The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Go Back   The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Marine Electronics Forum
Search

Notices

Random Quote: The fastest way to make something obsolete is to buy it
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-22-2006, 08:31 AM
  #1    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 446
Default Rewire boat?

THTers,

I am thinking about tackling a complete rewire of my 1973 Robalo 23'CC. I have good experience with electronics (degree in engineering), but not alot of marine electronics expertise. (mostly microelectronics PCB, SMT, etc) I have been researching some decent resources for this on the net and found a couple of popular books on the subject namely,

1. "Powerboater's Guide to Electrical Systems: Maintenace, Troubleshooting, and Improvements"

2. "The 12-Volt Bible for Boats"

3. "Boatowner's Illustrated Handbook of Wiring"

I don't envision the boat will be that difficult but looking to get it done and done right.
I want to design a full-color schematic (probably in Visio for simplicity sakes just for graphical representation), make sure everything is labeled when complete, & clean bright and tight. (and heat shrinked) I am aware of using proper lube (dielectric grease) on connections & bus power distribution bars. Is there special marine grade copper strand to help with the inherent vibrations on the connections? Any recommendations on the type of terminal connectors to use, assuming all soldered connections? Any other tips of tricks with getting this done right the first time? Anyone use any of these written resources above for knowledge or assistance?

Rewiring Reason: Nothing is labeled right now and I have a few pieces of equipment that "are not powering up" after visit to idiot shop and I REALLY don't trust their work, plus "Santa is bringing a few extra 12v goodies for the boat", & basically I would just feel better since it appears that the wiring is a ratnest and probably could use some tidying up at the very least. (plus some of the connectors appear questionable at this point) - I figured I had to go through it all to get some stuff working, I might as well do it right....after all I just paid a bunch of fools at Broddick's Boat Works in Hammond, LA to do it as part of my $$$ bill, but apparently it is "my fault" as "it was working when it left here" ---- Don't get me started on that place.

Thanks for all input!
saintroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 08:39 AM
  #2    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OIB NC
Posts: 2,161
Default Re: Rewire boat?

I'm not an engnieer and I completely re-wired an 85 Parker two years ago and have yet to have one component fail. If you konw you can do it right, wiring it yourself will give you the best piece of mind that everything will function properly and that you will know how to troubleshoot and repair a problem if you have one out on the water.
__________________
Mac Solo
1985 25' Parker Sou'Wester---2005 F250 Yamaha

originalsin is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 12-22-2006, 09:05 AM
  #3    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 7,341
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Get your wire at http://www.bestboatwire.com/ - nice people, very fast, and excellent prices. Measure what you think you need then buy about 30% more. Remember that the fewer wires you have from the transom to the console, the better - so run one main power wire up there if you can, and then split it off inside the console. (distribution block)

You only want to use "marine" wire. It is stranded copper wire but each strand is tinned so that it does not oxidize. You will pay out the nose for it locally which is why I suggest the website above.

Use regular compression (crimp) fittings. Then solder if you like. Put heat shrink or liquid electrical tape (messy but good) on top. Buy a quality (blue sea) distribution block and/or switch block. Run all your wires, bundle them together, and leave a couple feet extra at the console side so that you can finish all your connections to switches etc while drinking a beer and sitting down, not while working upside down in your console dripping solder on your forehead.

DON'T remove a single piece of old wire without tying a heavy string to it and pulling the string through in its place. You never know when you might need to pull another wire back through that spot, and sometimes it isn't as easy as it looks. Duct tape the ends inside the hull when you are done, again, you never know.

It isn't rocket science. In fact it's pretty easy - helped my neighbor rewire his 18 cc with all the trimmings (lights, stereo, livewell, t-top, sensors, etc) in a weekend no problem.

Your schematic is a good idea but we just sketched the boat in a few "zones" and labeled what wires needed to go where. That was mostly useful for ordering purposes so we would buy what we needed up front, and then we checked off each wire as we ran it. A "zone" was transom-to-console, console-to-t-top, console-to-bow, etc. We used duplex wire where it made sense and there was room for it.
Flot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 09:08 AM
  #4    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 11,778
Default Re: Rewire boat?

I rewired my boat and it was not difficult at all. A little tedious perhaps but there is no rocket science required. The best part about doing your boat (which probably needs it given its age) is that you will know the circuitry very intimately. It will make future trouble shooting much easier.

