SimpleMan

I'll give you Red's and maybe Red Snapper. Off Panama City, Fl. in the late 70's/80's I remember being able to catch grouper better than now and you could have sunk your boat with kings if desired! Not so anymore.

I totally agree. Technology has made it so almost anyone can get on fish. Takes a real man with some skill to use loran.

Bull butter. This is not even close to the "real problem". I know alot of people who fish heavy. No one I know throws fish away baring a freezer mishap. Most folks I know provide fish to non-fishing family members/friends or co-workers. Fishermen wasting fish is the real problem with our fish stocks! Come on man!
Most of the wasting of fish I know of is a direct result of the bull$#!t regulations (I still say give us Rec anglers an I.F.Q. like the commercial guys).

Please read the article at this link.
http://www.dcnr.state.al.us/fishing/...s/reefhist.cfm

Great success story started, maintained and fought for by the charter boat industry/recreational fishermen.

Took an expanse of mud and sand and turned it in to some of the best offshore fishing in the country. If this is not giving back, I challenge you to inform me what is. Florida and Mississippi have similar programs albeit not as old or large as Alabama's.

__________________
"Shakin the bush here Boss!"

2008 Sea Pro SV2400CC
2008 Mercury Verado 225
Cage full of crickets and a cane pole

SimpleMan

Hardhead cats

__________________
"Shakin the bush here Boss!"

2008 Sea Pro SV2400CC
2008 Mercury Verado 225
Cage full of crickets and a cane pole

reeljustice

I think we will see significant changes to the tripletail, cobia, tuna, and grouper fisheries over the next few years. Closures seem to be the trend unfortunately and i don't think there is much we can do about it

Sea Daddy

And a whole hell of alot less people on the water back then so it was definitely not "fished out."

And catching that many is still being done, but not being kept by recreational fisherman.....so whats your point?

I remeber those days well, running with nothing more than compass before Loran. I agree the GPS has really more than quadrupled the number of anglers on the water and I do not disagree with some regulation on fisheries by the individual states in their waters and federal in fed waters simply because the numbers of people out on the water this day in time. BUT we have to put the right people in those positions in our offices that make the decisions on our fisheries and waters that share our common caus, not try to delete our caus. There's to many people guilty of not doing the research on candidates running for offices and getting out voting fishing, hunting and 2nd admen advocates to our offices.

Its none of anybodys business if a person does not eat all the food in their freezer, including fish. Sounds like your mind is on the side of Big Govt and the regulation and control of the citizens of this country.

There are more anglers and pro fishing organizations that "give back", take care of, respect, love, and would rather oversee the fisheries and waters than any left wing group or Govt control panel. When its left up to the govt to regulate, oversee, and control anything of this nature, ESPECIALLY with what has been elected of late, it will go down the shitter at a fast rate, and in this case, the American angler. It will be hunting next, then the attempt on firearms if the conservatives of America do not vote these left-wing, tree hugging, progressive, socialist liberal agenda minded folks from their ranks.

__________________
"Fast is fine. Accuracy is final. You need to learn to shoot slow, real fast."---Wyatt Earp

Paul Barnard

Redfish have recovered and are doing well, but that has more to do with state management than federal I suspect. No matter the source of the success, it translates into nothing for me as an angler in federal waters. I don't catch many in federal waters and when i do I almost always have to perform surgery as they have expurgated their float bladders. I can't keep any. Gags? I catch more now than I used to, but still have a hard time catching a legal one. Kings seem about the same as they have always been. Striped bass? I know nothing about them. Red Snapper? My observation is that their numbers are on par with what they have been over the past 20 years, perhaps a little better in terms of overall size. NOAA by its own admission is not succeeding as is evidenced by ever tightening regulations.

__________________
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1999 Custom Craft 14/Mercury 25 2S
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inletsurf

Not really, its pretty easy.

big money

Closures seem to be the trend unfortunately and i don't think there is much we can do about it

Terrible attitude Reeljustice...back in the day they never thought they would get gill nets out of Louisiana waters either, but it happened and today we catch more redfish and trout! We can make a difference, but everyone has to work together.

