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Meh, the thread was already gone by the time I brought garmin into it, and that was only to explain why RM is having problems with sales.
The consumer market is much bigger than the professional yacht market, in units as well as total dollars. RM saw this with the introduction of the sportpilot and the A line, but failed to realize they needed to eat their own market by dropping the price points of the E line to keep it's market share. The G line is for a very rarified crowd.
They simply failed to see how much of their E market really wanted a lower cost option in a networked solution.
They are also hurt by the bottom falling out of the new boat market, but they had nowhere to turn in the end. Garmin is selling a lot, so the market must exist. RM simply isn't addressing it.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
This started out as "is Raymarine going under" and has turned into a defense
of Garmin. This board can sure get out of hand sometimes.
Yes it does doesn't it. Maybe it's insecurity when people think they have to be defensive? But then maybe there might be more to some of this stuff than they want to let on. If only we knew everything about those those that made comments
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I never get lost, everybody tells me where to go!
This thread sounds like the 10'Oclock news, alot of speculation. No one has any hard facts. Did anyone stop to consider that its the height of the season and the tech guys are swamped. Everyone, myself included see's their problem as the most important thing a tech has to do. Until you spend a day in their shoes its not fair to judge. As far as people saying they dont like Raymarine's products after trying it on a buddys boat for a day, is not a fair assessment of any product. I have spent hundreds of hours in front of Raymarine's equipment, and there are plenty of things I dont know about them.
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Capt. Tom Pitasi
Coastal Fishing Charters
Raymarine Pro Ambassadour
Lunker City Pro Staff
Navionics Pro Staff
I decided this is my last post. I am sick and tired of the bashers. I tried so hard to play the devils advocate several times on this board. I am just sick of the one-sided, full-of-themselves, know-it-alls.
I spoke with Raymarine techs on the phone two days in a row, THEY ARE SUPER BUSY!
I would like to say, good luck Raymarine! I'm pulling for you.
Raymarine was almost ordered for my boat until I had a similar experience as above when calling them. They are super busy, the tech stated that he is totally burned out at the end of the day, you could tell. Here is how it played out.
While waiting on hold I was prompted to start an account with them by the "repeating message" so I thought what the heck, I am here waiting anyway. I did the account, typed my question and then the phone line dumped me since the wait was more than 20 minutes.
Called back and went through similar stuff but then a tech answered in about ten minutes. I'll admit, the answers were a bit short and I did not feel really confident with the information. That was last week, yesterday the e-mail question was answered, but not to my satisfaction.
Their response says if they did not answer satisfactorily to log in to my account, so I did. What they offer at that point is to go through the entire thing again. For this reason and this reason alone, I am not going to purchase one. Customer service means a great deal to me. I really like their units after playing with them at West Marine and they have or had some great rebates.
I decided this is my last post. I am sick and tired of the bashers. I tried so hard to play the devils advocate several times on this board. I am just sick of the one-sided, full-of-themselves, know-it-alls.
I spoke with Raymarine techs on the phone two days in a row, THEY ARE SUPER BUSY!
I would like to say, good luck Raymarine! I'm pulling for you.
No matter how good a piece of equipment may be in comparison to competition, no customer support makes it relatively worthless when troubles arise. It has been two weeks now and still no return e-mails or voice mails. RM should be held accountable for their false statements on the website and their voicemail announcements regarding their response times and service standards. I'm sure the market place will seal the fate of RM as it does all companies that place sales and marketing efforts above standing behind their product. What a shame!
In defense of Raymarine, I DID get my A65 yesterday...It's working fine, and I got a new antenna .... I'm sorry that the techs are swamped with work , but my A65 did not work right out of the box ..If they had good quality control , my unit would have been one less unit that they had to repair ...I'm sure that there were plenty more just like mine that were brand new that had to be fixed .... I got it back faster than the woman on the other end of the phone said I would , so I am happy .... Between not having a working unit right from the start , and hearing that I would be having approx 1 months waiting time from beginning to end , I was not a happy camper ... The weather here in the N.E. has not been very good so it didin't hurt as much as it could have .... It ended well , so I'm happy ....A little over 2 weeks turn around from a company that is extremely busy, and going out of business, is pretty darn good in my book !! ... Some of these other companies can learn from them ....They stand behind their product to the bitter end !!....Jim
I did not return it to the retailer , because they would have had to do the same thing that I did ....They did not have a unit to give me , so what was the point ...The rep at Raymarine said to send it directly in , and I did .... It's fixed and for that I am grateful ...Jim
3 weeks ago I sent in the modulator assembly from an out of warranty 4 kw Raymarine open array radar (10 months out of the original 2 year warranty based on when the boat sold, and 18 months out of warranty by the serial number). I expected a call with an estimate for repair. Instead, 1 week ago I received the repaired modulator assembly covered under warranty. No problems with Raymarine here.
