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Ready to get a bundle from one of the brands listed above. They will be going on my 29' Everglades. Chart Plotter, Radar, Bottom Machine. Still hearing that Furuno has one of the best Bottom Machines. True?
Garmin 5212 looks hot with the touch screen. But what about real world use? operating with wet fingers/fish slim? Garmin Transucer? Radar?
-I'll be pulling the trigger on 1 of these systems within the next week or two. Just want some .02cents from everyone else who owns & operated these systems for a good amount of time. At this point im looking at both Garmin & Furuno.
Two key elements from your list are price you are willing to pay and what level of performance you want/expect. A Garmin 4212 with 18" dome, sounder, weather and 600w transducer is $4,000. A Furuno 12" Navnet 3d with 25 kw 6' open array, weather, DFF3 3 kw sounder with R399 transducer will set you back closer to $18,000.
Also, one, two or three screens?
IMO, the Garmin 12" or 15" chartplotter is the best currently on the market; as far as radar, the Furuno, Raymarine and Garmin 4 kw domes are about the same - Garmin doesn't have a real high end (12 or 25kw unit) radar unit, as its GMR 406, while a good unit for $4,000, doesn't compare to the 25kw Furuno unit; fishfinders - a Furuno DFF1 (1kw) is slightly better than the Garmin GSD22 (I have a Furuno 585 (same as DFF1) and a GSD22, both running Airmar M260 transducers on my boat, and although the Garmin is good, the Furuno is better, especially in 400'+ water).
Personally, I don't think any of the systems in bad, and would go with which ever fits best size, budget and needs wise into your boating.
Do yourself a favor and go with Furuno or Raymarine. It seems that some think that Raymarine as a company is having problems right now. That I don't know. I will tell you that I've been in South Florida my entire life and grew up on boats with a rod in my hand. Furuno has always been the best in reliability and sounder quality. I've owned a few Raytheon (Raymarine), and Furuno units over the years and have never had a single problem with any of the units. I have usually run them for several years until it was time to upgrade to new technology. I currently own a Garmin 540s which is not up to par in my opinion. It is not nearly as nice as the 5212 but the technology is similar. The sounder on mine is mediocre. The mapping is nice but they have eliminated the compass which is a great feature when trying to find one of your waypoints. I don't know anything about the radar so I can't speak to that. I can however tell you about their customer service which is not great. They are usually willing to help you as long as you are under warranty. If not you pay their basic refurb fee and they'll swap your unit for one that works. They used to provide quick response to calls but since they control so much of the market now, they are overwhelmed by calls. Expect to wait 30 minutes to an hour and a half to get help. Some of the other posters will tell you that I'm on a "jihad" against Garmin. That may be true to a certain extent but this is a free country and I have the right to share my experience to prevent others from making the wrong decision.
I'm still waiting for Garmin to contact me regarding the SD-card reader cover they said they would try to find for me. I'm not holding my breath. They don't even have a part number for it.
Like LI32 says - It's all a matter of price and what you want.
My 2 cents:
If you go with a Raymarine, Garmin or Furuno with a 4KW dome and 1kw fishfinder, you are going to get about the same results, although I think Garmin takes the cake with their chartplotting and Furuno has it better for depth sounder technology.
I was looking at all 3 a late last year and went for Garmin to help offset some of the other projects I was working on. I love the ease of use, the chartplotter, etc. I just get pissed at the fishfinder because I keep loosing bottom lock.
If funds were no question, i'd have gone with the Furuno package LI32 layed out above.
__________________
Justin
2000 Luhrs 320 Open - CAT Power
United States Power Squadron - Vessel Safety Examiner
I've had a 5215 (15" touchscreen) with all the "trimmmings". The touchscreen realworld is absolutely awesome. The only issue I have had with touching it is with gloves on, it does not like rubber gloves. But wet, cold, slimy is not a problem.
MulletJupiter above post some interesting things:
1. He states Raymarine and Furuno has always been the top of the line stuff. Might have been, YEARS ago. And so was Chevy, and Chrystler.... but things change in the world we live in. And one of those "things" is the fact that Garmin is blowing them all our of the water right now. Will that continue the next 10 year? who knows, it will probably change again someday.
2. He states he never had any problems for years with Raymarine products. Well, I never had ANY Raymarine products without inherent problems, and problems that could NOT be fixed except for upgrading, or replaceng the units. And that is exactly what Raymarine techs would tell me, "Oh, you need to buy a new conversion box to fix the communications between those two units".
Nope, not me, I'm done with that. I gave up on Raymarine when I had to PURCHASE a new GPS receiver to fix a defective COG output in the software of the Ray120, then purchase a Seatalk to NMEA conversion/repeater box to fix the DS500x to RL70 communications. Pay $400 twice, to "upgrade" the software on the display, to FIX problems/bugs it was having....