Here is a link to the place where I got most of parts required (wire, terminals, heat shrink, etc).

http://www.bestboatwire.com/

Be prepared for some varying opinions as to how to connect terminals. Some will tell you that soldered connections are a no-no but that is not so. With a soldered connection you have to take care to make sure there is no movement between the wire and the terminal (could fatigue the soldered joint) but I feel it makes for a better electrical connection. I have had more problems with bad electrical connections than I have with soldered joints failing (in fact have never had one fail). So, it is a trade-off. You do what you have to do to make the best electrical connection with the understanding that a small amount of risk comes with it.

After the terminal is crimped to the wire I apply just a slight amount of solder to connect the end of the wire to the terminal. The key word here is slight. You don't want the solder to wick down the wire which will cause the wire to be brittle beyond the end of the terminal. Then, cover the crimped and soldered joint with adhesive lined heat shrink tubing. I like to use the clear tubing because I can easily see when it has wrapped itself securely around the terminal.

Connect the terminal to its connection point and then make sure the wire is secured in place so that it does not move. It is the movement of the wire relative to the terminal that causes it to break.
__________________
And now among the fading embers
These in the main are my regrets
When I am right no one remembers
When I am wrong no one forgets
jethro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 09:09 AM
  #5    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 11,778
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Dog gone it Adam you beat me to the keyboard. I was typing while you were posting.
__________________
And now among the fading embers
These in the main are my regrets
When I am right no one remembers
When I am wrong no one forgets
jethro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 09:21 AM
  #6    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 7,326
Default Re: Rewire boat?

You have the option of solder/ shrink and there are Pro's/ Con's to it.

I use Crimp/Shrink connector's.

Here are some places that will save you money. Do NOT buy your stuff from a local Marine Box store, unless you want to pay 3 time's as much for the same stuff.

http://bestboatwire.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=23
http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%...ical%20Supply/
http://www.waytekwire.com/
__________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Just 'cause it's new, doesn't mean it's worth a Damn."
warthog5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 09:24 AM
  #7    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 7,326
Default Re: Rewire boat?

We are all typing at the same time.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Just 'cause it's new, doesn't mean it's worth a Damn."
warthog5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 09:38 AM
  #8    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 446
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Great info, Adam and Jethro. Simply fabulous'o! Battery question & Perko switch questions remain.

I am running 2 brand new Interstate "CranKing" marine batteries. How are the batteries wired to the
distribution blocks & what is the layout for the return charging from the alternator in the system & location of isolator? Also, how is the Perko switch wired (batt 1, batt 2, both, & off positions) relative to the rest of the schematic. The perko seems very straightforward - assuming positive from each battery (#1 to #1 position, #2 to #2 position on switch) & assuming power lead from motor going to common on Perko and all - going back to primary distro bar?

Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks again so much!
Andy

saintroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 12:41 PM
  #9    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 7,326
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Junk the Perko switch you have.

warthog5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 12:44 PM
  #10    
tg
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Naples/Chicago
Posts: 2,512
Default Re: Rewire boat?

It looks like an OMC product on your transom. These have an additional charging circuit for a house battery and don't like isolators/combiners. You might consider using one battery to crank and one for house. BEP Marine has a good diagram for a battery distribution system using a secondary charging wire.
tg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 03:18 PM
  #11    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 446
Default Re: Rewire boat?

thanks, warthog (bobby) and tg --- tg, can you tell more about this diagram from BEP and where I can locate it?

saintroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 03:24 PM
  #12    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 446
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Quote:
warthog5 - 12/22/2006 11:41 AM

Junk the Perko switch you have.

Bobby, what is the part #s for theON/OFF SW and ON/OFF combine sw? Do you have a component diagram w/spec #s?
I am assuming basic SPST, but design spec # and/or parts list would be most helpful. The design is impressive
especially with the ACR and the foolproof layout (minus the annoying switching Perko switch, which I find a little
prone to problems and user error) How does tg response about the unique OMC charging system play into this
schematic?

Thanks
Andy
saintroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 03:42 PM
  #13    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 7,326
Default Re: Rewire boat?

All 3 switch's are the same.
http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?P...58&l1=7458&l2=

With the spare charging wire it would be different. I didn't realize that OMC's had the spare charge wire. I throught that was the bigger Yamaha's only.