SimpleMan

Inletsurf, I was being cute. No sexism or skill set was seriously implied.
I do still remember running to numbers, throwing a bouy out and fast idling (can't slow down too much or the loran goes flakey) around for about 15 minutes before I mark the spot, then throwing another bouy out to mark the spot. I also recall fish getting in the marker lines fairly regularly too. I obviously was not a real man.
We do have it easy now that we can agree on?

__________________
"Shakin the bush here Boss!"

2008 Sea Pro SV2400CC
2008 Mercury Verado 225
Cage full of crickets and a cane pole

Team Seadation

Fellas,

Look we all know that the NMFS is gonna do what they want to no matter what they hear from any group or individual and that is quite evident in such cases as the Red Snapper issue. This is just one more regulation that they are cramming down our throats and chances are we will just have to live with it because our state level politicians dont have the nuts to do what they were put into office by the voters to do and that is to represent us and our best interest. We all know that the majority of politicians are corrupt and therefore once again, money talks and BS walks! So dont expect much if anything at all from our elected officials when it comes to taking care of us! Hell from what I hear, the first time youre caught by the feds with an illegal fish you only get a warning as long as its less than 20 fish in your possession, so I'll just take my chances and keep what I want until some much needed political representation with a set of NUTS comes along and does what they were elected to do...

__________________
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"No matter how hot she is,...she's a pain in the A$$ to someone somewhere"!!!

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trentnaq

Look Up the sites below… Its not about conservation, its about left wing government control. All the tree huggers and Left wing radicals have their hands all over this treaty they want to put into effect.
If we cant fish aj what’s next tuna, snapper, or maybe cobia? Can anyone remember in the 80’s where Japanese. Tuna boats were fishing the gulf coast in Intl. waters and the govt couldn’t do anything about it, the fishermen started shooting at them with there deer rifles? This year I have seen boats from some South American countries tuna fishing our waters.
Yea the people who live here won’t be able to catch the fish. As far as snapper anyone fish the rigs in Louisiana? Those oil rigs have built more artificial reef anywhere in the world it has more reef than the Great Barrier Reef. The snapper and rest of the reef fish are growing faster that the fisherman can catch them. You wont hear that from the govt.
Do you research on what they are trying to do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2360512/posts


http://www.whitehouse.gov/administra...atives/oceans/

trentnaq

Obama Administration task force -- intenational laws for nation's shorelines, waterways
theoutdoorwire.com ^ | 10/5/09 | news release

Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:04:01 PM by girlangler

Obama Administration task force closing in on deadline for 'health care' for nation's shorelines, waterways

IRVINE, Calif. USA - October 5, 2009 - A recently published administration document outlines a structure that could result in closures of sport fishing in salt and freshwater areas across America.

The White House created an Interagency Oceans Policy Task Force in June and gave them only 90 days to develop a comprehensive federal policy for all U.S. coastal, ocean and Great Lakes waters. Under the guise of 'protecting' these areas, the current second phase of the Task Force direction is to develop zoning which may permanently close vast areas of fishing waters nationwide. This is to be completed by December 9, 2009.

Dave Pfeiffer, President of Shimano American Corporation explained, "In spite of extensive submissions from the recreational fishing community to the Task Force in person and in writing, they failed to include any mention of the over one million jobs or the 6o million anglers which may be affected by the new policies coast to coast. Input from the environmental groups who want to put us off the water was adopted into the report verbatim - the key points we submitted as an industry were ignored."

Recreational fishing generates a $125 billion annual economy in the United States and supports jobs in every state according to government figures. Through the Sport Fish Restoration program, anglers have provided more than $5 billion through excise taxes on fishing tackle to fishery conservation and education for decades.

In addition to the economic aspects, anglers lead the nation in volunteer conservation efforts on behalf of improving fish habitat, water quality and related environmental areas.

"There was no mention of the fishery conservation efforts which anglers have led for over 50 years in every state - an environmental success story that has no equal in the world", said Phil Morlock, Director, Environmental Affairs for Shimano. "The Task Force did not make any distinction between the dramatic differences between harmful commercial fishing harvest methods and recreational fishing, even though we spelled it out for them in detail."

Claiming to be the result of a public consultation process the report states, "Having considered a broad range of public comments, this report reflects the requests and concerns of all interested parties."

