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I am sorry if I wasn't clear about the 121.5 signal. These guys are all correct. The 121.5 only EPIRBS are illegal. Our satellites do not even listen for them any more. An EPIRB gives out both 406 and 121.5 mhz signals. The satellites listen to the 406 signal and that give us a ballpark position (or closer if it is a GPIRB). Once I have flown to that area, we track the beacon on the 121.5 side using directional finding equipment. The HC 144 has the new DF430 system onboard. DF stands for direction finding. The plane is absolutely brand new and just started standing the watch full time in Mobile, AL last week , next is Miami. This plane can track a 406 signal and actually plot it on a moving map for me in the plane. Very cool stuff, we are still working with the software to make it better, but this is the future. We will see 121.5 signals in EPIRBS for a long time because as it was said, a lot of commercial outfits put those transmitters on lifejackets for man overboard situations.
I have an EPIRB (if you don't and you go offshore you are crazy). Mine is a GlobalFix iPro Cat II with built in GPS.
Since yours is over a decade old... you might want to read this. I just copied it from the Louisiana Sportsman website.
If you have an emergency position indicating radio beacon (EPIRB) for your boat and it’s old, you need to take a quick look at it. EPIRB’s that operate on 121.5 mHz or 243 mHz will become paperweights after February 1, 2009. The search and rescue satellite aided tracking (SARSAT) satellites will not process those frequencies after that date.
The move to change EPIRBs and personal locator beacons (PLBs) over to 406 mHz has been under way since 1999, but the new frequency is only one of several improvements to the system. New 406 mHz units have 5 watts of transmitter output power, making them much more likely to be received under difficult conditions than the 0.1-watt output of older models. And coverage of the COSPAS-SARSAT system is now global instead of covering only two-thirds of the earth. The older transmitters sometimes only limited a search area to 500 square miles. New units not equipped to send your GPS coordinates still give the satellites an accurate enough position to limit a search to just 25 square miles. A new 406 mHz unit connected to an operating GPS receiver at the time of the emergency, or a unit with a GPS receiver built in, usually limit the search to within 300 feet! New EPIRBs and PLBs transmit an I.D. number that is matched to your registration information during the rescue process. The information gives the responding team your name, a description of your boat and a telephone number that can be checked to make sure the unit hasn’t been accidentally triggered. This reduces the likelihood that the nearest rescue crew will be out chasing a false alarm when you actually need them. When you activate a beacon with GPS capability, the first thing it does is find your position and add your coordinates to its emergency message. It then begins broadcasting your alert to two satellite constellations. The closest is the Low Earth Orbit Search and Rescue (LEOSAR) system consisting of two Russian satellites about 621 miles up and two U.S. satellites about 528 miles above the earth. The four satellites are in north/south polar orbits meaning that they pass over the north and south poles in orbits spread far enough apart to cover the whole planet. Each orbit takes about 100 minutes, and each satellite stays in view from a point on the earth’s surface for about 15 minutes. LEOSAR satellites use Doppler Shift technology to fix your beacon’s position, and that can take more than one pass to get the job done. Your alert message reaches the second satellite system instantly, the geostationary search and rescue (GEOSAR) constellation of three satellites in orbit over the equator. Geostationary means that they are matching the earth’s speed of rotation and appear to be stationary overhead. The GEOSAR satellites are spaced evenly around the equator so they can “see” the entire planet. Both satellite systems pass your emergency message to a local user terminal on the ground that forwards it to the appropriate mission-control center. The center adds your registration information, and sends your message on to the rescue coordination center. Here, who you are, where you are and what your boat looks like are all put together and passed on to the emergency rescue agency closest to your position. The rescuers head straight for your Doppler-estimated position or (better yet) to your GPS coordinates, and then zero-in on your beacon transmissions. So if you have an old EPIRB, check its frequency and replace it if necessary. If you don’t have an EPIRB or a PLB on your boat, this would be a great time to consider getting one.
I am sorry if I wasn't clear about the 121.5 signal. These guys are all correct. The 121.5 only EPIRBS are illegal. Our satellites do not even listen for them any more. An EPIRB gives out both 406 and 121.5 mhz signals. The satellites listen to the 406 signal and that give us a ballpark position (or closer if it is a GPIRB). Once I have flown to that area, we track the beacon on the 121.5 side using directional finding equipment. The HC 144 has the new DF430 system onboard. DF stands for direction finding. The plane is absolutely brand new and just started standing the watch full time in Mobile, AL last week , next is Miami. This plane can track a 406 signal and actually plot it on a moving map for me in the plane. Very cool stuff, we are still working with the software to make it better, but this is the future. We will see 121.5 signals in EPIRBS for a long time because as it was said, a lot of commercial outfits put those transmitters on lifejackets for man overboard situations.
