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Autopilot: Ray ST70 vs Garmin GHP 10 vs Simrad AP28
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Autopilot: Ray ST70 vs Garmin GHP 10 vs Simrad AP28
The Boat: 2005 30' Rampage Offshore w/ Tower Engines: 315 Yanmars Steering: Simple Teleflex Sea Star Hydraulic Electronics: 3 x 10.5" Furuno VX2 Navnets (2 Down, 1 Up on NavPod) Primary Purpose: Spends most the time fishing for Bluefin Tuna off the coast of New England. This means we fish 30 miles offshore, generally in rough water, and almost exclusively troll squid bars and ballyhoo at around 5 kts.
The Story: I just took my USCG Captains Course this weekend, and was convinced to make this years boat purchase an autopilot. I talked to the old school guys on the cape, and they all directed me to the Simrad/Robertson's pilots. I was just about ready to hit the "Complete Checkout" button, and I thought it prudent to do some homework on this site. I read everything autopilot related, and did hours of more homework and now I'm really deciding between the Raymarine ST70 and the Garmin GHP 10. The Simrad system is still in the comparison as I'm not willing to just toss it out of the equation just yet.
The Facts & My Findings and Perceptions: Simrad AP28 /w AC42 Computer: Pro's: The brand has a hell of a track record for reliable performance over the years. And a very robust pump that looks like it will provide years of reliable service. The fishing patterns are somewhat limited, (compared to Raymarine) but very "techy," providing razor controls of the patterns supported. Con's: The display is very "last generation" and the system has a rudder sensor, which sounds this system sound soooo 2003. Oh, and the wireless remote is only for a "Simrad-wide" system but it also controls the autopilot and @ $800 makes it a very expensive wireless remote.
Raymarine ST70 w/ X-10 Computer: Pro's: Since we really ONLY fish, and ONLY on the troll, the stunning array of fishing patterns is the big draw here. The Snazzy color display and simple yet powerful operation make me miss my E-120 (Gone w/ Old Boat) and the lack of a rudder sensor means you don't have to deal with the single largest point of failure. Also the wireless remote is reasonably priced, and did I mention the fishing patterns look AWESOME? Con's: A bit more expensive, but then again, not really. Also, the lack of Shadow Drive offered on the Garmin units is also a glaring hole in this systems offerings. And the older Raymarine autopilots have a "Spotty" track record at best. I was out with my friend at the end of last season and we about capsized his boat when the pilot starting doing donuts around our arrival point. Yikes!
Garmin GHP 10: Pro's: Shadow Drive looks AWESOME! I am disappointed this isn't on ALL autopilots. Color monitor, super easy to use, and intuitive. NO rudder sensor is also a huge bonus. Also the slower turns at higher speeds sounds like it would fix the Raymarine use of old. Not sure if ST70 offers this last feature. Con's: Over the years I've personally always viewed Garmin marine electronics as "Toy's" compared to Raymarine & Furuno, but that's changing, and I just have to accept that! =) I looked at the instruction manual and it looks like a child could pick it up and go anywhere. Questions: I couldn't find much of anything about it's "fishing patterns." This could be the deal breaker for me with this unit. And I couldn't find anything about a wireless remote or how much it costs if there is one.
General Questions: I have a $400 Furuno heading sensor for my VX2 System to have radar overlay. Can this sensor save me from having to buy Simrad's, Raymarine's, or Garmin's compass? I'm thinking that the "gyro compasses" that Ray & Garmin offer have more going on than just heading. Will all of these integrate pretty well with my Furuno VX2 sytem?
Conclusions: I can't make my own, so please help! Any articles already written about this subject? I did a lot of homework before posting, maybe we can make this debate this year's definitive autopilot post.
I just finished an AP28 install on a 30 ft center console, Yanmar 440, and Hamilton jet drive. out of the box with no tuning she tracked within 7 degrees in a 15 KT breeze. we are still tweaking for the Jet at low speeds but she performs!
the simrad is more of a "commercial" type autopilot compared to other brands,I Like that. I also perfer a rudder transducer over Virtual or shadow feedback, gives a good indication for trouble shooting an tuning IMHO.
II install alot of Raymarine gear, Its OK, really simple to use but not as industrial.
The simnet system is NMEA 2K compatable CAN bus, but comes with an 0183 converter to interface with your NNv2. (i installed with a NN3d and NMEA2K backbone.)
I have yet to install a New Garmin, but I have had to TS a few..
Proper set up is key with all 3 Systems.
__________________ "I love you and respect you very much. But I will kill you dead before this day ends"
I do agree that the sterling reputation of the Simrad product is the biggest factor to in it still being on my list. And yes...as long as the rudder sensor is working correctly, then having a mechanical eye on your rudder is a good thing.
I sell all 4 autopilots and am authorized "brick and Mortar"for all. We mostly outfit the Florida boatbuilders that are all discussed here. We don't determine what they buy, they send us PO's. If we sell 10 AP's, 6 are Garmin, 3 are Ray and 1 is Simrad. Furuno is out of the game. And the simrad is only asked for on inboard boats or when we are outfitting a > 50 footer.
Not my opinion, just the sales facts. But Ray is increasing their share.
Great input Glen, sales numbers tell a huge chunk of the whole story!...But not the whole thing. How about you get your feet wet here and tell us what you think? Your real opinion! I'm certainly not the only one that is dying to know...and I think your opinon is extreemly valuable.
Sure..
1.the furuno is last gen - Furuno will admit that - I can't see this staying this way as Furuno is a powerhouse tech wise.
