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Old 08-11-2008, 09:14 PM
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Default Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

Well, I've finally decided what I'm going to try as my first boat electronics project. I am going to start with a single Garmin 4212 MFD to replace my existing gauges. On the Garmin Marine Network I'm adding a GSD 22 digital sounder, connected to a 200/50KHz, 10/40 degree transducer with depth and temp (my bay is too weedy to bother with speed, the F150's speedo has already been lost to the mud.) I'm sticking with the Garmin GPS 17N GPS module (assuming that's what they still come with, somewhere I read that the 17x HVS was replacing them but Garmin's site still says the 4212 comes with the 17N.) Garmin tried to convince me to go with the 17x NMEA 2000 GPS to give me a basic N2K network. Since GPS data can be exchanged between Garmin Marine Network units via their network, not sure why I'd want the GPS on N2K. What else might want GPS data on the N2K network? (Auto-pilot, maybe?)

I do plan to put a second MFD in, but probably not until next year. Perhaps by then they'll have figured out how to send NMEA 2000 data over their network so the engine only needs to be connected to one of their MFDs. The argument against it is that networks like the Garmin Marine Network, or Ethernet networks, are too slow/congested to deal with Real-Time data. This is pure bull considering we're only talking about 3 devices on a 100Mbit network, but it’s totally meaningless when all you want is to receive data...it only matters if you can't send data to real-time controllers. So it might make a difference if I was going to steer the boat, or alter the throttle, but if all I want to know is whether the engine cooling water pressure has gone too high, Ethernet is more than capable. Personally, I'm betting that the Ethernet-based networks are going to get more traction because they'll work for a large market segment. Sure, big boats may very well need CANnet technology, but there are more smaller boats and more Ethernet manufacturers...so volume is likely to win out. Tell someone their GPS tower can easily be turned into an antenna for their EVDO and become a WAP for all their PAN wireless devices and they're more likely to buy something, IMO.

Unfortunately, I still need an N2K network, to get the data from the motor to the 4212. I don't want the Yamaha Command-Link itself, just the data from the motor. The Maretron MARE-003 adapter will do this for me. I got Command-Link wiring diagrams from Yamaha today and confirmed with Maretron that the F150 ECU's 4P (4 pin, but only 2 wire) connector is at one end of the MARE-003. The other end is a Micro Male N2K connector, so I'll have to drop into a N2K reducing T (drop is Micro, backbone connectors are Mini since that's what the Garmin wants.)

I believe that N2K network backbone cable will drop another T at the Garmin 4212 and then terminate.

I'm looking for a good supplier of N2K field installable connectors in the Toronto, Ontario area. Let me know if you know one.

The GSD 22 will be plugged into the Garmin part number 010-00272-00 transducer. Not sure which model Airmar this is. That will cable to the GSD 22 which I will mount in my console (makes for a shorter Garmin Marine Network cable to the console's 4212, and shorter to the future MFD at the front of the boat.) I have a Garmin 90 now and believe the transducer is a dual beam, but only single frequency, transducer (again, bad on Bennington for shipping such an expensive boat with the cheapest Garmin products, only good part is the FF and transducer were included in the Bennington price with no better options available.)

I am assuming that the Garmin Marine Network cable is simple CAT 5, with fancy ends on it to keep it water-proof. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I haven't seen field installable Garmin Marine Network cable ends, does anyone know where I can buy these?

My dealer's Yamaha mechanic is going to do the actual installation; I'll be doing the "design." Since its hard to say just how much wire is going to be needed I'd rather use bulk wire and field installable cable ends for everything than come up short with pre-cut cables.

I have been toying with the idea of putting in a second MFD connection point at the front of the boat. The idea being, maybe I'll just pull the first MFD and mount it at the front of the boat when I'm fishing from that point. At this point I'm leaning towards not doing this as I'm unsure about how difficult it will be put pull the MFD from the first location and then terminate that location (I believe I'd have to put terminators on all of the cables at the first location for the network to be "complete??")

Well, that's it for now, any suggestions or thoughts I should consider? If it isn't clear, I won't have any gauges for the motor other than the 4212. I feel like I'm making a leap of faith here, but I understand computer networking and know that as long as things are kept intact there shouldn't be any reason for it to die. With only two vendors involved, there shouldn't be problems after the initial setup is done.

