scuba divers

[Rebel Yell]

Hello,I am a scuba diver and would like to tell what happened to me a couple of months ago.When I dive this one site,it is easier for me to walk in from shore,the dive being from 6 feet to 35 feet,but mostly in the 12 foot range.I have a diver down flag I tow behind me to claim my stake of the water,and most people honor it.However some folks don't know what it means,and some don't care.This day I had the place to myself and started my dive.At 12 feet I found a small anchor.I t was not hung up,so I started pulling it in,it pulled back,I went up the anchor line,scaring the living crap out of the woman in the boat,and irritating the man.I told him he was susposed to stay 100 feet from my flag.He mumbled and I went back down.He didn't leave so I went back up and offered to cut his anchor line if he didn't leave.I stayed up to see and because I had become tangled in 20 lb test monofilament and it popped off 1 of my fins.I had to cut myself loose and swim in with 1 fin.Folks if you see a diver flag or an alpha flag,there is somebody down there and they can die if you drop an anchor on them or hit them with a prop.Thank you.

[prowlersfish]

you started your dive and found the anchor ? sounds like the boat was there first , so whats your beef ?

[Prop Blast]

What he's saying is that when he started his dive there was no boat. The boat arrived after he started his dive and dropped anchor anyways.

The laws regarding safety zones when a dive flag is present vary from state to state. Here in Florida it is a real challenge on some of the better known artificial reefs and wrecks. The problems work both ways -- I've had boats show up on sites I'm already fishing, drop anchor and run up a dive flag. Not sure what the penalites are here, but I play it safe and usually just leave.... and no, I don't drop a bunch of chum in the water.

I'm a diver as well, so the frustration runs both ways. I've been in the water and have Drone Spoons come trolling through an area.

PB

[Eyeball]

I don’t think you have a clue how much trouble you will cause by cutting someone’s anchor line. And if you think North Korea’s launching of a bunch of dud fireworks into the Sea of Japan is an “act of provocation”; just surface and threaten to cut my anchor line. I’ll show you how to respond to an “act if provocation”.

I’ve been diving 30+ years. I’ve seen big changes to diving in that time, one being the attitude of divers in general. Dude, it ain’t your ocean! And fwiw, if your diver down flag was smaller than 1-meter sq it may not have qualified as a proper display anyways, depends on where you were. No way to know if you gave proper indication a diver was in the water.

Otherwise, welcome to the forum! I enjoyed reading about your experience. Hopefully you will get past the whole Navy SEAL thing and enjoy your dives more.

[BlueMarlin]

I agree with eyeball. Being a diver myself and a fisherman, I find your threat of cutting his anchor line out of line and provoking.

[HullSlap]

For every stupid boater's reaction to a diver down flag there is an equally stupid diver doing something they shouldn't. It's always so much fun to see a couple of diver down flags right in the middle of the extremely narrow boat channel heading in and out of the campsite marina at Bahia Honda State Park. I'm always amazed at the stupid things people do on the water. Every now and then I'm probably the idiot myself.

Lighten up and try to enjoy your dives without making threats. No need to create another dangerous situation by temporarily adding a 2nd idiot.

[Maxc]

Rebel yell, Any person operating a vessel in open water other than a river, inlet, or navigation channell must maintain a minimum distance of 100 yards not feet from the divers flag. In a river, channel etc the distance is 100 feet.

A vessel may approach within the 100 yards or 100 feet but must proceed no faster than to maintain headway.
A divers flag does not claim your portion of the reef, ship or whatever you are on. Most boaters would respect the fact that you are there first and therefore would go else where, but then again there are all types. If you are fishing a spot and a dive boat decides to move in, you are not required to move, but you may tell the so called dive boat captain that he or she is a dick- head, Wiley can I say dick- head?

[RI Builder]

HullSlap - 7/6/2006 2:48 AM

For every stupid boater's reaction to a diver down flag there is an equally stupid diver doing something they shouldn't. It's always so much fun to see a couple of diver down flags right in the middle of the extremely narrow boat channel heading in and out of the campsite marina at Bahia Honda State Park. I'm always amazed at the stupid things people do on the water. Every now and then I'm probably the idiot myself.

Lighten up and try to enjoy your dives without making threats. No need to create another dangerous situation by temporarily adding a 2nd idiot.

