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Hey Birdman,
I figure you've got another good 1/2 season on your Garmin. Enjoy it while it works!
Really, and which other company do you work for?
I've owned some oddball Garmin products in the past, like a Garmin handheld Rhino 120 GPS unit. It lasted more years than I cand remember before I sold it for the same price I paid for it. Think it was about 8 or 9 years old. Worked like the day I got it.
Now that said, Ive never had ANY marine electronics product I've purchased fail (knock knock knock), and that includes all the brands. The only exception would be Lowrance, which I simply would not purchase or trust. If you install them properly, treat them correctly, they will last without issue. So longevity of any of the brands is really not an issue.
To me, the choices are:
1. Price (what you can afford).
2a. Functionality and features.
2b. Ergonomics, ease of use.
3. Product support (including upgradability of the software, the companies willingness to improve the software, technical support, reliability of manufacturer...)
The rest, especially the "my brothers sisters freinds father in law was a avid fisherman, the best in the gulf of mexico for 40 years, says xyz is the best!!" is all hogwash.
It's funny reading thru alot of the posts regarding ease use between the brands and what the user is used to.
Often, I think you guys confuse ease of use, with lack of features. The Garmins menu's are so easy to use, it "seems" to a novice (or new) user, they have less advanced features. In fact, the Garmin units have just as meany, and now with the latest softare upgrade on the 4000 and 5000 series units, has more advanced featurs than the others. RM and furuno "seem" to have more features, simply be cause they are not as ergonimic to utilize, the menu's are difficult and confusing sometimes. Things are spread out around in no real logical order. The interface Garmin uses has all the same options and features (plus more), but they aranged is such a way they are easy to get to, logically oriented. This makes them feel liek a simpler unit, it's not, it's just easier to operate.
Offshore31 above, stated he didn't buy Garmin because "he didn't like their interface". Then goes on to say about his Furuno unit: " tough to do things, too many features, menu's to do things".
That's interesting, the point of the Garmin interface is to make it easy for you to do and find things, as opposed to the way the RM and Furuno menu's work. If he were to get a Garmin, he would LOVE the interface, that I can asure you 100%. That, coming from a previous RM guy, now Garmin.
what i was trying to show was that there's no best one out there. they all have their features and flaws, and it comes down to personal preference. i'm willing to live with a steeper learning curve to get some other things that i wanted. and no, i would NOT love the interface. i've used it and don't like it. and i have a garmin handheld that in my mind is only ok. again, personal preference. you like what you want and i can like what i do. unless one can't get to a waypoint, neither is better, just different.
Look....you are going to have as many opinions as you will have brands out there. Just read a Contender/Yellowfin/Bluewater/SeaPro/etc./etc./etc. post. Go to a boating store i.e. West Marine, play with their demo units and see which one has the prettiest colors to you. Pick that one. Same result, these are all quality systems. The trick is going to be learning how to take advantage of all the functionality.
Go use the products and see which interface you like to use best. I think that should be the deciding factor.
Furuno has top notch support that has not really dipped through the times. Raymarine has gone through some changes (from Raytheon to Raymarine) and will probably go through some more. Garmin is going to be around for a long time as they are the 800lb gorilla in the room.
Also, how important is radar and FF ? Those two are excellent in two of the brands but at the current moment - Garmin is still a bit behind. If you don't FF and use radar, that may be a moot element.
Garmin = easy to use and intuitive. No real wow factor on the dock though. High end boats all seem to have Furuno with a smattering of Raymarine thrown in, IMHO
Raymarine = also easy to use and very upgradable/modular. Individual components are easy to find and install.
Furuno NN2 = I have this unit and it is great performance wise. I have had a NN system for 5 years now and I still have to read the manual now and again. Once you learn it the system is great but it takes a while and you will likely have to refer back as I do if you don't use it all the time. NN2 is not easily upgradable and the individual components are a pain to find and expensive to buy. I do love the C-map charts. I use PC planner to manage my waypoints/routes.
Furuno NN3 = Probably same functionality as the NN1 and NN2 but individual components are easily available for upgrade. I am not familiar with the charts.
For your size boat I would go with a Furuno NN2 or NN3 6kw open array radar and 1kw sounder. Plenty enough crank for anything you can get yourself into. Add a Garmin TR1 type AP and decent nmea in/out VHF and you will have the exact setup I have and love. Radar performance is fantastic on my 6kw open array unit, the sounder is also very powerful and gives a great picture, the AP works very well, and the GPS plotter is plenty large and easily operable if mounted correctly.
I like the touchscreen setup on an enclosed boat but I can't bring myself to smudge fingers all over my screen in my open center console. Furuno tech has been great and I find little to complain about other than my own stupidity when operating the unit.