The original White House memo and not surprisingly the Task Force report contains multiple references to developing a national policy where Great Lakes and coastal regions are managed, "consistent with international law, including customary international law as reflected in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea" - a 300-page treaty the U.S. has never ratified.

"We question what implications there will be for state authority and jurisdiction in the Great Lakes and coastal regions if the U.S. adopts the U.N. Treaty," said Pfeiffer.

The report makes it clear that future authority for implementing the policy for coastal and inland waters will fall under White House jurisdiction with a new National Ocean Council comprised of over 20 federal agencies at Cabinet Secretary or Deputy Secretary level. No reference to Congressional jurisdiction is indicated.

"This significant change in U.S. policy direction is the result of a 90-day fire drill process as ordered by the President that, not surprisingly, lacks balance, clarity and quality in the end product," said Morlock. "People who simply want to take their kids fishing on public waters deserve better from their government," he added.

Shimano is joining with other members of the recreational fishing industry to urge anglers to contact their members of Congress and the administration to request this process be required to adopt the economic, conservation and social contributions of recreational fishing as key elements of the policy. It is critical that we ensure Congressional oversight and state jurisdiction and management continues.

E-letters can be sent to the administration and members of Congress by visiting KeepAmericaFishing.org. The future of fishing is in your hands

trentnaq

The US did sign the "Law of the Sea Treaty" (LOST)in 1994, but never ratified it. There is a new move to get it implemented, quickly, which would present severe economic consequences for American marine interests. Natural resources would be "taxed" to pay land-locked countries with no access to marine resources.A UN tribunal will be controlling our natural resources. Naturally, our leader supports it 110% along with other minds in Washington that know< better than we do. what is best for us!

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Int...ions/wm470.cfm
"Twenty-five years after President Reagan rejected it, the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST) remains a threat to U.S. interests. Reagan's objections to LOST have been neither addressed nor resolved. LOST is a flawed treaty that should not be ratified, much less funded prior to ratification."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ion-un-treaty/
But critics say clauses built into the treaty could directly harm American interests. They say it could force the U.S. to comply with unspecified environmental codes, and that the treaty gives environmental activists the legal standing to sue over river pollution and shut down industry, simply because rivers feed into the sea.

The treaty allows environmental groups to bring lawsuits to the Law of the Sea Tribunal in Germany, a panel of 21 U.N. judges who would have say over pollution levels in American rivers. Their rulings would have the force law in the U.S., according to a reading in a 2008 Supreme Court decision by Justice John Paul Stevens.

"You've got an unaccountable tribunal that will surely be stacked with jurists hostile to our interests," said Chris Horner, author of "Red Hot Lies," a book critical of environmentalists. "This would never pass muster if the Senate held an open, public debate about this."

Legal experts also warn that the treaty demands aid for landlocked countries that lack the access and technology to mine the deep seas -- and that it might not even benefit the U.S. at all.

"You have to pay royalties on the value of anything you extract (from the deep seabed), those royalties to be distributed as the new bureaucracy sees fit, primarily to landlocked countries and underdeveloped countries," said Steven Groves, a fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation. American money would also go to fund the International Seabed Authority, which Groves warned "would have the potential to become the most massive U.N. bureaucracy on the planet."

"The whole theory of the treaty is that the world's oceans and everything below them are the common heritage of mankind," said Groves. "Very socialist."

Any nation that is party to the treaty can have a seat on the tribunal and seabed authority -- even ones that don't have access to the sea. The current vice president of the tribunal represents Austria, a landlocked nation that hasn't had a sea berth since the Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved in the First World War.

Some legal experts worry that without ratification, the U.S. will lose a seat at the table as maritime law continues to be codified and resources get divvied up. But opponents note that many of the benefits offered the U.S., such as navigation rights, are already international custom, and that the U.S. has effected the treaty without being party to it. President Reagan's initial opposition on the basis of seabed laws forced the rewriting of the original treaty in 1994, which led the U.S. to sign it, but not to ratify it.

Its complexity, however, still beguiles even experts, who say it is unlikely to be understood when brought to a vote in the Senate.

