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Battery Managment Gauge, Switches and Batteries...
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This is what I run with 2 start batteries and 2 house batteries wired in parallel for the house bank (because I use electric reels often). I have had the BEP system and this set up now on the new boat. I prefer this set up because it allows you to parallel the batteries in any combination in an emergency situation. It will charge the starts first and then switch to charge the house bank when the starts are fully charged. You also need only a single bank trickle charger hooked to either bank to charge everything...the voltage relays read each battery and adjust flow accordingly.
Greg,
The Blue Sea system/config you posted does not allow for paralleling any combo of the 3 battery banks.
If you install the BEP 2 engine, 3 battery bank cluster which has 3 switches and 2 combiners, you get the same result (can parallel the house + one start, OR, parallel the 2 starts). But, if you simply add one on/off battery switch to the system, you can then parallel the house to the other start00000000 which gives you any and all combo's of emergency starting.
I think that is important too. Cause you KNOW the battery that goes bad, you need to isolate in an emergency is going to be the one battery that is on the parallel switch causing issues. Murphy is always onboard!!
Not true...I had BEP 3 switch cluster/2 VSR's on my last boat. If both VSR's fail and mine did....you cannot parallel the house and start banks. With the blue seas I posted you can parallel the starts....or the starts and house.....or parallel all. True the blue seas won't allow a combination in any order but it will allow the parallel of the house and start....which the BEP will not. So if you lose both VSR's you ar SOL without jumper wires to scab in and provide charge for you house system. Been there and done that with BEP and called them to verify they haven't changed the sytem to correct this before I installed the Blue Seas.
Why would you ever want to parallel two batteries for starting? If one battery is down then just switch to the battery that has the higher voltage. One battery at a higher value, say 12.4 volts, is better than two batteries paralled at a lesser voltage, say 12.2. This assumes that each battery independantly has the necessary CA rating.
Not true...I had BEP 3 switch cluster/2 VSR's on my last boat. If both VSR's fail and mine did....you cannot parallel the house and start banks. With the blue seas I posted you can parallel the starts....or the starts and house.....or parallel all. True the blue seas won't allow a combination in any order but it will allow the parallel of the house and start....which the BEP will not. So if you lose both VSR's you ar SOL without jumper wires to scab in and provide charge for you house system. Been there and done that with BEP and called them to verify they haven't changed the sytem to correct this before I installed the Blue Seas.
Greg,
First, I was not comparing the BEP vs the Blue Sea units. My comment had nothing to do with which brand cluster you installed, it was based on the description of your install, and based on that, and your own admision in your response above, I'm still correct in stating you do not have the ability to parallel any combo. That's all I was pointing out.
Couple things:
1. Why and HOW would you ever loose a VSR, and worse, TWO VSR's????? I've herd of one VSR/ACR/Combiner EVER goig bad, EVER. And that was one that Glen (from THT) reported failed via a hard short if I recall. Other than that, never herd of one failing. I'ts a pretty simple device. Yanda on THT, who makes and sells one, recently stated he has NEVER had a failure come back in something like 14 years since he warranties them basically forever. So how they hell did you loose two?
2. With my BEP cluster, I can parallel ANY, and ALL batteries and combos. I simply added one more external (external to the cluster) battery switch, and that gives me that ability. I'm sure you can do the exact same thing with the Blue Sea's.
3. To the other poster asking why you would parallel the two start batteries: Because the 2 start batteries are isolated, one to each motor, so if one goes dead, you need to parallel the other one to that motor to get it started, assuming the house bank is also dead. Many boats do not have a 1/2/3 switch as your probably picturing/thinking about.
The simple solution to add a battery is to buy a Blue Sea "add a battery" Dual circuit System, pn 7650. This costs about 90 bucks and includes a Dual circuit battery switch ("perco") and an automatic combiner. This blister pak includes a e5511 switch and a 120 amp combiner (SI-series, automatic relay pn 7610) . To this add some cables and a battery and you are done , simple! You can add just one battery or two paralleled together into the single switch. Just install per the direction in the kit. After installation, i would connect all the house stuff, (electronics, bait pumps, wash down and bilge pumps to the proper terminal on the 5110 switch, just like the diagrams in this kit show.
You will only have a normal connection to one of the start batteries but with the choices of batt 1, batt 2 or all on your existing two battery switches you can manage (change) charging of your house battery if needed.
Anyway, this is a simple fix for a house battery and the combiner will connect to the charging source when it's voltage is above 13+ volts and it will not let the house battery users run either of your starting batteries down. My own experience with these Blue Sea parts has been good, For now one house battery is good but if you do overnighters running your bait pump, electronics and stereo you might want two house batteries. One house battery is no problem for day trips unless you have electric reels. I think I saw that you were putting f250's on your boat? I think these motors may have a built in house battery charging circuit.? My DF 300's do but I already had the discrete combiner setup so I let that feature alone. You can save some money if you use the F250's house charging system if that is as feature your engines have. Anyway, good luck on your boat rigging.