Garmin = easy to use and intuitive. No real wow factor on the dock though. High end boats all seem to have Furuno with a smattering of Raymarine thrown in, IMHO
Raymarine = also easy to use and very upgradable/modular. Individual components are easy to find and install.
Furuno NN2 = I have this unit and it is great performance wise. I have had a NN system for 5 years now and I still have to read the manual now and again. Once you learn it the system is great but it takes a while and you will likely have to refer back as I do if you don't use it all the time. NN2 is not easily upgradable and the individual components are a pain to find and expensive to buy. I do love the C-map charts. I use PC planner to manage my waypoints/routes.
Furuno NN3 = Probably same functionality as the NN1 and NN2 but individual components are easily available for upgrade. I am not familiar with the charts.
For your size boat I would go with a Furuno NN2 or NN3 6kw open array radar and 1kw sounder. Plenty enough crank for anything you can get yourself into. Add a Garmin TR1 type AP and decent nmea in/out VHF and you will have the exact setup I have and love. Radar performance is fantastic on my 6kw open array unit, the sounder is also very powerful and gives a great picture, the AP works very well, and the GPS plotter is plenty large and easily operable if mounted correctly.
I like the touchscreen setup on an enclosed boat but I can't bring myself to smudge fingers all over my screen in my open center console. Furuno tech has been great and I find little to complain about other than my own stupidity when operating the unit.
I think that's a great system. But not a system that you could put together for 8k though. . ..
Garmin = easy to use and intuitive. No real wow factor on the dock though.
1st, WHO CARES about a "wow factor" at he dock??
But, what's not to WOW on the dock, about a 15" display with no buttons that does incredible 3D imaging and charting?? I actually have a problem getting anything done on my boat in the eve, there's a daily pilgramage of poeple interupting me to ask about the "big screen TV" on my dash. Yes, one guy asked about the boig screen TV. I quickly realized that conversation wasn't going to go anywhere.....
Birdman,
I'm a Florida General Contractor which explains the extra time I've been spending on this site lately.
All,
The main complaint I have about Garmin which encompasses all of their units that accept an SDcard is that the stupid card reader cover is magnetic. Think about it for a minute. You obviously can't magnetize stainless steel so what did they use on the cover. Oh yeah...regular old steel. Saltwater and steel don't get along so well. Now, similar to what sigfla said about a center console boat, there is absolutely no way with the way the card cover is designed, to keep saltwater and fish guts away from the screen or the steel in the cover. Mine completely corroded after a year and water got into the card reader. It's just a piss poor design and there's nothing you can say to change the fact that no exposed component on a marine electronics unit should ever be susceptible to rust from saltwater. It's just a plain stupid design.
So Garmin wouldn't play by YOUR rules, Mullet. Too bad. Quit carping.
Go ahead and slime that touch screen. It will clean up, and continue working for years. Garmin Engineers tested that very thoroughly before they got the go-ahead to produce. They slimed, squirted, splashed and even barfed on these beauties, and didn't cause a single problem. The special coatings to enhance contrast and defeat reflections are on the INSIDE of the glass. Isn't that obvious?
I sell all these brands (not on line) and if you want to get into a feature matching contest, Garmin wins. Their radar is NOT second best, and their fishfinders use the same transducers as everyone else, but just present a different picture. If we could just separate the "My daddy used to say" B.S. from what these systems do today, compared competing products, and accepted the fact that there is no one best way to do things, there wouldn't be quite so many folks quoting the gospel according to St. Furuno!
Go ahead and buy Raymarine, before Garmin does!
__________________ If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
Just an interesting comment. As the Captain of a 70ft Custom S/F I was talking to my Electronics Dealer as he was installing a new Navnet 3D system for about 18K and he told me he just put a raymarine system in his new Venture 34. As the conversation was about 1 year ago and the economy was booming and his business was so busy that the owner was out installing equipment because all his techs were on other projects, I feel price had nothing to do with his choice.
I have Furuno on the 70 and furuno(bottom machine and plotter) and raymarine (C80 complete system) on my contender 31. both work great but have their advantages. Think what is most important to you. Sounder, Plotter, or radar all have important uses but which is most important. what size radar will you need? In the Gulf of Mexico I rarely used my radar to find birds as I do in the Pacific Ocean. for me radar (25kw) is as important as my sounder Think hard about how you will use the system and this will help in your choice.
I've installed 22 of these units over the last two years and haven't had an sd card reader rust or not function correctly.
My 545 has been installed at my helm station since March of 2007 and it's been exposed to some real tuff conditions in the offshore environment .... copious amounts of rain and salt spray and not a hint of rust. During the period the 545 has been installed I've massed 879 hours of offshore fishing.
Let's take an up close look at the design. The pictures are of my 545 installed on my Whaler.