2. The simrad is antiquated with last gen display and NAVICO factory support - nuff said there...
3. The Ray is very nice and can be triggered from the new chartplotters - and it works very well
4.The Garmin has a few teething problems with their pump valving but still works very well and has shadow drive
my choice? Garmin for the shadow drive....
and not trying to start a fight here but NOBODY cares about fishing patterns in the grand scheme of things - I have sold maybe 100 pilots since Jan and not one has said "which one has the best patterns?" All that extra fancy stuff is not what sells pilots - going straight in a following sea, ease of use/color display, tracking north and reliability is what sells them.
I guess if all things were even...then we could make the decision just on the fishing patterns... lol. Do you have any info or can you direct me to info on the Garmins fishing patterns.
I guess if all things were even...then we could make the decision just on the fishing patterns... lol. Do you have any info or can you direct me to info on the Garmins fishing patterns.
Download the quick start manual for the GHP 10 on the website it shows all of the available patterns.
Thanks! For anyone else who's interested, it's on the manuals download page but it's burried between other language manuals in the middle of the page. Keep looking, you'll find it...and if you don't, here's a link: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/2953_...tartmanual.pdf
Well it looks like the Garmin and the Raymarine have very comparable fishing patterns. There is some differences in when and where the boat initiates the pattern, with the edge probably going to the Raymarine, but the Garmin isn't far off; the pattern logic is a bit easier to understand on the Garmin but a bit more powerful on the Raymarine. The fact that I don't have a Raymarine system that can control the autopilot from the system would lean me towards the Garmin for the Shadow Drive...a huge and undeniably awesome feature. Depending on your personal hierarchy of needs, the Shadow Drive is probably a strong enough offering to even sway Raymarine system owners over to the Garmin. Of course trading the system control of the pilot for the Shadow Drive as they are mutually exclusive.
Glen- Why is Furuno out of the game (sincere question)? I would think that with the Sat Compass the Furuno would outperform anything else beside maybe a Comnav unit. I'm in the middle of making this same decision on a boat (44', 14' beam, 2'6 draft, >20,000#) and was about to buy the Furuno to replace the Raymarine which keeps dying. Any help is appreciated.
Glen- Why is Furuno out of the game (sincere question)? I would think that with the Sat Compass the Furuno would outperform anything else beside maybe a Comnav unit. I'm in the middle of making this same decision on a boat (44', 14' beam, 2'6 draft, >20,000#) and was about to buy the Furuno to replace the Raymarine which keeps dying. Any help is appreciated.
I think our conversation is for boats less than 35 feet here and not their hi-seas stuff. They are out of the game now as their unit is still rudder feedback and the display is lcd vs other's daylight readable displays. Reliability is not an issue.
Well it looks like the Garmin and the Raymarine have very comparable fishing patterns. There is some differences in when and where the boat initiates the pattern, with the edge probably going to the Raymarine, but the Garmin isn't far off; the pattern logic is a bit easier to understand on the Garmin but a bit more powerful on the Raymarine. The fact that I don't have a Raymarine system that can control the autopilot from the system would lean me towards the Garmin for the Shadow Drive...a huge and undeniably awesome feature. Depending on your personal hierarchy of needs, the Shadow Drive is probably a strong enough offering to even sway Raymarine system owners over to the Garmin. Of course trading the system control of the pilot for the Shadow Drive as they are mutually exclusive.
you dont have to use a raymarine pilot with Sea talk, the have NMEA 0183 interfacing as well
__________________ "I love you and respect you very much. But I will kill you dead before this day ends"
I think the winner here is clearly the Garmin. The more I talk to autopilot veterans, the more they say Shadow Drive is this the best feature to hit an autopilot in years. When you motor through 12 miles of lobster pots and high fliers, often in the thick fog like we do here East of Cape Cod, the fact you can manually steer the boat to avoid a minor hazard and seamlessly have the pilot take back over is simply awesome. Not buttons to press, no need to take your eyes off the road, or the radar screen.
Depending on your personal hierarchy of needs, the Shadow Drive is probably a strong enough offering to even sway Raymarine system owners over to the Garmin. Of course trading the system control of the pilot for the Shadow Drive as they are mutually exclusive.
I am in the same boat as you. Need to get an AP installed this summer. Either gonna be a RM or a Garmin.
Since all my electronics is RM. The RM unit will nicely integrated into the RM multi-display. As for the Garmin - Shadow Drive is a very very strong consideration.
The ability to take back control of the boat at an instant notice is SAFETY. After avoiding the hazard - to have the AP take control again without doing nothing is true CONVENIENCE.
Chances are it will be a Garmin GHP 10 w/ the 2.1 pump.
I recently went thru the same dilema on my Contender and chose the ST70 x10 due to everything else on boat being Raymarine. Shadow drive was def a considerations pointing towards the Garmin, but, chose Raymarine in the end. AP is now installed but crappy weather has kept me from giving it a run.
I guess shadow drive doesn't mean much to me. I mostly goto a waypoint. The shadow drive is a point and it goes there option. I don't see the advantage...
If I have a crab bouy in the way, I just turn the wheel and then the AP puts me back on course...what's the big deal?
Hewes you know better than that....I know you love ray but shadow drive is not a gadget or "not needed". Ray knows it and agrees it is a valid, important feature.
That is not what shadow drive does...shadow drive is an actual series of valves that shut off the pump and let you steer IMMEDIATELY -unlike others that just bind up the pump...it has nothing to do with "going to a waypoint" - and if you try this with a Simrad you'll destroy the pump....
and it's also damn impressive that Ray was touting it's integration on it's new units between chartplotter and AP...Only on the new stuff but still impressive
Then Gamin comes along and knocks that advantage out of the game by integrating it in all their new and old machines with their latest bi-monthly software upgrade....that's even more impressive!
Autopilot: Ray ST70 vs Garmin GHP 10 vs Simrad AP28 
