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Purchased all the equipment for a Raymarine E series network (2 displays, sounder, network switch, auto pilot, radar, gps) and ALL of their intall instructions conflict and confuse! God Almaighty, you have to be a bloody genius to figure it out! All of you that said, "piece of cake", "no problem", are full of it, and I'm pissed 'cuz I assumed I'd get good advice on here and could save some serious install fees. NO WAY!!!!
For example: is the NMEA connection to the display input or output only? If input, why does the diagram show DSC radio connectability when this radio only accepts input TO ITSELF? Also, the SeaTalk/Alarm out connection from the display has 6 wires, but the auto pilot SeaTalk connection is only 3 wires- how the heck does that ad up?? If all of these items (sounder, displays, switch, etc. need to be powered/grounded individually, how is that done? These are but a small sampling of the unintelligable instructions for a network that is supposed to be "plug/play".
The confusion goes on and on, and when I call Raymarine the tech is as clueless as I am, and gives me more conflicting info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just worry that even a "Factory trained technision" installing the equipment won't know what he/she is doing. Heck, I have 15K worth of equipment in my living room and I have no idea how it will ever get in my boat- lovely!
Sorry to vent, but my advice to anyone thinking of putting in a "network system" themselves is DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the problem is that every installer will have a differant method/standard, so you the boat owner will never really understand the system once it's installed. There doesn't seem to be any "best/common practices" when installing electronics.
Hey, but it all looks really cool in my living room! I get a lot of "ooh, aahh" comments when friends come over!
You're right about the instructions. They seem to be taiwanese or japanese translations; but, you should be able to sift through them. Sometimes you have to refer to the internal wiring diagrams (if you have them) to figure some issues out.
That being said, where are you located. Many of us are more than willing to donate time and expertise if your reasonably near.
I'd also suggest a valium or several brews to calm you down.
griffgil-
Put it aside for a bit and take a deep breath.
It is doable - I know couase I did my Garmin network and believe me I'm no electrical genius.
What helped me was that I put the sytem all 'together' on my living room floor to see how it all worked. Any install issues became much clearer to me this way. I also hard wired as much as I could on a piece of starboard in the living room to limit the amount of wiring I would have to do in the cramped confines of the boat.
I'm not familiar with the aymarine setup but I would think it's not too much different from the Garmin. Garmins instructions were not great either but as you lay out the components the logic of the assembly becomes clearer w/o instructions.
That said I know when I would get frustrated I would leave it for a while and come back to it-hard to accurately strip a 22 guage wire with steam coming out of your ears!
Why don't you try to find a installer that will just do the wiring for you ,you install everything , run the wires and let the professional do his job.
griffgil1 - 7/20/2007 4:21 AM
For example: is the NMEA connection to the display input or output only? If input, why does the diagram show DSC radio connectability when this radio only accepts input TO ITSELF?
The NMEA in & out are BOTH used. First off, you didn't say which VHF radio you got. If it was Raymarine, and it wasn't the Ray218, you don't have a DSC out, and will not be able to plot received DSC messages on your chartplotter. If you can, return the radio and get either a Ray218 or an ICOM (the M604 is my recommendation). Then, with either the 218 or the ICOM, you will have NMEA in and NMEA out and the ability to get DSC information on the plotter.
You will then need a NMEA multiplexer (MUX, about $120 or so) to combine the heading information from your autopilot (AP) with the DSC information (NMEA out) from the VHF that you're gonna get. Why send the AP heading information via NMEA to the display? Because you want the fast heading information to allow for radar overlay on your chartplotter. You put the NMEA out from your AP on port 1 of the MUX, and the NMEA out from your VHF on port 2. You then connect the output of the MUX to the input of the display. Follow so far?
Quote:
Also, the SeaTalk/Alarm out connection from the display has 6 wires, but the auto pilot SeaTalk connection is only 3 wires- how the heck does that ad up??
SeaTalk is only three wires. The red is power, the black is ground, and the yellow is data. With the setup you have described, you would have SeaTalk between the display and the AP and the GPS antenna. From the AP, you would also have a connection to the AP control head. SeaTalk is easy. Match red to red, black to black, and yellow to yellow. The Alarm out is if you want to have an external sounder to go off if an alarm situation exists. If you don't use them, tape them off.