I had terrible service from my BEP system......2 failed VSR's and 3 crappy disentegrated switch handles. Last point...you had to add a switch to the BEP cluster in order for it to have redundancy in the event of VSR failure. While not a big deal, it should already be part of the cluster. That simple fact addressed by Blue Seas system and the poor service I got from a very well maintained switch panel made me look for an alternative on the current boat. You obviously thought yours through and added what was necessary for a good switch system...the average user and poster is not going to have the wherewithall and experience to do this and is why I was trying to point out the shortcomings of the BEP panel (not the improved version you put together) vs the Blue Seas system.
Maybe I got a bad run of stuff....because like you I have not heard of many failures though I know of some other failed single VSR's.....my luck!
I went with one start battery and two house batteries separated by a Blue Sea solid state battery isolator with a Blue Sea off/on/battery combiner switch. I was initially looking at a 4 battery system.
1. Why and HOW would you ever loose a VSR, and worse, TWO VSR's?????
My VSR just went bad. I was out running the other day and one of my 5208's turned off, then the other. Had to switch to emergency parallel on my blue sea switch to charge the house circuit.
[quote=knotreel;2562788]The simple solution to add a battery is to buy a Blue Sea "add a battery" Dual circuit System, pn 7650. This costs about 90 bucks and includes a Dual circuit battery switch ("perco") and an automatic combiner. This blister pak includes a e5511 switch and a 120 amp combiner (SI-series, automatic relay pn 7610) .
Knotreel is Absolutely right on the money. Go to Blues seas home page and look it up should find a diagram. you can Parallel your house battery and go with one Engine battery.
I had terrible service from my BEP system......2 failed VSR's and 3 crappy disentegrated switch handles. Last point...you had to add a switch to the BEP cluster in order for it to have redundancy in the event of VSR failure. While not a big deal, it should already be part of the cluster. That simple fact addressed by Blue Seas system and the poor service I got from a very well maintained switch panel made me look for an alternative on the current boat. You obviously thought yours through and added what was necessary for a good switch system...the average user and poster is not going to have the wherewithall and experience to do this and is why I was trying to point out the shortcomings of the BEP panel (not the improved version you put together) vs the Blue Seas system.
Maybe I got a bad run of stuff....because like you I have not heard of many failures though I know of some other failed single VSR's.....my luck!
Ok, one thing I'm not understanding is, you keep saying the "blue sea" system doesn't have that shortcoming the BEP system does...". Well, the Blue Sea has more shortcomings, because in reality, it doesn't even really exist. Blue Sea does NOT make a cluster. You have to make the entire "cluster" yourself, using parts purchased separately (2 VSR's, 4 Bat switches, wires...). the cluster from BEP has everything you need for most boaters, and wimps/safety minded folks like you and me, simply need to add 1 more battery switch to allow any combo of emergency paralleling. You also need to add that extra battery switch to the BlueSea system as well, in addition to piecing together the entire system.
As for quality of them, me thinks they are about the same. A battery switch is a battery switch, and a VSR/ACR/Combiner is a combiner.
So in conclusion, I simply think the BEP cluster is better, because all you have to do is connect your batteries to it, and add a 2nd parallel switch if you wish. As opposed to figuring it all out, and making a bunch of small 1 gage jumper wires to connect it all up.
SO that means i should add another perko two batter switch? So I would have have three two battery switches and three batteries?
yes, you can do it with battery switches but that's the way mine was wired from the factory and it was confusing as hell and didn't work all that well as there was no real good way to isolate start and house banks. Finally got irritated enough at it to replace it with the BEP cluster and it is night and day from the 2 perko switch method. I did not add an extra switch to parallel the house and start banks but I could do that on the water in about 30 seconds with the cables I have hooking all this stuff together anyway. My system is 4 batts, 2 start and 2 house. The 2 house batts are always paralled to each other via cables and all the grounds are common, so all it takes to parallel all 4 batts together is to put the BEP switch in parallel and hook a single cable from one house + to one start + terminal.
Also no problems at all with the BEP stuff. Has been in the boat for several years now and still absolutely thrilled with it.
I don't want to get in you guy's side discussion, but Blue Seas does make a "kit" see my post above. As to which is better BEP or BlueSea well I don't know. I can say my Blue Sea combiner (or as you say VSR/ACR/Combiner) has worked flawlessly as well as another I installed on a friend's high use charter boat. And I do believe that you only need one combiner for two (or more) outboard engines as the gang of battery switches allow a bunch of different ways for the combiner to be connected to the charging source.
Of course all this is pretty much moot as he probably has a seperate charging wire from each of his engines which negates the need for a combiner.
Greg, LOL, I don't know, but there must be something!!
knotreel, they only make the "add a battery" thingy. That is just a package with a battery switch, and a VSR in it. By cluster, I'm referring to a complete system for 3 bats, 2 engines like this:
I haven't had this system long enought to comment on longevity yet, but I did have a BlueSea switch fail. But Blue sea replaced it in 30 seconds, no questions asked, and didn't even ask for a receipt, or return on the bad switch. So I hvae no problem with Blue sea, I like em! I just think they need to make a "system", like the above which is pre-wired... I don't think they do, do they?
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Battery Managment Gauge, Switches and Batteries... 
