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Random Quote: I'm not always right, but I am rarely wrong!!!!
Generally speaking, the bigger the screen, the slower the redraw. The fastest redraw on the market is the Furuno Navnet3d derived from MaxSea stuff. Almost instantaneous.. . Especially using a standalone pc (the mfdbb is fast for what it does but is outdated in terms of cpu speed). The top of the line RM G which is faster than Furuno's MFDBB is almost as fast but due to different algorithms, the Furuno still renders faster.
Garmin is getting better, but you can't outfit an integrated system with Garmin still, and its still trying to catch up with radar and other things. Yeah, they have a fish finder and radar, a vhf offering, and I think a basic autopilot. However, no real instrument displays to speak ok, no other sensors outside of depth, no real customizable solutions, no AIS capability, etc, etc. It's real basic right now. Granted, they are and will still be in business though.
Yeah, they have a fish finder and radar, a vhf offering, and I think abasic autopilot. However, no real instrument displays to speak ok.
Uh, last time I took a drive in my boat, and looked at my garmin GHC10 autopilot display, kind of thought it was a little more than basic. Garmin took the TR-1 Nautamatic to new levels in my book...I owned the Tr-1, and now have the GHP10. Not sure there is a better pilot on the market...IMO.. Happens to be networked to an E120 and an E-80 screen, and I couldnt be happier with the set up.
Also own a smaller boat with a 4212, and the garmin gps is one of the nicest out there. They will gain market share as their electronics evolve.....it is no fly-by-night company..
__________________ '06 Pursuit 3370 (FOR SALE...SEE SALE FORUM!)
I don't have much to add to this except that I used my friends C80 this past weekend, and it simply doesn't even come close to my 4210. It is not intuitive at ALL, and image quality would be good if it is from the 1990's.
Garmin -- provided they keep listening to their customers... will do very well.
Yeah, they have a fish finder and radar, a vhf offering, and I think abasic autopilot. However, no real instrument displays to speak ok.
Uh, last time I took a drive in my boat, and looked at my garmin GHC10 autopilot display, kind of thought it was a little more than basic. Garmin took the TR-1 Nautamatic to new levels in my book...I owned the Tr-1, and now have the GHP10. Not sure there is a better pilot on the market...IMO.. Happens to be networked to an E120 and an E-80 screen, and I couldnt be happier with the set up.
Also own a smaller boat with a 4212, and the garmin gps is one of the nicest out there. They will gain market share as their electronics evolve.....it is no fly-by-night company..
uh, if you look at the text and tone of my original email - you are associating "basic" with quality. I made no derogatory comments about their auto pilot. My reference was to the breadth of their offerings. Last I checked, their autopilot was limited to hydraulic only steering systems - no tillers or wheel pilots(basically limited for any sort of sailing vessels), and I believe only recently the larger hydraulic pump to handle larger engine/displacements. It certainly wasn't a feature based comparisons as Garmin will usually win those as its a more "consumer friendly" company.
But seriously, I have mentioned several times that Garmin isn't going away and nowhere insinuated that they were a fly-by-night operation. If you look at the previous posts, you will see where I have mentioned that they are going nowhere. However, at the current time, they aren't in the same category in terms of breadth of product as Furuno, Raymarine or Simrad (which we haven't even mentioned here). If you look at those guys, you can go soup to nuts (which you may or may not want to do), but Garmin does have some serious holes in their product line in terms of filling it out. They have (and rightfully so) focused on chartplotters as their strength is in GPS/navigation, but you need to fill the line out at some point and that is what I was implying by saying the breadth of their line is "Basic".
I think the Garmin 42/52 series is a decent unit. I'm not a fan of their interface and I think the redraws are a bit slow but only compared to their competitors top of the line units. They have integrated touch screen, which may or may not be a good thing depending upon whether you prefer that or not. Their screen brightness is above average, but again, not top of the line.
Pricing wise, they are more than competitive. If you go beyond the 42xx series and into the 52xx series, then I'm not sure you're going to be "saving" much as they are pretty close to even at that point.
uh, if you look at the text and tone of my original email - you are associating "basic" with quality. I made no derogatory comments about their auto pilot. My reference was to the breadth of their offerings. Last I checked, their autopilot was limited to hydraulic only steering systems - no tillers or wheel pilots(basically limited for any sort of sailing vessels), and I believe only recently the larger hydraulic pump to handle larger engine/displacements. It certainly wasn't a feature based comparisons as Garmin will usually win those as its a more "consumer friendly" company.