No need at all to say your sorry. You have explained yourself perfect . Now I understand .
Thanks for all your help.
__________________ Fountain 31TE...... Hydra Sports 21 Bay...... Dodge 3500 Camping unit "Gone Fishing"..... Tinker Toy..... Sunset Point Nixonton NC
A 406 Epirb is detected almost immediately by the GEOSAR satellites. Being registered they will first try and confirm (telephone) that you are in fact in trouble based on your registration details.
If you have GPS equiped Epirb then they will also have your location to within 150 metres and time then depends on how far somebody has to go to get you (be it boat or aircraft).
If not GPS model then it could take some time for the orbiting LEOSAR satellites of the system to locate your position.
The info you gentlemen have posted has been like a easy to read book. Knew what the units did and understood the basic function but now knowing how all that happens is the difference between night and day. My question was with the "HIT" as I didn't know how that tracked you but after the pilot explained about now with the new units they have a locked in Fix like on a normal gps waypoint, and Kerry you last post about which sat does what, I can see where there should be no excuse for someone to be lost and not own one of them. Now I understand it. I enjoy some of the nicer things in life but like some, there is still a lot of new to me on offshore in all of its directions from fishing to the post we have just covered. I admire the ones that in there business world have come that far they can own the 45+ sportfish, and enjoy the post from the rest of us with our hats turned backwards enjoying the game. No question is a dumb question for those that are still learning, and please always give us the time to help us understand what you already know. You guys are how we learn.
LUKE FOSTER
__________________ Fountain 31TE...... Hydra Sports 21 Bay...... Dodge 3500 Camping unit "Gone Fishing"..... Tinker Toy..... Sunset Point Nixonton NC
Last edited by liveaboard74; 10-03-2009 at 06:57 PM.
I just purchased this PLB from BOE on friday. It goes to the same satellites as the larger units, but only last 24 hours, not 48. Really, for the price of one full tank of fuel it is crazy not to carry one.
I am sorry if I wasn't clear about the 121.5 signal. These guys are all correct. The 121.5 only EPIRBS are illegal. Our satellites do not even listen for them any more. An EPIRB gives out both 406 and 121.5 mhz signals. The satellites listen to the 406 signal and that give us a ballpark position (or closer if it is a GPIRB). Once I have flown to that area, we track the beacon on the 121.5 side using directional finding equipment. The HC 144 has the new DF430 system onboard. DF stands for direction finding. The plane is absolutely brand new and just started standing the watch full time in Mobile, AL last week , next is Miami. This plane can track a 406 signal and actually plot it on a moving map for me in the plane. Very cool stuff, we are still working with the software to make it better, but this is the future. We will see 121.5 signals in EPIRBS for a long time because as it was said, a lot of commercial outfits put those transmitters on lifejackets for man overboard situations.
Aircoastie. With the new 406 epirbs that are regerstered with the owners name a phone number, address with the gps location on them, once you have the first hit,, you have already covered how the steps work. Do we need the 48 hour or will the 24 be ok. For 90% of us we will never go more than 60 miles offshore. In Elizabeth City NC I'm right on top of the CG bace. What would be the longest after the epirb was set off would you think it would take to be on top of us with a some type of service , plane or HC. I'm sure you know this question is directed to the 24 or 48 epirb units.
__________________ Fountain 31TE...... Hydra Sports 21 Bay...... Dodge 3500 Camping unit "Gone Fishing"..... Tinker Toy..... Sunset Point Nixonton NC
I thought about the same thing before ordering. You can get TWO of the Aqualinks for the price of one larger EPIRB. I felt I could have one on my belt if I fell over while fishing alone and one on a PFD. if disaster happened you activate one and when it dies you can activate the second.
The big difference is with a PLB they are looking for a person , with an EPIRB it is the boat that is registered.
In reality, if they can't find me within 24 hours with know GPS coordiantes I am in deep do do..
There is NO replacement for an EPIRB. A PLB is NOT an EPIRB. A PLB, to my knoweldge will send a signal for about 24 hours while a EPIRB will transmit for at least 48 hours. I am not knocking a PLB as it is a great back-up to an EPIRB. Anyone who travels offshore without an EPIRB is lacking something essential between the ears IMO. I realize the previous sentence will rattle some folks however do your homework before you flame away. A PLB is a great device however it is NOT a substitute for an EPIRB. Anyone who advises against an EPIRB or any other safety equipment is a fool.
Except for 24 hours vs 48 hours I can not see the difference between the PLB and the EPIRB class2
SPOT is not and EPIRB, but if you read the specs on the 2882 it sure reads like one.
