of box, weather it works as advertised, and doesn't fail.
In a few months (weeks?) someone else will basically post this same question and this circular arguement will begin again. And the replies will be the same until it degenerates into a "my dog's better then your dog" discussion.
So I'd like to get in the last word..................
Instead of being repetative,I will ask a question as the O.P did.
I TOO am looking to replace electronics and can't get two constructive answers in a row.
If the dash is 10.5 x28 inches and the budjet is 3000.00.- 4000.00
What GPS and DEPTH FINDER would be best,from all three of the companies inquired about?The depth finder must have a 1kw transducer.Must read DEPTH, NOT necessarily bottom FISH to 2000 feet without a question.This is used in S.E Florida and in humid conditions,warm water,90% in the open ocean.
IF SOMEONE CAN BE SPECIFIC WITH MODELS AND RATIONAL THOUGHTS , SCREENS CAN BE FROM 8-12 INCHES AND NOT ALL TOUCH SCREENS, THIS COULD BE TURNED INTO A PRODUCTIVE THREAD ONCE AGAIN.
Thanks for time and efforts.
__________________ NO REGRETS GRADY WHITE 306 BIMINI,with hard top Rupp Radials Smith Carbon Fiber Outrigger 15ft poles-- 2007 SUZUKI 225 4 STROKES 16x18.5 x3 suzuki propps.5750 RPM AT 44 MPH (GPS MEASURED)HDS-10/P79 IN HULL DUCER Bennett tabs..
Last edited by 1NO REGRETS; 11-09-2009 at 10:36 AM.
Reason: change
Instead of being repetative,I will ask a question as the O.P did.
I TOO am looking to replace electronics and can't get two constructive answers in a row.
If the dash is 10.5 x28 inches and the budjet is 3000.00.- 4000.00
What GPS and DEPTH FINDER would be best,from all three of the companies inquired about?The depth finder must have a 1kw transducer.Must read DEPTH, NOT necessarily bottom FISH to 2000 feet without a question.This is used in S.E Florida and in humid conditions,warm water,90% in the open ocean.
IF SOMEONE CAN BE SPECIFIC WITH MODELS AND RATIONAL THOUGHTS , SCREENS CAN BE FROM 8-12 INCHES AND NOT ALL TOUCH SCREENS, THIS COULD BE TURNED INTO A PRODUCTIVE THREAD ONCE AGAIN.
Thanks for time and efforts.
__________________ NO REGRETS GRADY WHITE 306 BIMINI,with hard top Rupp Radials Smith Carbon Fiber Outrigger 15ft poles-- 2007 SUZUKI 225 4 STROKES 16x18.5 x3 suzuki propps.5750 RPM AT 44 MPH (GPS MEASURED)HDS-10/P79 IN HULL DUCER Bennett tabs..
You're obviously fishing, get a C120 Wide, Street price is around $2800, you get $500 back on a rebate if you get it before the end of the month, AND you get a free SR100 Weather Module. You pay around $600 for the DSM300 module, and then you're at $2,900 but you still need the 1KW ducer. Figure either the B164 or B260 at around $850, you're at $3,750 with a 12'' screen that gives you weather, chartplotting, and a highly superior fishfinder to the Garmin option. That is indisputable. What you should do however is step it up to the Platinum Plus 906 for the Southeast and Bahamas, that will put you right around $4K. You're spending more than the Garmin would cost you, but not a whole lot more and the difference in fishfinding and cartography is worth that much more, nevermind the ability to get sea surface temp and NEXRAD feeds from the SR100. Just make sure you buy an extra SeatalkHS cable.
If you are going to get SST with weather, Sirius has far and away the better SST charting. XM just about sucks. Actually, I take that back, XM does suck for SST. XM is good for nexrad though.
Even though they are one company now, the systems aren't merged. Garmin uses XM, Raymarine uses Sirius.
__________________
Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
You're obviously fishing, get a C120 Wide, Street price is around $2800, you get $500 back on a rebate if you get it before the end of the month, AND you get a free SR100 Weather Module. You pay around $600 for the DSM300 module, and then you're at $2,900 but you still need the 1KW ducer. Figure either the B164 or B260 at around $850, you're at $3,750 with a 12'' screen that gives you weather, chartplotting, and a highly superior fishfinder to the Garmin option. That is indisputable. What you should do however is step it up to the Platinum Plus 906 for the Southeast and Bahamas, that will put you right around $4K. You're spending more than the Garmin would cost you, but not a whole lot more and the difference in fishfinding and cartography is worth that much more, nevermind the ability to get sea surface temp and NEXRAD feeds from the SR100. Just make sure you buy an extra SeatalkHS cable.
Took that C90Wide plunge myself earlier this year and no regrets. Widescreen is the ticket if it fits. View split screen fish/chart or nice full screen sonar trailing way back behind the boat. I'm seeing good deals on E120s wiht DSM300s also. But nothing touches the C120W rebate.
