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Random Quote: CAPTAIN...one SMART enough to drive a boat and STUPID enough to think it's important!
Furuno’s NN3d system has taken plotter Radar and sonar combos to the next level of sophistication and capability. I have an MDF-8 on the fastest boat Ive seen with this set up.
–Guys- this approaching avionics level true situational awareness.
<note I didn’t necessarily say user friendliness, but in terms of absolute capability this systems in without equal. >
Yesterday I navigated for Marina Del Rey to Long Beach then Newport and back in 0-1/4 Mile visibility completely on radar and plotter. As a boating day it was terrible, as a navigational experience it was mind altering-
Leaving Del Rey heading South we hit a fog bank so thick it was like riding a motorcycle through the rain-It stayed that way most of the day scattering between alternating ranges from 1M to 6ft visibility in unpredictable patches.
I came in blind to Long Beach my first time in this rig the fog The experience was something just shy of what Sulu must experience while space docking the enterprise.
I hear lots of moaning about the maps, but in my are the vector and raster’s provide tons of useful info.
The blazing speed of the Radar combined with the update speed of the plotter allowed me to drive right through big fast commercial traffic and to cruise right up to my local hangout completely by instrument. The update speed allows you to look around without changing ranges or suffering update penalties
Anyone who tells you speed isn’t that important in a plotter radar combo is a poser. When you cant see jack and commercial business combined with hapless amateurs are all around you - you want updates on your situation RIGHT NOW.
This is an exceptional piece of equipment. The check you cut will be meaningless when you get caught in a situation like I did yesterday.
What gerg said. Back in the day, I did the same thing in absolute pea soup fog with a 2KW radar and the fishfinder.
I am a Furuno fan, although I think their way of doing business leaves much to be desired, but I will only invest in their 3D product when it is actually finished developing and is ready for the public. I don't appreciate being the guniea pig which is why I bought NN2 instead. Although less future capability, it actually works today.
I've done all of that and more with 5 year old technology. What exactly is the advantage (or is it just new to furuno)?
Yeah So have I.
- I did it with 20 year old technology- loran-c and an MArs vigil radar.
I used to work for a place called Skipper marine electronics in the late 80's and 90's. and taught poeple how to use these tools for a living- but the technology was no where near hwere it is today youd never see these tools then on a 28ft boat.
The advantage is - it wasnt nearly as easy, and required lots of individual components and wasnt nearly this slick.
What gerg said. Back in the day, I did the same thing in absolute pea soup fog with a 2KW radar and the fishfinder.
I am a Furuno fan, although I think their way of doing business leaves much to be desired, but I will only invest in their 3D product when it is actually finished developing and is ready for the public. I don't appreciate being the guniea pig which is why I bought NN2 instead. Although less future capability, it actually works today.
Nice try though.
I get it- that said- as the marine industry moves to more and more sophisticated software based products running on a common platform you'll find that products will be in an eternal state of development.
Working in the software business I can guarantee you this- this is why you still need to buy upgrades for microsoft word.
NN2 is a great system-
NN3 certainly works- does it do everything the hardware is capable of no, but does it "work" I beg to differ with you - It certainly does work and it works quite elegantly.
Maybe so, and I'm not trying to take anything away from the newest stuff, but it just isn't that revolutionary, even on a 28 foot boat. Mine was only 25 feet. so what?
Are the charts better now? Yup. Is the radar better? Marginally. Sounder technology? Marginally. Integration? Not so much.
Is the new stuff good? Yes, but I can't get so excited over it I gush endlessly. It just isn't game changing technology. Not yet.
If you have the money, and want the latest and someday greatest, go for it.
But as a software developer, ask yourself at what revision are your largest customers deployed on? Exchange 2003 is still the gold standard in most large corporations. They use it because it works and because it's stable. Do they test the latest? Yes, but the corporate standard is N-1 or N-2 technology, not N+1.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
The ability to fuse chart and radar, sounder while select my own screen style of displaying all these inputs - in 2d-3d or both concurrently - plus multiple cameras & dvd player in an single 8" unit is impressive to me.
(I have my issues with the unit believe me but in all I'm impressed)
What do you consider game changing/revolutionary if this capability is not?
How about totally integrated units between manufacturers, with the abitlity to virtualize the hardware so I can run it on any combination of servers I want, and change out any piece without destroying the whole. Not all of us need equipment that can sit out in the cockpit unprotected.
How about going open standards on the interfaces so someone like you can sell me a really hot applet or plugin or interface? How about automatic downloads of sw updates and upgrades?
Oh, and while we are at it, how about a Private AIS system where I can see not only where boats in my "group" are, but the ability to see what is on their displays, including video.
I can integrate chart, radar, and sonar today. I can get bathymetric charts and 3d bottom contouring. I can get sat weather with crude sst info. It's all kewl.
But even NN3 is a closed, proprietary platform that has a very costly lock-in. Once you go down that road, you really have very little choice. No choice is not good, even when the product is top-quality.