ACR AquaLink 406 GPS PLB - 2882
Head offshore with confidence with the ACR Aqualink 406 GPS PLB.
With three levels of integrated signal technology - GPS positioning, a powerful 406 MHz signal and 121.5 MHz homing capability - the ACR AquaLink 406 quickly and accurately relays your position to a worldwide network of Search and Rescue satellites, reducing search time and increasing your chances of survival. It's reliable signaling technology that has saved more than 25,000 lives since 1982.
The two recent examples where I think a PLB on your belt could have helped were the four NFL players here in Tampa and teh three guys in Texas that drifted for 10 days. Both stories said that the boat flipped in a matter of seconds once they realized they were in trouble.
While and class 2 EPIRB is nice to have and if I ventured far off shore I would probably get one, this ACR PLB in not a toy and should work just as well.
There is NO replacement for an EPIRB. A PLB is NOT an EPIRB. A PLB, to my knoweldge will send a signal for about 24 hours while a EPIRB will transmit for at least 48 hours. I am not knocking a PLB as it is a great back-up to an EPIRB. Anyone who travels offshore without an EPIRB is lacking something essential between the ears IMO. I realize the previous sentence will rattle some folks however do your homework before you flame away. A PLB is a great device however it is NOT a substitute for an EPIRB. Anyone who advises against an EPIRB or any other safety equipment is a fool.
Profinity
I just don't get where guys like you are coming from in what you said here. A PLB for a great many boaters is a PERFECT substitute for an EPIRB. You have focused on one of the few main differences (24 hr. vs. 48 hr. battery transmit life.) If you really think you boat where you need the extra time, get one. Where I boat 24 will be fine. In cold water (not where I boat) 24 is also fine since without a raft or a really good and properly worn survival suit you will likely be dead long before the 24 is up anyway.
As several (including me) noted in this thread, there are also now 48 hour PLB's and there are PLB's that float, just like an EPIRB. About the only real difference of note left between the two, in how they operate, is the automatic release, deployment and startup available on one class of EPIRB's. If that is a desired feature for a boater then by all means that's what he should buy.
In my earlier post in this thread I tried to calmly list the differences between PLB's and EPIRB's; there really aren't all that many any more. It is just a choice. You guys who keep screaming that a PLB isn't an EPIRB (when in most important ways they are the same) only confuse the newbie who is trying to sort out all the options here.
You guys who keep screaming that a PLB isn't an EPIRB (when in most important ways they are the same) only confuse the newbie who is trying to sort out all the options here.
Unfortuneately the legislators as well as many of the Cospas-Sarsat documents do not agree with this statement. Users do need to understand a PLB is not the same as a marine Epirb.
__________________ The way forward in life is to first listen .......
Clicked on one of the Adds that pop up at the top of our page. The acr when it mentioned triangulate your possition down to about 1 miles range "After Several Passes"
That after several passes will get you to thinking. This was under the rental information on boats US web sight according to the sight.
As good to just as good and the difference on e bay that I have seen is 300 to 350 dollars the one like c-trail has might in its own mine not be any better than the rest but for peace of mind I would feel that added few inches of comfort with the little more cost. OI there is always a crew headed out 35 miles in the moring so thats not something to put money on but it is a better feeling knowing your not to far from the bigger charter boats that could help you through vhf long before CG could think about getting to you if you had time to get the numbers to them quickly. There the second line of defence. That yellow units the first and your right. They do stick a lot of choices out there for us to toy with.
ACR 406 MHz EPIRB
An activated EPIRB broadcasts a repeating SOS signal detected from virtually any point on earth. COSPAS/SARSAT satellites triangulate your position down to about a 1 mile range after several passes. Search and rescue personnel contact BoatUS for critical rental information and then send out appropriate rescue equipment.
McMurdo 406 MHz GPS-Enabled EPIRB
An activated GPS EPIRB has all the functions of an EPIRB with the added benefit of an internal GPS. This feature enables the EPIRB to identify its position down to few hundred yards and transmit that position to the initial satellite. By providing a quicker more accurate positioning the equipment should reduce search and rescue response time.
__________________ Fountain 31TE...... Hydra Sports 21 Bay...... Dodge 3500 Camping unit "Gone Fishing"..... Tinker Toy..... Sunset Point Nixonton NC
KPS- It has been a few days since I have looked at this thread. I will explain in brief the obvious differences that matter to some people when selecting a EPIRB as opposed to a PLB.
1. A PLB does NOT float (to my knowledge). I was taught that when deploying an EPIRB from a vessel or liferaft that you are to secure the device with a painters line to the life raft or vessel, whichever is applicable. The signal to the satellites is believed to be improved when not obstructed. You also want the strobe on the EPIRB to be visibile to rescue pesonnel/craft. I would want a device that floats, is designed to operate and float for such an emergency.