"The thing is about 150 pages long -- meaning there are exactly zero people in the Senate who have read it," said Groves.

trentnaq

Obama Administration Ignores $125 Billion Sportfishing Industry in New Ocean and Great Lakes Management Policy
Alexandria, VA – October 5, 2009 – A sweeping oceans and Great Lakes management policy document proposed by the Obama Administration will have a significant impact on the sportfishing industry, America’s saltwater anglers and the nation’s coastal communities. The draft policy, the Interim Report of the Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force, issued on September 17, will govern federal Pacific and Atlantic Ocean waters and Great Lakes resource conservation and management and will coordinate these efforts among federal, state and local agencies. This past June, President Obama created the Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force, led by the Chair of the Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ), to develop a draft national policy and implementation strategy for conserving and managing the United States ocean territory and the Great Lakes.

“While we are by and large supportive of the intent of the Interim Report, the American Sportfishing Association (ASA) has serious concerns regarding the direction the administration is taking regarding how to manage our nation’s marine and freshwater public resources, choosing a tone of preservation over conservation,” said ASA Vice President Gordon Robertson. “We are very disappointed that the task force failed to recognize recreational fishing’s significant conservation, economic and social contributions and include recreational fishing as a key policy component. The sportfishing community strongly supports healthy and abundant ocean, coastal and fishery resources which have a direct impact on sustaining vibrant local coastal communities. Outdoor recreation, especially recreational fishing, is an integral part of coastal economies throughout this nation and therefore should be included as a priority in any national ocean policy.”

“In regards to recreational fishing specifically, it is a long-standing policy of the federal government to allow public access to public lands and waters for recreational purposes consistent with sound conservation including the nation’s wildlife refuges, national forests, and national parks and should be reflected in a national policy for the oceans and Great Lakes. In fact, the use of public resources by recreational anglers is essential to the conservation model used in this country for fish and wildlife management,” said ASA Ocean Resource Policy Director Patty Doerr.

Doerr further said, “As with any good federal policy decision, discussions about measures that may restrict public access to public resources must involve an open public process, have a solid scientific basis and incorporate specific guidelines on implementation and follow-up. We are very concerned about the abbreviated 90 day timeline which forced the Task Force to issue this policy document prematurely. The implications of such a policy are vast and nationwide. Therefore, the review process should be very deliberate and go well beyond the 30 days public review and comment period which started on September 17.” The Task Force's Interim Report is currently under a 30-day public review and comment period.

Since 1950, with the passage of the Sport Fish Restoration Act, anglers and the sportfishing industry have provided the bulk of funding for fisheries conservation and management in the United States through fishing license fees and the federal manufacturers excise tax on recreational fishing equipment. According to NOAA Fisheries, saltwater anglers contribute over $82 billion annually to the economy. Despite taking only three percent of the saltwater fish harvested each year, the recreational sector creates nearly half the jobs coming from domestic saltwater fisheries.

Robertson concluded, “The sportfishing community believes that recreational activities such as responsibly-managed and regulated recreational fishing deserve full consideration and incorporation in the administration’s ocean and Great Lakes policy. Providing the angling public with access to public resources is no less important than conserving those resources. Therefore, we urge the Task Force to include recreational fishing as a separate and distinct ocean and Great Lakes priority. We also urge all anglers and recreational fishing supports to make their voices heard.”

In July, met with White House staff to provide comments to CEQ and the Task Force. In August, ASA staff met with Department of Interior staff to discuss their involvement in the Task Force and provide ASA’s perspective on various ocean policy issues, including marine spatial planning and marine reserves.

trentnaq

Stop drift in oceans policy

By Frank Muller-Karger, Special to the Times

In Florida, our beaches and coastal waters attract over 33 million tourists each year. Our marine fishing, boating, tourism, recreation and ocean transport industries bring over $400 billion every year to our state. And nationally, about every one in six of our jobs is related to these marine industries. It is clear that our coastal and marine environments are vital to the economy of our country and state.

Yet our oceans and coasts are governed by more than 140 laws and 20 agencies, each with different goals and mandates. Our coastal ecosystems are threatened by overfishing, coastal development, pollution, climate change and uncoordinated government policies. Many of the serious challenges we face in maintaining the health of these marine ecosystems and economies stem from a fundamental mismatch between the way natural systems work and the way we manage the activities that affect them.