And to be perfectly honest, even my old RM gear is more than good enough when you get right down to it. Yeah, there are people who will buy a new bmw or mercedes every two years, but you don't really need to. And since these product packages can cost you $15k without really trying, it isn't much different than buying a new car every two years.
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Terry Jason 35, Yanmar 370 hp, Lots of fun at a leisurely pace
How about totally integrated units between manufacturers, with the abitlity to virtualize the hardware so I can run it on any combination of servers I want, and change out any piece without destroying the whole. Not all of us need equipment that can sit out in the cockpit unprotected.
How about going open standards on the interfaces so someone like you can sell me a really hot applet or plugin or interface? How about automatic downloads of sw updates and upgrades?
Oh, and while we are at it, how about a Private AIS system where I can see not only where boats in my "group" are, but the ability to see what is on their displays, including video.
I can integrate chart, radar, and sonar today. I can get bathymetric charts and 3d bottom contouring. I can get sat weather with crude sst info. It's all kewl.
But even NN3 is a closed, proprietary platform that has a very costly lock-in. Once you go down that road, you really have very little choice. No choice is not good, even when the product is top-quality.
And to be perfectly honest, even my old RM gear is more than good enough when you get right down to it. Yeah, there are people who will buy a new bmw or mercedes every two years, but you don't really need to. And since these product packages can cost you $15k without really trying, it isn't much different than buying a new car every two years.
Thanks Gerg,
I needed that reality check as I am trying to decide what direction to go in with my new gear purchases.
How about totally integrated units between manufacturers, with the abitlity to virtualize the hardware so I can run it on any combination of servers I want, and change out any piece without destroying the whole. Not all of us need equipment that can sit out in the cockpit unprotected.
How about going open standards on the interfaces so someone like you can sell me a really hot applet or plugin or interface? How about automatic downloads of sw updates and upgrades?
Oh, and while we are at it, how about a Private AIS system where I can see not only where boats in my "group" are, but the ability to see what is on their displays, including video.
I can integrate chart, radar, and sonar today. I can get bathymetric charts and 3d bottom contouring. I can get sat weather with crude sst info. It's all kewl.
But even NN3 is a closed, proprietary platform that has a very costly lock-in. Once you go down that road, you really have very little choice. No choice is not good, even when the product is top-quality.
And to be perfectly honest, even my old RM gear is more than good enough when you get right down to it. Yeah, there are people who will buy a new bmw or mercedes every two years, but you don't really need to. And since these product packages can cost you $15k without really trying, it isn't much different than buying a new car every two years.
and who is delivering this or coming closest to it?
Acid test - hardly. The acid test is when you shell out your own hard earned dollars to buy a not yet 100% chartplotting system and find out your now trashed 6 year old Raymarine chartplotter worked better. The use of someone else's system to go through pea soup fog that would keep the prudent boater at the dock is no acid test. It is called fooling around - at best.
Acid test - hardly. The acid test is when you shell out your own hard earned dollars to buy a not yet 100% chartplotting system and find out your now trashed 6 year old Raymarine chartplotter worked better. The use of someone else's system to go through pea soup fog that would keep the prudent boater at the dock is no acid test. It is called fooling around - at best.
Quite the value added thread you posted.
What do you mean "someone elses system"? <This is my system and boat.>
Do you own a NN3d system?
Which units and options did you get?
Lets see some picts.
I definitely have issues, but am highly impressed at the same time.
Dave......i appreciate the post and think maybe you should post some screenshots of the radar overlay. In your defense, i think the people who like the NN3d are probably out on their boat and not complaining about it's shortcomings.....no offense to you guys complaining/putting Dave down.
Uncle Dave: A serious question - I note you have the dome, what are your thoughts on a 4' open array with 4 vs 6kw. I'm looking at 2 stations with hub for all connection stuff etc. Just waiting for Furuno to announce final chapter for PNW charting upgrades.
I have the 4KW dome, I chose the upgraded dome over an open array for a 2 main reasons.
My boat is really low profile and the dome is only about 7-8 feet off the water putting the radars horizon at about 3.5 - 5 miles max - not very far. Its close enough to not have discrimination issues or low level quantization issues with that much power even with the dome unit at that short a distance.
Power consumption is far less as the motor is designed and sized to turn with no wind resistance. I lake camp and use alarm modes a lot and an willing to sacrifice additional bean tightness and power for lower consumption as my range is limited by the height of the arch more than the power of the radar.
The furuno open arrays are wicked cool, but a waste of machinery for my purposes. The 4KW can get sponged up in a squall whereas the 6 will likely punch through- not a well as an S band system but the extra 2KW on top of the 4 will punch through rain better and get you more discrimination at the horizon.
I personally dont need to see that far especially with an AIS receiver and an integrated plotter.
Sounds awesome - Im envious.... make sure to show us all pictures!
Furuno’s NN3D- The acid test 