But seriously, I have mentioned several times that Garmin isn't going away and nowhere insinuated that they were a fly-by-night operation. If you look at the previous posts, you will see where I have mentioned that they are going nowhere. However, at the current time, they aren't in the same category in terms of breadth of product as Furuno, Raymarine or Simrad (which we haven't even mentioned here). If you look at those guys, you can go soup to nuts (which you may or may not want to do), but Garmin does have some serious holes in their product line in terms of filling it out. They have (and rightfully so) focused on chartplotters as their strength is in GPS/navigation, but you need to fill the line out at some point and that is what I was implying by saying the breadth of their line is "Basic".
I think the Garmin 42/52 series is a decent unit. I'm not a fan of their interface and I think the redraws are a bit slow but only compared to their competitors top of the line units. They have integrated touch screen, which may or may not be a good thing depending upon whether you prefer that or not. Their screen brightness is above average, but again, not top of the line.
Pricing wise, they are more than competitive. If you go beyond the 42xx series and into the 52xx series, then I'm not sure you're going to be "saving" much as they are pretty close to even at that point.
Slow down! Let me go get the popcorn. This is gonna be good.
__________________
"Fissues" on CH 65
Carolina Classic 28
No big deal.....but when I read your post " I think a basic autopilot", it kind of made me wonder how much hands on you've had with any of these systems.
How could one not know TR-1 was acquired by Garmin? The pilot is anything but basic....in function...or unique best on the market display, IMO.
They took one of the best pilots on the market, and made it even better.
I currently own 2 garmin GHP10s,. and had a TR-1 on my last boat.
Yes, I agree with the rest.....they need to step up the FF and radar...once that's done, be tough to say they have serious holes in their product line. And it won't be long....watch for some new releases soon.
As far as re-draws, I think the E120 and E80s I own are some of the slowest. The 4212 I own is light years ahead as a plotter. So I own both, and am giving my objective opinion of both.
No one company is dominant. IMO, plotters and pilots go to Garmin, radar and sounders pretty close between furuno and raymarine. Furuno seems to have their act together with very few problems. Raymarine is way more quirky and way too voltage sensitive. Northstar? Keep an electronics tech on your speed dial. Simrad? Come on....talk about holes....
Pass the popcorn....
__________________ '06 Pursuit 3370 (FOR SALE...SEE SALE FORUM!)
I don't have much to add to this except that I used my friends C80 this past weekend, and it simply doesn't even come close to my 4210. It is not intuitive at ALL, and image quality would be good if it is from the 1990's.
Garmin -- provided they keep listening to their customers... will do very well.
I sent them 2 E120 and a S3G which they recieved last Monday. I got the 2 rebuilt E120s back today at no cost even though they were 90 days past the warranty. I hope the S3G will follow soon. It may be tough getting them on the phone or email. But their repair is still working.
No big deal.....but when I read your post " I think a basic autopilot", it kind of made me wonder how much hands on you've had with any of these systems.
How could one not know TR-1 was acquired by Garmin? The pilot is anything but basic....in function...or unique best on the market display, IMO.
They took one of the best pilots on the market, and made it even better.
I currently own 2 garmin GHP10s,. and had a TR-1 on my last boat.
Yes, I agree with the rest.....they need to step up the FF and radar...once that's done, be tough to say they have serious holes in their product line. And it won't be long....watch for some new releases soon.
As far as re-draws, I think the E120 and E80s I own are some of the slowest. The 4212 I own is light years ahead as a plotter. So I own both, and am giving my objective opinion of both.
No one company is dominant. IMO, plotters and pilots go to Garmin, radar and sounders pretty close between furuno and raymarine. Furuno seems to have their act together with very few problems. Raymarine is way more quirky and way too voltage sensitive. Northstar? Keep an electronics tech on your speed dial. Simrad? Come on....talk about holes....
Pass the popcorn....
I know about Garmin buying nautamatic/TR-1. It's a very good autopilot for small to mid size boats. It has limitations in that it won't work for many sailboats/configurations. Like I said - a bit limited compared to others..
We'll agree that they are way behind in FF and radar. Don't forget that they have one GMI-10 not really configurable instrument display, no ability for advanced glass bridges, etc.
Simrad - they might have a few holes, but they have some really really good high end stuff. I've seen some helms with full simrad glass bridges and they were stunning (not just in looks but also in performance). The thing I don't like about simrad is that their units are actually too much marinized PC vs a processor based system. It's a real fine line as the Furuno MFDBB and RM G series are essentially processors - just a bit more insulated than the Simrad units.
However, in terms of autopilots, the top Simrad autopilots are real good. I'm not a big navico/simrad/b&g/northstar family supporter but I can't fault a lot of the simrad stuff out there. It's pretty good stuff.