Five years ago, the U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy and the Pew Oceans Commission recommended to the president and Congress a number of steps that would both rebuild and allow continued use of our natural marine resources in a sustainable manner. Both commissions concluded that we needed an overarching national ocean policy that streamlines the present bureaucratic mess to avoid serious disruptions of marine ecosystems. But this system has not been fixed. Every day it is more difficult to protect the resources that we want to continue using and enjoying.

There are several critical steps that the Obama administration and Congress need to take to move our nation forward and out of the present situation. First, they need to state explicitly that it is the policy of the United States to protect, maintain and restore the health of ocean, coastal and Great Lakes ecosystems and to enhance the sustainability of ocean and coastal economies. This policy should require that federal agencies administer U.S. funding and laws to the fullest extent possible consistent with this national strategy.

A key approach to getting this done is using an ecosystem-based management approach. This considers the effects of our activities on all critical components of coastal and ocean ecosystems, including human and nonhuman species. It means managing resources that span neighboring jurisdictions, such as between federal and state waters, or between state waters. It also means understanding how our activities on land affect our coastal waters, and managing accordingly. This is simply common sense.

A new paradigm for managing our coastal and marine areas also needs to consider the effects of multiple activities on each other, including tourism and recreation, fisheries, transportation, urban development, renewable energy, oil and gas development, and other potential uses. A new national ocean policy should be based on understanding how one activity affects resources used in another activity. Understanding requires strengthening federal investments in ocean and coastal science and a renewed effort in science education, enabling public and management decisions to be based on the best information.

Our nation is now undergoing a crucial transition. We are re-evaluating the core principles that guide our economic and environmental policies. As our leaders steer the nation through this process, they need to recognize that our oceans and coasts maintain a strong economy and high quality of life for all Americans. The present lack of coordination at the federal level has serious impacts. If we don't fix this, the combined effects of all pressures on our ocean and coastal resources will have a negative impact on our jobs and the economy in Florida.

President Barack Obama's Ocean Task Force has released an interim report in which it proposes to use an ecosystem-based management approach that is based on science. The task force is looking for public input on their strategies. The Ocean Task Force's next public hearing is on Monday afternoon in New Orleans. Members of the public can join the meeting from Florida via phone or live Webcast. Public participation in this process is important to make sure that a workable implementation framework is put forward by the task force in their report to the president, due by Dec. 9. Our participation will further encourage the president to implement wise and strong national policies, and persuade Congress to codify these policies in the law. For more information, visit http://www.white house.gov/oceans.

Frank Muller-Karger is a professor in oceanography in the College of Marine Science at the University of South Florida and a former member of the U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy.

trentnaq

If You want to know what there trying to do read above four entries.

big money

Nationwide Public Input in 30 Focking days?? Are you kidding me? This is as rediculous as the healthcare debate. "we know you won't like it, so we're gonna try to get it by before you catch on"....

Sea Daddy

Good job trentnaq. We have to make these rie-dam-diculous issues known to the general public, just like you did because alot of Americans are not hearing and are not being informed on what this administration is trying to fly under the radar, like more regulation on our fishing, hunting, ect.. We HAVE to make our voices heard....to at least slow down these attempts by this admin before they are passed into law and also to make it to the next election where we HAVE to vote all of these left-wing radicals from their post.

I personally emailed one of my state representatives, Mr. Roger Wicker, concerning the vote on Cass Sunstein as Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, one of many left-wing radicals this admin has chosen as a "czar" to the president. Sunstein and the president have had a very close relationship for many years. Although Sunstein was voted in 57-40, Mr. Wicker returned my email, stating that he voted against Sunstein and thanked me for "having the benefit on my veiws on this issue" and for contacting him regarding this matter...... If we do not let our representatives know where we stand, they will not know. I suggest everyone do the same in contacting their representatives.

For you that do not know who this is:
http://conservativethoughts.us/2009/...cass-sunstein/

Also some of his quotes:
http://stopsunstein.com/media/pdf/Su...ote%20file.pdf

We have to make a stand or we will face losing our freedoms we all enjoy.

__________________
"Fast is fine. Accuracy is final. You need to learn to shoot slow, real fast."---Wyatt Earp

trentnaq

than you. I say you copy and paste and send it to all of the anglers you know! we need to get this out now!!!!!!!!

inletsurf

Yes.

inletsurf

Remember that Public Input to the feds really means "sit there in the chair and pretend like you hear all the angry people. when you are done check the box"