FWIW, I am adding a Maretron USB100 and getting their N2K Analyzer software to do my setup. This should allow me to figure out what's available on the network and decide how to display it on the Garmin MFD. At least that's what I hope.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

lmao......
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

lol, I love making some ltao for no particular reason. If their was a suggestion there, I missed it.

Come on, tell me, what part really made your ass start to get out of your control?
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

Garmin network cable ends are available on their website. Garmin uses Cat5e crossover cables as proprietory.
Good luck,
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

Thanks Ethan!
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Old 08-16-2008, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

Quote:
Ethan - 8/12/2008 7:55 PM

Garmin network cable ends are available on their website. Garmin uses Cat5e crossover cables as proprietory.
Good luck,
Call tech support and they will give you some free...
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Garmin 4212 + GSD22 + Yamaha F150 Project

Update, FWIW:

Some installation notes.

Maretron's NMEA 2000 (N2K) network diagrams are extremely misleading. They indicate a PowerTap Tee to provide power to the network. That's fine, it works great, but the problem is it is Female - Female on the backbone. This is unlike every other Tee they sell, and contrary to the whole Male - Female notion of N2K networking. Their reasoning is not unreasonable; they want to be able to allow for two separate power lines from the battery to the network. This would allow for less power loss over longer lengths. Unfortunately, they don't state that the Tee is F-F. So I bought a male and female terminator when in fact I needed both to be male. We simply cut one of our short pre-made N2K cables in half and patched the cable so we created an M-M patch cable, put it at the end of the bus, and put the other terminator there.

Garmin 4212 and NMEA 2000 (N2K) data:

One of the most important pieces of data I wanted to display on my 4212 was engine cooling water pressure. I live in a weedy bay and I regularly pick up weeds that block the tell-tale. My Yamaha F150’s ECU delivers cooling water pressure to the N2K network, but the 4212 can’t display it. Garmin’s N2K documentation state that they can display the PGN that the cooling water pressure is contained in, but Garmin simply ignores that field from the PGN.

Many have noted that various “certified” products opt to display only select fields from PGNs. IMO; this is a serious oversight by NMEA in its certification process. One should not be able to claim to display a PGN unless, and only if, they can display all components from that PGN. If NMEA needs to revise PGNs to extract unused/less used/problematic fields then so be it.

I can’t for the life of me understand why a Garmin 4212 doesn’t allow you to set a data field to any N2K PGN and field combination I choose…just displaying the raw numeric value. That would at least let me see my water pressure.

My solution, until Garmin updates their software many years from now, was to purchase a Yamaha digital tachometer. We simply dropped in another T in the N2K network and soldered a Yamaha end on a cut Maretron cable and we were away to the races. I would have been much happier with a Lowrance LMF-200 at one third the price, but I could only find 2 retailers within 100 miles that even knew what NMEA 2000 meant, and neither had a unit in stock. The Yamaha gauge was in-stock at my installer’s shop, so the price became a moot point.

Garmin 4212 software updates:

So I noticed here that new software was available for the 4212 from August 21. Great, so I downloaded it. But then I tried to figure out how to get it onto the Garmin. The 4212 doesn’t come with any SD cards at all, so you have to go out and buy one (you only need 200MB, so you can buy one for <$10.) Spend thousands of dollars only to end up at Wal-Mart to make the stuff work properly! Dumb idea Garmin; ship it with the dirt cheap SD card! I have the BlueChart g2 Vision card, and it has ~600MB free on it, and will allow me to copy the Garmin update onto it. But when I called Garmin and asked if the 4212 would see the update on that card they said “it might not.” Great answer! So I guess I got to get a small SD card. I’ve got an 8GB one, but cannot use it because the software on the 4212 can’t read SD above 2GB…that functionality is part of the update I’m trying to load. Geez.

Garmin 4212 and BlueChart g2 Vision SD cards:

You have to love the warnings from BlueChart. The card is not water-proof, so remove it when it’s not in use. Uh huh…so why wouldn’t Garmin make the cover for the slot water-proof so you could leave it in? Who knows, maybe they even do, but they don’t state it and won’t say when asked. What would it take, a simple gasket? Just one more thing I have to take off the boat when I get home…together with my iPod, my phone, my smokes, etc…

Boat goes in the water tomorrow, so we’ll finally see how all this works together.
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