The ACR would not be needed.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Just 'cause it's new, doesn't mean it's worth a Damn."
warthog5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 05:47 PM
  #14    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 11,778
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Quote:
tg - 12/22/2006 12:44 PM

It looks like an OMC product on your transom. These have an additional charging circuit for a house battery and don't like isolators/combiners. You might consider using one battery to crank and one for house. BEP Marine has a good diagram for a battery distribution system using a secondary charging wire.
What do you mean when you say "don't like isolators/combiners"? How does the system even know one is installed, if it is?

If the additional charging circuit of an OMC is anything like the Merc system there is a down side to using it. Let's say the normal combined charging system has an output rating of 40 amps. When you use the alternate charging leads you only have 20 amps available to two circuits instead of all 40 to one circuit. If you split the charging circuits and have a low house battery it is going to take forever to charge it on a 20 amp circuit.

If you use the normal 40 amp circuit with a combiner you will have the full 40 amps available to charge your house battery. After you have started the motor the engine battery quickly reaches its full charge (since you only used a small amount of current to start the motor and it was fully charged to begin with). Once the combiner has paralleled both batteries most all of the 40 amps of current will be available to recharge the house battery.

I am a strong believer in using the West Marine battery setup system whereby three separate switches are used. One for the engine battery, one for the house battery and one to use the house battery to start the engine if it is ever needed, and a combiner to parallel and charge both batteries any time the generator has an output.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...terysystem.htm

Turn on two switches when you begin to do your boating activites and turn the same two off when you are done. That is it. Nothing to think about.
jethro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 05:58 PM
  #15    
tg
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Naples/Chicago
Posts: 2,512
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Quote:

What do you mean when you say "don't like isolators/combiners"? How does the system even know one is installed, if it is?
It was a "cute" way of saying the engine manual specifies that thou shalt not use any combiners/isolators. My BEP system is similar in simplicity, though without a combiner. I have two group 31 for house...haven't come close to depleting them yet.
tg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 06:03 PM
  #16    
tg
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Naples/Chicago
Posts: 2,512
Default Re: Rewire boat?

twin

http://www.bepmarine.com/PDF/718_WIRING.pdf

single

http://www.bepmarine.com/PDF/715H_WIRING.pdf
tg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2006, 10:58 PM
  #17    
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brandon, Florida
Posts: 2,113
Default Re: Rewire boat?

I buy wire and connectors, including the shrink connectors, at Home Depot. 1/3 the price of BW or WM. I don't know how it compares to online, but it is 15 minutes from my house.
__________________
greyg8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 01:07 PM
  #18    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,245
Default Re: Rewire boat?

You might also want to order appropriate ABYC guide.

I would caution against using material that is not specifically designed and labeled for marine use. Anyway you put it, wiring gets more expensive than you think it should be, can be challenging to get access to what you need to, (ie securing bundles) and takes longer than you think it should. So use the right materials so you do it once correctly.

chrisjb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 01:48 PM
  #19    
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pensacola, Fl.
Posts: 7,326
Default Re: Rewire boat?

I have heard some of the Home Depot's in S. Fla had the right stuff. I haven't seen it here.
__________________
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Just 'cause it's new, doesn't mean it's worth a Damn."
warthog5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2006, 08:23 PM
  #20    
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 27
Default Re: Rewire boat?

Adam has pretty much got it covered. Key item is TINNED stranded wire. Saltwater will turn bare copper strand to dust.

Also, good grade crimper tool--Ancor blue handle double crimp is a good value. It also has a handy strain relief feature for
your connections when used with the appropiate connector.

And Ancor connectors. Not the cheapest, but remember, you're only doing one boat & it's YOURS. (In extreme areas you have
a variety of choices such as integral adhesive features--yeah get a heat gun.)

adios
adios1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rewire trollme The Boating Forum 11 06-12-2007 04:17 PM
Submerged Boat - Rewire? Jeauxbro The Boating Forum 14 07-17-2006 09:44 AM
rewire the boat FINALLEY -1 Florida & Georgia 2 01-26-2006 11:35 AM
Cost to rewire a boat BigShrimpin The Boating Forum 2 11-04-2005 04:51 AM
Knowledgeable Guy to Rewire boat. CrookedHook Marine Electronics Forum 3 07-23-2003 06:56 AM

 



©2009 TheHullTruth.com

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0