I've had my Garmin units a season and a 1/2 now, I haven't purchased anything. I have had the luxury of upgrading the software on it about 6 times though. All adding new and nice features to my display's software, and to add shortcuts to menus...
Good luck with your choices, the fun starts AFTER you purchase it, and start installing.
was considering the same 3 as you. had raytheon (now rm) and furuno for 20+ years. raytheon went into the shop once, fixed immediately. other than that, no problems. current and old furuno units were/are bullet proof. decided to upgrade and spent the last 2 weeks looking at all 3 and talking to everyone i could.
furuno and rm have better ff and radars, garmin definitly has the lead in gps. and they'll catch rm and maybe furuno with the rest of their equipment.
decided against the rm, not sure where the company is heading, long term support, and i don't think they're as good as they used to be. also while comparing the equip, a guy came in that's had the c120 for 2 years. he likes it, but said he wouldn't do it again. not thrilled with it. on the other hand, after looking at all 3, i wasn't thrilled with any of them. all good, but each has their problems.
hearing lots of complaints about the garmin, but think that's just jumping on the bandwagon. but i decided againts them because their ff isn't as good, and i don't like the user interface. personal preference on the ui, ford v chevy etc.
i pulled the trigger on the furuno 3d, but am not thrilled about some things (tough to do things, too many features, menu's to do things). but the redraw was 0 wait, and the charts are the paper charts that i live with. the ff is good, they have great support, and tend to make bulletproof equip. but only time will tell. also, there's a rebate program going on at furuno which helped bring the price down, closer to 3k.
i've had my fcv582 northstar 951xd for 5 years, and never had a problem until the screen started to go on the nstar. i hope these are as good, but only time will tell.
good luck with your decison, but you won't go wrong with any of them.
the learning curve of the Furuno is a bit of a challenge, but worth it. Team Balla......what equipment are u coming from? Maybe learning a new system is not something you want to bother with?
the learning curve of the Furuno is a bit of a challenge, but worth it. Team Balla......what equipment are u coming from? Maybe learning a new system is not something you want to bother with?
Im Coming from a Lowerance XC-20(BASIC GPS/FF) It came wwith the boat in '05. I have mastered it and is very weak for me & my fishing.
Im probably going to go with Furuno for Bottom Machine. I really need to know where im fishing and what im on top of.
GPS/Radar?? Is gunna stump me. I should just go with Raymarine for the whole BUNDLE. And a good sized radar. EIthera 4 or 6KW Open array or closed array.
Could I get all this for $8k?(not including install of course)
I bought a Garmin 2010 almost eight years ago when they were first released. It has never had any problems and works the same way as when it was purchased (except for 1 upgrade). It is used regularly I boat/fish about 400 hrs/year. This product has held up well for me.
I just went through the same thing, and while I listened to many people, and received varying opinions, I went with the Raymarine C Series. I have the radar, FF with thru hull transducer, sirius weather/radio, and GPS. I had a couple of minor things to work thru and they were definitely user error, but I have to say I love my system. I would do it all again. Don't count out Raymarine. It's very easy to use, and the learning curve is very short, and the detail is great.
Take the advice of those that say to enjoy the Garmin while it works, because they are very unreliable. In a 2-3 year time period garmin replaced/upgraded from a 2010C to a 3010C to a 3210C along with a GSD 20, 21 & 22 and it never lasted more than a few months. They sent new and refurbished units and none were any better. My Furuno radar has been working perfect for about 5 years and as soon as I ripped all of the Garmin out and installed a new Navnet 2 VX2 10" unit along with a DFF1 bottom sounder, Ive been extremely satisified and have enjoyed the superior performance. The Furuno took a little longer to learn, but its well worth the time and investment spent on the better electronics!!! Avoid Garmin like the plague and remember that you get what you pay for and when you're many miles offshore do you really want to wonder if your electronics will be working to help you get home???
Go with the Furuno. Either one NN3D or Navnet VX2 really depends on what you have to spend. I just put Navnet VX2 system on my boat this spring and have been pretty pleased with it. I have the 1824C/NT with 18" dome and Dff1 BB fishfinder with M260 transducer (Total Cost $5,000) The support is second to none if you call you will get someone on the phone within minutes not hours and they are VERY knowledgeable about the equipment. If I could have afforded the NN3D I would have bought it in a second even with the minor bitches I have heard here. It is an awesome system with revolutionary technology and the reliability of the Furuno brand. There is a reason why the Coast Guard and the majority of commercial fisherman choose Furuno.