Note the rubber gasket below the magnet. The magnet has no rust on it nor does the case. The case is plastic under which is another piece of metal that magnet adheres to.
$18K for a NN3D system described above represents outrageous markup....
Value is in the eye of the beholder based upon the size of his wallet.
$18k might be a life's savings for the guy that can barely afford his 10 year old 23' Mako, but isn't even pocket change for the guy who just dropped $5 million+ on his new 82' Viking.
I think that's a great system. But not a system that you could put together for 8k though. . ..
Go with a 4kw open array (the antenna will look a bit small but it will still look better than a dome). Drop the AP and you are well under 8k. In fact you might be able to add the AP and still be under. AP is nice but not 100% necessary. You could also go with a 4kw dome and save some more $$$. However then you are getting into the bang for a buck argument. In that area you may want a lower cost unit that would perform better.
So Garmin wouldn't play by YOUR rules, Mullet. Too bad. Quit carping.
Go ahead and slime that touch screen. It will clean up, and continue working for years. Garmin Engineers tested that very thoroughly before they got the go-ahead to produce. They slimed, squirted, splashed and even barfed on these beauties, and didn't cause a single problem. The special coatings to enhance contrast and defeat reflections are on the INSIDE of the glass. Isn't that obvious?
I sell all these brands (not on line) and if you want to get into a feature matching contest, Garmin wins. Their radar is NOT second best, and their fishfinders use the same transducers as everyone else, but just present a different picture. If we could just separate the "My daddy used to say" B.S. from what these systems do today, compared competing products, and accepted the fact that there is no one best way to do things, there wouldn't be quite so many folks quoting the gospel according to St. Furuno!
Well said. I LOL literally everytime I see somebody say "Furuno has sounders, and Ray Marine has Radar hands down, and Garmin has GPS". My Garmin radar blows my old RM radar away. Granted my new radar is new, but its the same power and specs, and works ALOT better. My GSD22 has functioned flawlessly less a few minor things like some noise at the top 20% of the display. I see no difference in quality of detail or imaging between my RM and my Garmin, and I have NEVER seen a better image from the Vaunted "Furuno" sounders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyda
Go ahead and buy Raymarine, before Garmin does!
Now THAT is funny!! But to be honest, I hope that doesn't happen as it would kill the competition, not that there really is any right now, but...... somebody will need to keep Garmin honest in the future!!
Garmin simply works easier, and IMO better. Forget the owners manual, you will never need it, the tech support is awsome, and BWP and Bird can answer any questions in a flash.
I went from Nav Net II, functioning perfectly to 5212. Reason, ease of use. Also was able to do a 12" where with the Furuno i was at 10".
touch screen can be bothersome if someone inadvertantly touches it.
I as well did the Garmin AP and adore the ease of use, aucracy and like life without the brain damage the furuno gave me.
The Garmin gear just works and easily. I was a Furuno guy forever, you could not give me the stuff to use after Garmin. You will not understand what I mean until you have time on water with both.
In reading through the posts about which system is best, I feel compelled to make the following comment(s).
While it is clear that each of you have your own preferences with different manufacturers, as an IT consultant feel compelled to point out the obvious. Users tend to favor what they've purchased because they purchased it based on their preferences and experience.
Have you ever watched a MAC user try to use a PC or visa versa? We like what we like, and generally that is why we bought whatever product we are endorsing here. Granted, you have each made your purchase decisions based on your own experiences.
I have owned each of the three mfg's products above. They all have pros and cons, one product over another is favored in part due to my personal preferences and yes, based on my experiences with one mfg. or another.
I would therefore, encourage any prospective buyer to see, feel and touch each unit that they may be interested in purchasing. Couple your own opinions with your research and budget and I'm confident that you will make a good buying decision.
In reading through the posts about which system is best, I feel compelled to make the following comment(s).
While it is clear that each of you have your own preferences with different manufacturers, as an IT consultant feel compelled to point out the obvious. Users tend to favor what they've purchased because they purchased it based on their preferences and experience.
Have you ever watched a MAC user try to use a PC or visa versa? We like what we like, and generally that is why we bought whatever product we are endorsing here. Granted, you have each made your purchase decisions based on your own experiences.
I have owned each of the three mfg's products above. They all have pros and cons, one product over another is favored in part due to my personal preferences and yes, based on my experiences with one mfg. or another.
I would therefore, encourage any prospective buyer to see, feel and touch each unit that they may be interested in purchasing. Couple your own opinions with your research and budget and I'm confident that you will make a good buying decision.
this should be the final response to 90% of the posts on THT
__________________ Justin
2000 Luhrs 320 Open - CAT Power United States Power Squadron - Vessel Safety Examiner
I quickly realized that conversation wasn't going to go anywhere..... 