Quote:
If all of these items (sounder, displays, switch, etc. need to be powered/grounded individually, how is that done? These are but a small sampling of the unintelligable instructions for a network that is supposed to be "plug/play".
To power/ground each item, you run the power leads from them (with an appropriate fuse or circuit breaker) to a bus bar. The DSM is very voltage sensitive, so use BIG wire and fuse it right off the battery. With the other items, they are less sensitive and can go to the bus I just mentioned. On my boat, I have the display, AP, radar, and sounder all on their own switches, so I don't have to turn off the battery to turn off the units.
The important thing is to take a deep breath and PLAN IT OUT! Figure out where each component is going to live, and draw out how you are going to connect everything together. The SeaTalk HS (ethernet) is easy, plug and play. The SeaTalk is also easy, match the colors and ensure that you have good, solid connections. The toughest part is the NMEA interconnections. REMEMBER - a NMEA 0183 out can go to multiple (2 - 3) NMEA ins. BUT, a NMEA 0183 in can only receive from a SINGLE SOURCE. That's why, if you get a VHF radio with DSC out capability, you need the MUX to combine the NMEA out from the radio with the NMEA out from the AP and send it to the NMEA in on the display.
With both installations (last boat and this boat) I have had NMEA connection issues. It isn't easy, and you have to be carefull to match up the OUTs and INs and the positives and negatives correctly.
1. Do what mymojo said and wire here up in your living room. Use a battery to provide power so you can actually check to make sure everything works. When it does, make good notes of how you did it. Take a few digital pictures as well.
2. Your best bet is to find a THT member who has the same system. Kindly ask him to diagram (or take pictures) of the electric connections. No need to translate in/out/ground/nmea jargon if you have the pictures in front of you.
I did my own install and it was not bad. BUT I forgot to document everything so when I've had to go back and trouble shoot a few things after the fact it has not been as easy as I'd like it to be so make sure once it's all together and working you document exactly how everything is connected.
and I'm pissed 'cuz I assumed I'd get good advice on here and could save some serious install fees. NO WAY!!!!
Wow, you're pissed because you didn't get "good advice" from a freakin message board? That kind of money and you depended on complete strangers with unknown credentials for installation advice for equipment that requires exacting (if not complicated) procedures? Wow, there really might have been one born that day.
The NMEA in & out are BOTH used. First off, you didn't say which VHF radio you got. If it was Raymarine, and it wasn't the Ray218, you don't have a DSC out, and will not be able to plot received DSC messages on your chartplotter. If you can, return the radio and get either a Ray218 or an ICOM (the M604 is my recommendation). Then, with either the 218 or the ICOM, you will have NMEA in and NMEA out and the ability to get DSC information on the plotter.
You will then need a NMEA multiplexer (MUX, about $120 or so) to combine the heading information from your autopilot (AP) with the DSC information (NMEA out) from the VHF that you're gonna get. Why send the AP heading information via NMEA to the display? Because you want the fast heading information to allow for radar overlay on your chartplotter. You put the NMEA out from your AP on port 1 of the MUX, and the NMEA out from your VHF on port 2. You then connect the output of the MUX to the input of the display. Follow so far?
I tried to combine the NMEA out from my DSC VHF to the NMEA in on my C80 which already had the NMEA in directly from the GPS sensor, figuring I could just "add" the DSC signal to the mix, and it didn't work as he's stated. I wasn't aware there was a multiplexer that could do this. I planned on eventually rewiring it all so that the NMEA out from the GPS sensor would feed the VHF and use the NMEA out from the VHF to feed the C80, Pilot, and sounder.
tobnpr - 7/20/2007 11:37 AM
I tried to combine the NMEA out from my DSC VHF to the NMEA in on my C80 which already had the NMEA in directly from the GPS sensor, figuring I could just "add" the DSC signal to the mix, and it didn't work as he's stated. I wasn't aware there was a multiplexer that could do this. I planned on eventually rewiring it all so that the NMEA out from the GPS sensor would feed the VHF and use the NMEA out from the VHF to feed the C80, Pilot, and sounder.
tobnpr,
Depending on what you have to connect, you may have to modify which items to put into which ports on the MUX. If you have GPS, Autopilot, and DSC VHF, I would put them into ports 1 - 3 in the order I have them listed. There should be no need to put NMEA into your sounder. That's connected via a different, dedicated cable.