I've had my Garmin 182C since 2002. Other than an issue with the screen coating (fixed by Garmin at no charge), the unit has been flawless. I've also had a RM C70 since 2004 and a RM C120 since 2007, both have also worked flawlessly. I must say though, that I much prefer the Garmin.
So the scores are tied at the top of the ninth. Here's MY summary:
Got Bucks? Go Furuno.
Die hard traditionalist / Anglophile? Go Raymarine.
Anti-establishment? Don't go Garmin.
Believe anything someone tells you was true ten years ago? Go Data Marine (chuckle!)
Believe one or two guys that that are mad about some piddly problem and post over and over again like a broken record, hoping they can embarrass a few goodies out of a company? Don't go Garmin.
Hate cute little fish symbols? Don't buy Garmin.
Just want a good buy thats easy to learn and lasts a long time? Go Garmin.
Bottom line, if you expect to be disappointed, you will be.
__________________
If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
Could I get all this for $8k?(not including install of course)
That number is very unrealistic, IMO, for a TOP END electronics package.
Furuno has the BEST after the sale support there is and that's not just my opinion.
My suggestion if I was going to refit a true offshore boat tomorrow would be to go with an entire Furuno package but not take the brand new 3-D, but take one step back and install a duel display NavNet system assuming you have the room to do so.
There is some pretty good pricing on the system right now and after using my NavNet system now for four years is that the learning curve may be steeper than most, but the return of reliability and longevity is priceless.
I personally wouldn't touch any Raymarine gear until the companies future is well settled and currently it isn't. That is unless you would trade a good price for no warranty or after the sale support in case the company goes TU.
Good luck and let us know what you do.
WD.
__________________
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Unless you are very fascinated by watching computers boot stay away from Furuno NN 3D, the MFD8&12 booting takes very long time. I would also question the stability of any product with Windows operating system. NN 3D has Windos XP Embedded version. Raymarine is running Linux wich is a much faster and more stable operating system.
If equipping a new boat today I would go for a Raymarine C-Series Wide system.
Raymarine experienced some quality problems after outsourcing the manufacturing to Flextronix in Hungary, bot those problems are sorted out long time ago. As an EE developing high-end electronics for the offshore oil industri I have to admit I'm very impressed by the way the E-series is built. An extremly sturdy aluminium chassis, and when removing the bezel you see a thick aluminium front plate fastened to the chassis with a huge nuber of Torx screws, the front plate also have very well sealed and solid built buttons. It's easy to see the roots from the defense division of Rytheon. Also the software of Raymarine gives the professional no nonsense impression and also have an extremly logical user interface. While the screen images and user interfaces of some of the competitors look more like a consumer product, a bit glossy and impressive at first glance but often very difficult and time consuming to perform advanced tasks.
Don't let Raymarines current financial situation determine your choice. Raymarine is a very strong brand in marine electronics, probIably the stongest one. Raymarine have a dominating position among European boatbuilders which are equipping most high-end boats with complete Raymaine systems, and also among the European boat dealers Raymarine are the marked leader. If Raymarine goes under they will be picked up by Navico or Garmin to get access to these markeds.
my NN3d boots up in about 2 minutes....i find myself doing other things to prep the boat in the meantime. The latest update shortened the boot up process so maybe u need to update....i dont think boot up time is a significant factor in buying x y or z.
Garmin 5212 with GSD-22 & a 1kw ducer...Sat. XM weather. WE LOVE IT. Zero problems and touch screen is nice. Cleans well and wet slimmy fingers wipe right off. Glass face is made to be touched. I have owned both Furuno & Garmin. Garmin is now my choice! Good luck. All are quality products!
It's funny reading thru alot of the posts regarding ease use between the brands and what the user is used to.
Often, I think you guys confuse ease of use, with lack of features. The Garmins menu's are so easy to use, it "seems" to a novice (or new) user, they have less advanced features. In fact, the Garmin units have just as meany, and now with the latest softare upgrade on the 4000 and 5000 series units, has more advanced featurs than the others. RM and furuno "seem" to have more features, simply be cause they are not as ergonimic to utilize, the menu's are difficult and confusing sometimes. Things are spread out around in no real logical order. The interface Garmin uses has all the same options and features (plus more), but they aranged is such a way they are easy to get to, logically oriented. This makes them feel liek a simpler unit, it's not, it's just easier to operate.
Offshore31 above, stated he didn't buy Garmin because "he didn't like their interface". Then goes on to say about his Furuno unit: " tough to do things, too many features, menu's to do things".
That's interesting, the point of the Garmin interface is to make it easy for you to do and find things, as opposed to the way the RM and Furuno menu's work. If he were to get a Garmin, he would LOVE the interface, that I can asure you 100%. That, coming from a previous RM guy, now Garmin.
Raymarine, Garmin, or Furuno?