Well written.

It is a huge ocean, plenty of room for both divers and fisherman. If someone is fishing your dive spot when you arrive - find another spot. If someone is diving your fishing spot when you arrive - find another spot.

[Los Mentirosos]

I fish and dive so I can see everyones side of this. I will tell you that I don't dive wrecks anymore. It seems that a diver down flag is a target to some. I dive clos to the rig legs, no way you can get run over there. I have been fishing and had divers come up and drop in next to me at times. They rarely put out a flag so I stay, sometimes I even join them in the water.

[Kamper]

For a swimmer, the flag does not have to be a meter. For a person using one of these towable flags I'd suggest staying withing a couple hundred feet of some feature that requires a boat to slow down. At higher speeds even the best intentionned operator may miss it. Especially if there's any kind of chop.

I only snorkel so "finding" an anchor is a less likey surprise for me as it might be for a SCUBA user. If you encounterred it already down then follow it up and have a chat with the skipper so you both are aware of each other and you know not to stay close if they are fishing. A smart person will know to -lower- an anchor when there might be someone in the water. If one were to come whizzing down at me I might be tempted to wrap the line around a rock but would probably just move on.

If a pleasant discussion does not seem to be in the cards it wont be worth the aggravation of pursuing it. Make a note of the hull number and report the incident to the local authorities. They wont do anything about it but if they keep records then this person will be on file if there is a more serious incident in their future.

Good luck!

[javven]

I'm also a certified diver. Mono's a big PITA and frankly I'd have been thoroughly hacked off caught in the line.

I'd be a little miffed about the anchor thing but once it's there it's just another static obstacle, IMO. I'm not defending the boater but frankly it's not tough to avoid an anchor. Too, any boat sound draws my eyes skyward. Depending on visibility you may or may not see someone - I guess it's the chance you unfortunately take. Sort of like the drunk driver that's -always- (statistically) on the road. As long as you don't get hit there's nothing you can do.

I can tell you I'd have felt free to use his anchor line as a reference or if he was well - hooked possibly a place I'd hold -lightly- onto while making my safety stop. I'd then do a lateral move over closer to my boat before surfacing.

Things that'd make me cut someone's anchor line? Probably nothing. Anything that hacked me off that much would have me calling the cops / cg / fish n game - whoever. Let -them- deal with @$$-hats like that. It's what they get paid for.

[grin]

I'll never figure out why a diver wants to drag a flag thinking everyone will avoid him(I guess becasue it's the law). I fly the flag off my boat. Sometimes I drag a bouy if the people on my boat are not capable of following me in current or rough seas. But if I can at all get away with it, I am not dragging anything floating above me. Just like this entire thread has concluded, there are way to many idiots out there who either don't know what a dive flag is, or don't care or they think there must be fish where a diver is so they are going there. Almost all my buddies insist on pulling those little dive bouys and they always get pissed when boats come close. How many times I've seen a boat cruising and they see my buddies little flag or bouy and they stop or turn to go see what it is. And when your down there and you hear engines, you always have to wonder if your flag is about to get run over and you will get sucked into their props. I find it so much nicer attached to nothing. In this threads case the water is so shallow you could surface every 10 minutes and look around and see where the boats are and avoid them. Getting run over is no big deal to me. It happens all the time. I can hear them and I would be an idiot to surface with engines getting louder and louder. Wait a minute, and when you hear no motors, surface then. If that guy did anchor close to your flag he is an idiot, but like others have stated, this is normal operation on the sea and you need to realize it is normal operation and deal with it. That happens a million times a day. I bet there has not been one ticket written in the last 5 years so it's up to you to just survive and deal with it. It may be the law to drag a flag, but you might consider dragging a flag out and tiing it to a rock or something. Personally I would have the flag in case you get terrorized by the law, but I wouldn't use it until they make me. While your at it you could wrap that idiots anchor around some rocks so he'll never get it up and have to cut it off himself if you really were that pissed he anchored on you.

[lobsta1]

I've only been diving since 1979. I quit dragging the flag about 1980 after about the 50th time having to backtrack because I had gone under a lobster trawl & my flag was hung up on the other side of the trawl. I'm just a touch older & more cautious now as everyone else has dropped out of diving & I do 95% of my dives solo. So, I only dive in sheltered areas as the Admiral is petrified of the water & is sitting up above by herself. Fly the flag on the boat. I go down my anchor line & 95% of the time I come back up the same line. I NEVER surface during a dive. There are way to many sail boat keels around here. Most of them seem to think a dive flag is a turning marker. I tell the sailors that I can hear a motor boat, but I can't hear a keel! They then tell me "Don't dive".
Al

[Flot]

I don't dive near people fishing and don't fish near people diving. I've only had a boat end up on top of me once, and it was my fault, didn't have my flag with me. I heard the guy shifting F->N->R (3 engines no less) and got the hell outta there.

My dive flag story - was off boca inlet 2 weekends ago, and we're heading back to Ft. Laud at 35 mph, and somebody yells "DIVER!" - I look and there's a guy (with a flag) bobbing in the water, nobody around for 500 feet, no boat obviously attached. Idle up, he says he's OK, and we keep going. Another 500 feet, another diver. Some dive boat had sprinkled 6 (?) groups of divers all over the place, almost directly off of the inlet. WTF?

[jyasaki]

Rebel Yell - 7/5/2006 9:47 PM
I have a diver down flag I tow behind me to claim my stake of the water,and most people honor it.However some folks don't know what it means,and some don't care.This day I had the place to myself and started my dive.At 12 feet I found a small anchor.I t was not hung up,so I started pulling it in,it pulled back,I went up the anchor line,scaring the living crap out of the woman in the boat,and irritating the man.I told him he was susposed to stay 100 feet from my flag.He mumbled and I went back down.He didn't leave so I went back up and offered to cut his anchor line if he didn't leave.I stayed up to see and because I had become tangled in 20 lb test monofilament and it popped off 1 of my fins.I had to cut myself loose and swim in with 1 fin.Folks if you see a diver flag or an alpha flag,there is somebody down there and they can die if you drop an anchor on them or hit them with a prop.Thank you.

Hmmm. Started the dive in 6 feet, and found the anchor at 12? What was that, maybe a minute and a half? Then you pulled the anchor, despite the fact that it had a rode and was not abandoned? Then you demanded that the boater leave? Threatened to endanger the boat by cutting him loose?

You're not making big points for us divers.

Would have been a lot easier to continue the dive and use a bit of caution until you were clear of his fishing zone. You also could have simply explained the situation to him. People are a little more likely to listen to a reasonable discussion rather than being yelled at. Yeah, maybe he was wrong. So were you.

Rules regarding dive flags vary from state to state. Since you don't say where you were, it's kind of tough to state emphatically who made the first transgression (in CA, for instance, a diver does not need to fly a dive flag, and a boat does not, by law, need to do anything about a dive flag other than use caution.)

In any case, a dive flag does does *not* give you exclusive rights to the area; it is a warning that divers are down and is supposed to keep operating boats from endangering them. In your case, the boat was not further endangering you (after dropping the hook, that is), and I doubt he had a legal reason to move from the spot.

Yes, it would be nice if we could guarantee that divers and boaters remained separate, but as long as we dive on spots where people fish, or use boats to get to dive sites, we're going to have to co-exist.

jky

[swampdogg]

I realize I am resurrecting an old thread...but I just found this forum. Ever since I started diving a lot, I have been spending my internet forum time at a few scuba forums...

This is a subject that I have written about, the relationship between boaters, fishermen and divers. It is my observation that divers are a small subset of the boating population, and boaters are a small sub set of the diving population. Obviously, on this board, most divers will also be boaters. It really takes someone who does both to understand the issue on both sides. All of the things mentioned on this thread have happened to me, both while diving and boating. I was a boatsman first, and until I started diving, didn't have a clue.

I think it is the responsiblity of the divers (who happen to be boaters) to insure their own safety, and not rely on others understanding or non-understanding of the ettiquette and rules.

Honestly, I know this is a generalization, but I am not real fond of the personality type of divers who are not boaters.

Ken
www.lulu.com/krosemond

I think you went to far threating to cut his anchor. You should have instead looked in your "save a dive" kit, pulled out your wrench, removed his plug, thereby, politely inviting him to join you on your dive. Obviously kidding. Look, be smart enough to compensate for stupid people and just move on and enjoy life. Glad you dive was a safe one.