I did the math, and frankly I'm pretty surprised that with all the automobile and land GPS's that Garmin makes , and their wide variety of products, that Raymarines 52 week high was almost 4 times what Garmins was ....I read various posts on the internet ( take them with a grain of salt ) that Garmin wanted to aquire Raymarine ...By these numbers , I can see why ...Jim
PS...I happen to like Garmin GPS's , but not too fond of their F.F. 's .....
why do the math?
stock prices aren't a measure of the customer service dept ,etc.
they are more a measurement of sales , profits and growth.
i'd never choose my marine electronics based on the stock performance of the parent company.
I did the math, and frankly I'm pretty surprised that with all the automobile and land GPS's that Garmin makes , and their wide variety of products, that Raymarines 52 week high was almost 4 times what Garmins was ....I read various posts on the internet ( take them with a grain of salt ) that Garmin wanted to aquire Raymarine ...By these numbers , I can see why ...Jim
PS...I happen to like Garmin GPS's , but not too fond of their F.F. 's .....
RM stock is quoted in pence. 1 pence is about 2 cents.
I'm committed to a Raymarine E Series installation when my boat arrives next month because I believe in the product and support. What I've heard - New E Series to be launched this quarter but likely available Q4.
Share prices? GM common stock is still transacting and GM themselves needed to make a press statement to remind the market that their common stock is worth nothing.
As Raymarine have publicly announced, they are looking at options.
Garmin? Based on my personal experiences, Garmin sucks.
I wouldn't put them "Heads and shoulders" above anybody. If you like touchscreen in an all-in-one unit - then maybe. However, most people wouldn't consider the Garmin CP to be heads and shoulders above the rest of the competition. Most of the built-in units are all a bit slower than standalone PC's but the deciding factor is usually the user interface. While Garmin's user interface might be a bit structured, it's not always the fastest to use. Not sure I like traversing their menu's to do some simple things. . .
Also, garmin's screens are not as good as the Raymarine high-end units. It's certainly not anywhere close to the separate sunlight readable displays but thats an unfair comparison. And in terms of integration with other products, Garmin is severely lacking. Getting better but definitely lacking.
Now, the one thing Garmin does shine is that it is doubtful Garmin will be in the same financial trouble that RM is or that Furuno could be as they have a large segment of non-marine business.
What the HECK are ya talkin about??? Ray's "High-end units"??? Your kidding right? If Garmin is better in any area between the two, it's these two:
1. Ease of use (ergonomics) of the software. Not even a competition right now.
2. Dispalys. Garmins offers larger displays. But BOTH are sunlight viewable, and both are bright. Neither is any better than the other as they both come out of the same LCD TFT plants in china and Korea, along with every other LCD display on the planet.
But, it is a REAL bummer if Ray goes under or is bought out and disintegrates (as I suspect would occur if Garmin were to buy them). competition is good. The lack of it would suck for us.
A friend of mine within Raymarine pointed out that companies in trouble do not Introduce and Deliver as many new products as Raymarine has over the past 8 months. New X Series autopilots, New A Series combo units, New Wide-screen C Series HD Displays, New digital radomes, New ST70 Plus Series of Instruments and pilots and a New AIS Class B transceiver.
He says they're good to go, and it's bus as usual at the company.
Honestly, this is a pointless argument. Each company has advantages, disadvantages and their own issues. If everyone liked exactly the same product, we'd all be driving the same exact car, have the same boat and exact same home.
Some people like each of the brands, even the navico lines and everyone has to buy what suits their needs and pockets.
BTW - Hummingbird rules!
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Justin
2000 Luhrs 320 Open - CAT Power
United States Power Squadron - Vessel Safety Examiner
What the HECK are ya talkin about??? Ray's "High-end units"??? Your kidding right? If Garmin is better in any area between the two, it's these two:
1. Ease of use (ergonomics) of the software. Not even a competition right now.
To discuss which have to best user interface (UI) of two well engineerd interfaces are wasted effort. For some people the more graphical Garmin interface is the simplest to learn and to use, for other people the very logical Raymarine is the best. It's useless to discuss, but it's important to be aware of different UI styles when bying a new instrument. Go to the store and play with the different models to find what kind of style UI suits you best.
For me the Garmin UI sucks because I have to remember where they have hidden some of the seldom used options, with a Raymarine unit I'm able to reason where to find the setting.