Redraws are a bit difficult to compare. Outside of standalone PC's that you run navigation software, the fastest are the furuno navnet3d/maxsea stuff. The next fastest that I have seen are the Raymarine G's. Simrads are on par with the G's, but they are almost categorized into the standalone PC's. Everybody else is several steps below. I have extensively tested the 42xx series from Garmin and used the 52xx series though not as extensively. The integrated RM G setup is better. The integrated Furuno NavNet3d is just as good. The difference is only in the interface and which one you like.
Now, you may say its unfair to compare black box solutions with standalones - well that might be. You can say you need to compare it to the E120 or something along those lines or you could say that Garmin needs to come out with a black box solution that can drive external displays and integrated with everything else.
Anyhow, we're diverging from the fact at hand - that Raymarine is in financial trouble and it just might be one less competitor in the marketplace.
I used the FF -- not impressed at all (granted he has a transom mount ducer). And the radar was average. (Mind you, I don't have radar on my 4210 yet).
My BRAND NEW A65 did not work right out of the box ....Raymarine Repair recieved it for repair on 6/16 and it's STILL not on the bench which the woman on the phone said that I should hopefully get it back 10 days from the time it hits the bench ...I figure I should have my unit back just in time for ice fishing !!....NOT HAPPY AT ALL .....They have no other units to send me....Evidently the various retailers sold units for new that SHOULD HAVE BEEN sent back to Raymarine .... I will remember this retailer and avoid them like the plague ...Jim
I think we have a troll here. Either that or someone who likes flights of fancy with no hands on knowledge.
I have Garmin Radar (hd24) and FF (gsd22 with M260). I also had a 24 in 4KW RM radar and DSM module with M260.
Guess what? The Garmin is every bit as good with Radar and coastal FF as the RM ever was. I say coastal on the FF because I haven't used it yet in anything greater than 100 feet. But I will soon, and I'm not particularly worried.
Also, ALL of these units (GSM, AP, Radar, XM, 2 chartplotters) are all networked. Really, they are.
So go ahead and say they aren't, that this sucks or that sucks, but I have BOTH systems. I have used all kinds of gear on all kinds of boats. The Garmin measures up.
Are there things I don't like? Sure, but they aren't show stoppers and Garmin is good about updates.
But go ahead and believe what you want. You will be complaining while I'm off fishing. Have fun.....
__________________
Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
I've used both and personally I think nobody comes even close to garmin regarding GPS mapping capability/formats/and waypoint managment (ease of download/upload, mapsource software, etc). Raymarine sucks in this aspect, IMHO.
However, I have never liked garmin's bottomfinders. Not the format, nor the options. I have found the high-definition raymarine dsm300 with my R199 transducer to smoke anything I've ever seen with Garmin. I love my Raymarine mainly because of the bad-ass bottomfinder.
Radar, I'm not so sure about. I have a 4kw radome (analog) with my E120. Its OK I guess, seems to work good. I have not personally witnessed Garmin's radar function enough to make an opinion.
Meh, the thread was already gone by the time I brought garmin into it, and that was only to explain why RM is having problems with sales.
The consumer market is much bigger than the professional yacht market, in units as well as total dollars. RM saw this with the introduction of the sportpilot and the A line, but failed to realize they needed to eat their own market by dropping the price points of the E line to keep it's market share. The G line is for a very rarified crowd.
They simply failed to see how much of their E market really wanted a lower cost option in a networked solution.
They are also hurt by the bottom falling out of the new boat market, but they had nowhere to turn in the end. Garmin is selling a lot, so the market must exist. RM simply isn't addressing it.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
This started out as "is Raymarine going under" and has turned into a defense
of Garmin. This board can sure get out of hand sometimes.
Yes it does doesn't it. Maybe it's insecurity when people think they have to be defensive? But then maybe there might be more to some of this stuff than they want to let on. If only we knew everything about those those that made comments
__________________ The way forward in life is to first listen .......
This thread sounds like the 10'Oclock news, alot of speculation. No one has any hard facts. Did anyone stop to consider that its the height of the season and the tech guys are swamped. Everyone, myself included see's their problem as the most important thing a tech has to do. Until you spend a day in their shoes its not fair to judge. As far as people saying they dont like Raymarine's products after trying it on a buddys boat for a day, is not a fair assessment of any product. I have spent hundreds of hours in front of Raymarine's equipment, and there are plenty of things I dont know about them.
__________________ Capt. Tom Pitasi
Coastal Fishing Charters www.fish-ct.com
Raymarine Pro Ambassador
Lunker City Pro Staff
Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide
