*THE HULL TRUTH is the world's largest FREE network for the discussion of Boating & Fishing. Whether you're researching a new boat, or are a seasoned Captain, you'll find The Hull Truth Boating & Fishing Message Forum contains a wealth of information from Boaters and Sportfishermen around the world.
Welcome to the updated THT!
If you are having trouble signing in, please email feedback@thehulltruth.com with your username and we will help you. We thank you for your patience as we help you access the new site!
Random Quote: I got a boat for my wife. What a great trade!
Alright here we go, I guess I should type this on a word document so I can just cut and paste it when needed.
The numbers cited here are accurate and yes even though they say we can catch more poundage, it looks like we are going to have fewer days IF ANY AT ALL.
Remember that Florida's WLF department is due to meet the week of the 17th. If Florida decides to open their state waters year round like they were in the past, NMFS is claiming that there could be NO RED SNAPPE SEASON in the EEZ (Federal waters) of the Gulf of Mexico.
I was part of the group that asked Louisiana WLF to take a stand and leave the the Lousiiana State waters open and not follow the feds. However when this was done we took into consideration that there would be very little to no effect on the fishery because Louisiana on has a 3 mile limit and there are few if any RS caught in state waters.
Aside from the overage that they are claiming from last year the NMFS is predicting that the size of the fish this year is going to increase by 15%, thus we will reach our poundage limit faster with fewer fish.
I am checked on a regular basis as a charter boat. The biologist seem to target us and wait on us at the dock, they have a quota and I think that they have developed a dependancy on the charter boat, knowing that they can fill their sample quota faster. I do see a problem with that in that I am charging money to bring people to catch fish and (without sounding like I am buttering my own back side) I see a tendancy that we go the extra mile to catch a larger fish. Almost every snapper I brought to the dock last year was 22 inches or larger, that was our self imposed regulation. So I believe that we skew the sample to a large degree. I do not know if I am going to continue to let them sample 'my customers fish'
At the Mobile Council meeting I had a personal conversation with Roy Crabtree. First you have to realize that Crabtree has a boss. He has to be looking toward retirement and he wants to protect his job. He is directed by NOAA and ultimately the President of the US to promote a policy and he is going to promote that policy. I think that if you really want to affect change, you have to start with the legislator and remember this a few years from now when it comes time to think about who you vote for president.
Crabtree told me that, UNDER THE CURRENT MANAGEMENT PLAN, we would never again see a 6 month snapper season. He doubted that we would ever see a 4 month season. Paraphrasing his reasoning he predicted that as the stock gets healthier, the fish will get larger and easier to catch. This will bring more people to the waters edge to catch fish that are easier to catch and bigger, which in turn means that we will always go over our limit. ( a product of the sampling system), thus we will always be in the payback mode.
They tell us that they want better data yet the President seems to have cut the budget for the charter boat log book program this year.
Another problem (then I will get off of my soapbox) is the amount of time that it takes to do anything in the federal system. The sector seperation idea is gaining momentum with the council but even if it goes through, it will take at least 2 years to make the change.
We have to get more people involved and I truely believe that we must attack the MSA and get the law changed or we will continue to have this arguement until there is nothing more to argue about.
Who the f#@k is Roy Crabtree The stock has not recovered yet?????
What planet has this D%^k head been on??? Some body needs to take this idiot offshore and let him see just how low the stocks are...at about 175' The final #'s are just coming in from last year...They must be counting with matchsticks or something..IMO fillet and release whenever you can!!!
SCHUMER URGES COMMERCE SECRETARY TO SCRAP MRFSS CALLS FOR “MORATORIUM ON FLAWED SURVEY DATA”
February 16, 2010 - U.S. Senator Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) called on U.S. Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke, NOAA Administrator Jane Lubchenco, and NMFS Administrator Patricia Kurkul to issue an immediate moratorium on the flawed survey data used to implement recreational fishing quotas for the East Coast. In a letter addressed to Kurkul, Sen. Schumer cited the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS) as being “fatally flawed” and reminded NOAA of their responsibility through the federal Magnuson Stevens Act (MSA) to implement changes to the methodology used to gauge the level of recreational landings over the course of a season.
“We need better science and more data-based flexibility in our fishing management regulations,” said Schumer. "Keeping our fishing stocks healthy is absolutely critical, and to accomplish this we can’t base decisions on outdated science and poor methods. The current system not only falls short of achieving this goal, but it could take the Long Island fishing community down with it in 2010,” Schumer said adding that the fishing community “needs fairness and relief from flawed survey data now.”
MRFSS uses a combination of dockside interviews and evening telephone surveys to collect recreational harvest information. In 2005, Congress convened a special hearing to look the MRFSS methodology, which in turn led to an in-depth analysis by the National Research Council (NRC) concluding that “both the telephone and access components of the current approach have serious flaws in design or implementation and use inadequate analysis methods that need to be addressed immediately.” Pat Sullivan, the NRC committee chair and a Cornell professor, referred to MRFSS specifically as “fatally flawed.” The findings led to an MSA mandate that NMFS work on a new survey methodology which was supposed to be online and operational by the start of 2009. Federal delays however have pushed back the start date for MRIP until this year, which means MRFSS data is still regarded as “best available science” for estimating the annual recreational harvest.
Last week, Sen. Schumer asked Kurkul to issue an across-the-board moratorium on this flawed survey data in 2010 so that black sea bass and other species like fluke and porgies are not unfairly shutdown by bad science. “Acknowledging the problems with MRFSS, a new system mandated by the Magnuson-Stevens Act will be coming online in the coming years,” the senator wrote, adding “it would be patently unfair to punish anglers by reducing their quota due to erroneous landings estimates produced with a broken system. I request that NMFS dismiss future recreational overages predicted by MRFSS until the new system is fully implemented and calibrated by NOAA.”
Last fall, the Recreational Fishing Alliance posted a seven-page paper www.joinrfa.org/Press/RFA_MRFSS.pdf (Fatally Flawed Science – Killing America’s Number One Outdoor Pastime) pointing out many specific problems with MRFSS and outlining NRC’s view that experiential, narrative or local information from the fishing industry, currently considered purely “anecdotal” in nature by NMFS, should actually be considered in harvest methodology. “When no other information is available, anecdotal information may constitute the best information available,” the NRC reported in its executive summary, adding “In addition, anecdotal information may be used to help validate other sources of information and identify topics for research.”
Schumer’s letter on behalf of anglers in the New York marine district can be greatly supported in many coastal states and is backed by a recent study conducted by the Connecticut Marine Fisheries Division (Correction for Systematic Bias in Recreational Catch, Harvest and Trip Estimates from the MRFSS since the year 2000) which noted a growing discrepancy between the estimated number of saltwater anglers according to MRFSS and the estimates of saltwater anglers from the US Fish and Wildlife Surveys (USFWS) and saltwater licenses sales from several Atlantic coast states. Authored by fisheries assessment expert Dr. Victor Crecco, the report shows that MRFSS’ 2008 saltwater angler estimates were often “three to four times higher than both the 2006 USFWS estimates and the 2008 adjusted saltwater license sales,” findings which Dr. Crecco said “strongly suggest that the MRFSS has severely overestimated the number of saltwater anglers and fishing trips particularly in recent years, and by extension, has severely inflated the true recreational catch and harvest of all finfish species.”
Schumer is urging the U.S. Department of Commerce and the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) to manage quotas based on sound data, and has instructed federal fisheries managers to dismiss any future overages estimated by MRFSS in order to restore some stability to coastal fishing communities. “MRFSS has proven to be extremely dangerous on a year to year basis – especially with regard to last year’s surprising black sea bass shutdown - and this raises concerns about fully utilizing the meager summer flounder liberalization New York is entitled to in 2010,” Sen. Schumer added.
“Fishing is a Long Island tradition that has been passed down for generations and without this relief, the NMFS could potentially stick New York with another year of draconian cuts,” Schumer said. “The fishing community has made many sacrifices and stocks are improving so restricting families and others from fishing for them, based on bad data, in 2010 is just plain wrong.”
This past Saturday, Sen. Schumer visited the Freeport Recreation Center on Long Island and met with several hundred recreational fishermen at the New York Sportfishing Federation’s annual fishing expo. “Fishing is one of our best industries in New York and you’ve been neglected for too long,” Schumer told the crowd of anglers and business owners, stressing the need to fix the Magnuson Stevens Act. Schumer is lead sponsor of Senate Bill 1255, the Flexibility in Rebuilding American Fisheries Act and urged show patrons to join him in a rally on the Capitol on February 24th while calling on “bureaucrats” to immediately fix the data collection system. “We’ve got to change the rules here,” Schumer said to a loud applause
Location: Hueytown, Al, hopefully Foley Al someday,,
Posts: 1,027
OK, I kept 5 snapper last year. All 5 were less than 20" so that would be in the 3 lb range. Total of 15 pounds. Divide that by 1,500,000 pounds, that comes to 100,000 fisherman catching 5 snapper all year. That is possible,,,,,,
__________________ Sea Pro SV1900 Yamaha 115HP 2 Stroke Death & life are set before us,,Choose Life !!
OK, I kept 5 snapper last year. All 5 were less than 20" so that would be in the 3 lb range. Total of 15 pounds. Divide that by 1,500,000 pounds, that comes to 100,000 fisherman catching 5 snapper all year. That is possible,,,,,,
Still not gonna be accurate. And even if it is, the fish keep growing and eventually the quota will be filled in a week or less. I think they used an 8 lb average this year, next year the average will increase, which will make you guys go over next year. Every year you will be able to catch less and less fish and thats what they want. By the way 1,500,000 lbs is what the gulf went over on their quota, that wasn't total caught. Need to be in DC the 24th, its never gonna stop unless we fight it.
Location: Hueytown, Al, hopefully Foley Al someday,,
Posts: 1,027
"By the way 1,500,000 lbs is what the gulf went over on their quota, that wasn't total caught"
OK, that makes my # make more (or less) sense. I wonder if they will start the same on bass fishing on freshwater lakes. So they use a 8 pound average ? Wow, a 8 pounder is 20"+ long, A near-shore fisherman like me & a LOT of others, do not see many of those.
__________________ Sea Pro SV1900 Yamaha 115HP 2 Stroke Death & life are set before us,,Choose Life !!
"By the way 1,500,000 lbs is what the gulf went over on their quota, that wasn't total caught"
OK, that makes my # make more (or less) sense. I wonder if they will start the same on bass fishing on freshwater lakes. So they use a 8 pound average ? Wow, a 8 pounder is 20"+ long, A near-shore fisherman like me & a LOT of others, do not see many of those.
They're gonna do the same thing to inland lakes if they're allowed. Your 3lbers are counted as 8lbers in the survey.
Not scientific, but a lifetime of saltwater fishing-what percentage of Louisiana saltwater licensees ever fish offshore(meaning deepwater)? Maybe 5-10%-I doubt it-most fish trout, red fish, drum, flounder, etc.-yet these licenses go into the statistics to calculate the catches of reef fish off the La. coast!! This probably could apply to all the gulf coast states.
To add to what we already know my nieghbor went out on Sat. and hit some of the close in rigs around Dauphin island and was throwing 20 #'s back. He biggest was 27 pounds caught in less than 60 ft of water. He siad the biggest problem was the getting the bait to the bigger snapper. He said the little one 5-6 #'s were taking the bait around 20 ft.
The stock has not recovered yet?????
Some body needs to take this idiot offshore and let him see just how low the stocks are...at about 175' 
The final #'s are just coming in from last year...They must be counting with matchsticks or something..IMO fillet and release whenever you can!!!