Just for kicks. I saved over $700 going with the DSM30 and the P66 depth/speed/temp transom mount ducer. Could have gone with a B60 thru hullI (depth/temp), but I wanted speed as well. And I don't fish in more than 300' so the 600 watts has worked awesome. I'm sure the die-hards will say spring for the 1000 watt DSM300.
That was a bit abrasive Gerg, and inaccurate. I bought electronics. I bought the Agency's GPS's, both handheld and Surveyor's, I bought or reccommended all our Cameras, field computers, satellite communications, and a bit of our Lab equipment. If a gadget is built to last 20 years (think Hewlett Packard or DEC) and the technology is revolutionized every 24 months, what has that extra price gotten you? A land fill full of precious metals and precision assembly.
A ten year old Garmin is still as reliable today as a Furuno bought at the same time, but neither have WAAS, AIS, color charts, radar overlays, etc. They are equally outdated. Garmins don't break, they are supported as well or better than Furunos, and they bring a higher ROI in resale, ease of use, and economy of operation.
There is only one thing gold plated gadgets do for you; they instill a possibly illusory sense of well being based on no more than the steep price you paid, and what your wise old uncle had to say. An they have a nice heavy feel to them. So now Garmin makes them heavier. Thanks a lot.
__________________ If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
That was a bit abrasive Gerg, and inaccurate. I bought electronics. I bought the Agency's GPS's, both handheld and Surveyor's, I bought or reccommended all our Cameras, field computers, satellite communications, and a bit of our Lab equipment. If a gadget is built to last 20 years (think Hewlett Packard or DEC) and the technology is revolutionized every 24 months, what has that extra price gotten you? A land fill full of precious metals and precision assembly.
A ten year old Garmin is still as reliable today as a Furuno bought at the same time, but neither have WAAS, AIS, color charts, radar overlays, etc. They are equally outdated. Garmins don't break, they are supported as well or better than Furunos, and they bring a higher ROI in resale, ease of use, and economy of operation.
There is only one thing gold plated gadgets do for you; they instill a possibly illusory sense of well being based on no more than the steep price you paid, and what your wise old uncle had to say. An they have a nice heavy feel to them. So now Garmin makes them heavier. Thanks a lot.
Do you have much hands-on marine electronics experience away from Garmin hardware? You make this out to be so black-and-white: status-seeking idiots spend tons more to get Furuno equipment that is no better in performance, smart guys go with Garmin and save big bucks.
That is very far from reality. Consumer Furuno equipment is maybe 15-25% more than similar Garmin stuff and the radar and sounder performance particularly is visibly much better even to a novice user, let alone someone who knows how to tune them properly. Your gratuitous (and "equally abrasive") insults don't change the reality even if they make you feel superior because you did not buy "gold-plated" equipment that actually does work better and doesn't cost all that much more.
That is very far from reality. Consumer Furuno equipment is maybe 15-25% more than similar Garmin stuff and the radar and sounder performance particularly is visibly much better even to a novice user, let alone someone who knows how to tune them properly.
You sure about that? My Garmin radar blows away the Furuno. The GSD22 with the new software is just as good, RM's or Furuno's sounders. As I said earlier in this thread, they all have the same basic features now, so what it comes down to is 2 things: Ease of use and Price, in that order. Garmin is running away with it right now. Hopefully somebody catches up so we consumers have some competition.
I wish I had some of your jobs where you get to sit and whine on the internet all day about which brand of electronics are better. Make sure you all get up and walk around, wouldn't want any of you to develop bedsores on your ass.
I have only had furuno for last 8 years never have had any problems with it. tech suport is very good. I would not buy any thing but furuno. I have the bottom finder fcv1100 and i have never seen a better one and dont no of one.( it was $4000 with trans thow)furuno the best.
I wish I had some of your jobs where you get to sit and whine on the internet all day about which brand of electronics are better. Make sure you all get up and walk around, wouldn't want any of you to develop bedsores on your ass.
Well, I for one get paid very good bucks to stand around all day and whine about which techno-gizmo is better and why. I also get paid for improving those gizmos.
Usually, I'm heavily influenced by who pays those big bucks, and I'm not ashamed to say so.
I love that job.
In this case, nobody is paying me. I'll entertain offers however.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
On my last boat I installed a full garmin system, 3010c, 4kw dome radar and the black box fishfinder. All in all I was happy with the way the system worked. The plotter and bluechart is the best I have had. All three had to go back for repair however. The 3010c the coating came off the screen, fixed for free. A year later the radar and fisfinder both took a dump which garmin repaired for free out of warranty. On my current boat I have a northstar 6100 which is also a very nice plotter. It does not do all of the things the garmin does but you can tell its made better. Feels more commerical grade to me. I also have a 8 year old furuno 48 mile radar and furuno 1kw fishfinder both are CRT tubes and still work perfect.
-- 2007 SUZUKI 225 4 STROKES 16x18.5 x3 suzuki propps.5750 RPM AT 44 MPH (GPS MEASURED)
Bennett tabs.. 