2. A PLB does not have a strobe light (to my knoweldge). I don't know about you but I want a strobe light on my EPIRB. It is a nice device to know where the device is located.
3. A EPIRB operates for at least 48 hrs. Some people will argue that 24 hrs. of operation for a PLB is perfectly acceptable. I think my life is worth the 48 hrs. a EPIRB is certified to provide. Call it psychological, stupid or what you wish, I want the longest time of operation possible. There exists such things as not favorable atmospheric conditions and I want the longest time to operate as possible.
4. A EPIRB appears to be a more rugged device and is designed to float as well to operate in water. An EPIRB does not require the user to orient an antenna in a any certain position of other than upright in operational mode as it is designed to function and float (right itself). A PLB is NOT SARSAT approved. A PLB does not have a painters line to my knowledge.
5. A EPIRB will activate when it comes into contact with water. A PLB will not.
6. A EPIRB unlike a PLB can be automatically deployed without human involvement as well manually operated.
All of the above does not disqualify a PLB from being a nice device to have as a back up emergency beacon but a PLB is still NOT an EPIRB by design. To some people the differences between a EPIRB and PLB are not significant. There are however situations where a EPIRB will save your life where a PLB will not. The differences to some of you may not appear to be significant. The reality is there is a significant difference between the two devices.
It floates
It has a strobe
It is SARSAT approved
It seems pretty rugged to me
It has a 'minimum' of 24 hours but ACR claims can be as much as 35 hours
Some of the features you describe are for a class 1 EPIRB, such as self deploying. You do know that most self deploying EPIRBS need to be submerged at least 15 feet before deploying? What if you capsize and not sink.
Ther majority here are not in the Berring Sea with 60 foot waves. We are between 15 and 40 miles off shore, and when we left port it was 'relativiely' good condition.
While not a true EPIRB ,,this new ACR seems to file that gap between relying on the VHF and a 48 hours EPIRB. At the price point I think many more people will have one .
I'm not positive, but I think my debtors and dependants will pass the hat and buy me one before I get out of sight of land.
My Dentist told me I only had to brush the teeth I wanted to keep. In the same vein, you only need an EPIRB for that one-way trip, so save your money and always come back. Apparently, the fool you referred to knows he will ALWAYS do that, or never goes out in the first place. What he doesn't know is that Mother Nature has plans for those who disrespect her. He's DOOMED!!!
__________________ If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
DD- The PLB you referenced looks like a great back-up unit to a true EPIRB. It still is not a true EPIRB in my book. I will likely buy one for a back-up unit. However the question is, "Why buy second best"?
Regarding your Bering Sea comment, I have been involved in more than one dangerous (highly stressful) situation while on the water, both offshore and near shore and as a child and an adult. The most recent situation involved my friend's small boat capsizing about 150' from shore. It was however a great snook bite. The swim to shore and fearing for my friend's life was psychologically traumatic enough to again remind me to think more conservatively about safety issues. Our situation turned out OK however I believe many and perhaps most people fail to realize that a situation of great stress can and often does compromise otherwise good thought and/or planning. In a ideal world, everyone is wearing a life jacket if the boat capsizes. This however was not the scenario we experienced.
Instead of debating why buy a EPIRB, how about thinking, why not buy a EPIRB? What possibly can be a better reason to buy a PLB over a EPIRB? The reason should not be fiscal in nature. If you own a boat you can afford a EPIRB. A PLB is great but is still second best. The argument that the cost of a EPIRB is more than a PLB is not a good argument. In a situation of real danger I want the best without any compromise for the safety of my crew and myself. If there was an option to buy a EPIRB that would broadcast longer than 48 hrs., and even if the option cost more, I personally would opt for it (spend the money). As far as I am concerned I don't care if you are boating in a small lake, if there is a dangerous situation I want equipment that is tried and true. NO COMPROMISES concerning safety. I don't understand people who question why other people spend money on safety equipment and feel there is something wrong with doing so.
Just wanted you to know I saw your reply to me, and DevilDogDad pretty much said what I would have said.
I'm in no way trying to question why anybody spends whatever they want to on any sort of gear, safety included. Just want to make sure the information being offered here is accurate.
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The swim to shore and fearing for my friend's life was psychologically traumatic enough to again remind me to think more conservatively about safety issues. Our situation turned out OK however I believe many and perhaps most people fail to realize that a situation of great stress can and often does compromise otherwise good thought and/or planning. In a ideal world, everyone is wearing a life jacket if the boat capsizes. This however was not the scenario we experienced.