Wait until you get the AIS250 (highly recommended!). You'll need to modify your connections, but not by too much. I have the AIS, and it's PRETTY COOL.
OK. First an appology for venting on the forum- I actually appreciate the input and help I get here. Just bit off more than I can chew (maybe) and am swimming in wiring diagrams, instructions, etc.
Specifically: I have the Ray 125 radiao, which only has a NMEA in connection. I was told by Raymarine, and it is in the literature, that I can wire the GPS into the NMEA IN at the the A.P. computer, and out the NMEA OUT from the computer to another instrument (e.g. radio?). Question: Will all these NMEA connections show up on the SeaTalk network, e.g. display, overlay, etc.?? In otherwords, how do all the NMEA connections "talk" to the SeaTalk network?
I guess I should leave it at that one question for now so I don't go "swimming" again
Calm yourself! Sure you're tense and irritable, but don't take it out on others! What you need is [insert current favorite medication or beverage.]
Lets consider the facts: you are technically competent to use a computer, find this web site, and make the call. For the most part, you speak in complete sentances, articulately, and with due regard for spelling errors. In fact, your Mamma din raise no fool. You probably have a degree from a prominent Liberal Arts College, which is the root of your troubles. You have never socialized with an Engineer. This is perfectly understandable; they are not social creatures. They speak an arcane, english-like patoise devoid of important things like adverbs. And verbs. Your frustration is enevitable.
There is a solution: get a referral from your physician for advanced therapy for Stress. Then hire a competent installer who will bill you by the hour for Neural Reallignment and Stress Resolution. Write it off your income tax. Be happy, but at any cost, do not allow yourself to believe that you could do all this if you just concentrated harder. Some men spend most of their life, and all of their money trying to catch fish. Others just order one, already cooked.
__________________
If it ain't broke, I haven't played with it.
i found it easier to install one pice at a time.just went through the same on a donzi with 2 e 120.one piece at a time went alot smoother than a box of wires.all of it together is a little overwelming
Just a thought for the "for future reference" file.. Raymarine's website has all the installation/user manuals for most of their products, including the e-series available online..While recently researching electronics for my new boat I was able to quickly determine by looking at the manuals that the installs where way over my head..I still went with the E-80 system, but I'm having it installed.. The other nice thing is I've been able to study the user's manuals, so I'll have a good idea how to operate it by the time it gets installed..
if you can pull wires, mount your equipment, and connect them to a power source, then that is most of the battle. after you accomplish that, run all your interfacing cables to a central location.
then post here about what equipment you have, and we can tell you how to interface it.
buy a terminal strip and a waterproof housing, and make the connections.
you may have to go through some setup menus, which someone here can probably help you with. worst case, you might have to call tech support and have them walk you through the setup.
from the looks of it, you have a pretty straightforward electronics package. if you want to see something complicated, come to work with me for a day and i'll give you the tour.
as flattered as i am, it does not take a genious to do this kind of work.
Thanks for all the replies! I'm still swimming, but "getting it" a little more. BTW, can someone explain a boat's grounding system to me??? There are so many differing references to grounding (earth ground, screen, RF ground, main grounding bus, ground directly to the battery, etc., etc.) that I am lost. Also, can I ground my radar array running on 24v from a 12-24V converter, to the main ground bus, which is the boat's 12v system ground? Every piece of equipment has differant references to grounding!
Hey, a few more adult beverages and I'm good to go!
You have 15K worth of equiptment in your house and you are going crazy trying to install it. After spending 15K whats a few more $'s. Pay a professional to do it right.
first install a fuse block at a central location where you can wire up all your new electronics to. blue seas makes a nice one,run your supply leads to the house battery #8 size wires. the negative of the house battery is your ground .all your devices get power from the fuse block. connect the appropriate antennae's to the corresponding device .that should leave you with the just the seatalk connections do the interfacing last and have the install manuals for all the devices dope it out on paper and have at it.if you get this far and need help call raymarine tech support
Anyone saying "install your own" is INSANE!!!
= Google
